I've only played 3, VC and SA and have 4 on my very long queue.

GTA5 looks 'pretty', but from what I've seen its lost alot of the heart & soul of the earlier (And dare-I-say better) entries.

In VC & SA, I missed the original music on the radio stations in 3. I felt it not only helped fully flesh-out the satirical elements of the world and gameplay but also made that world something more unique and authentic on its own right. I already have my 80's music favs imprinted to other memories thank-you-very-much.

I've been waiting to see if Rockstar would realize what a massive potential they have in the GTA IP and just do something radical with it or at least spin it off.

Think: A modern conventional RPG/Sim-like counterpoint to something like the later gen Final Fantasy games in a fully explorable city. You could go more along the sim route and have a character(s) with a selectable conventional job and that job's 'winning' endpoint or just being a small-time scumbag and working your way up through the gangs and the syndicates into the role of a 'respectable' legitimate elected official.

And by 'more' sim, I mean ALLOUT sim. Include the minutiae of buraeucratic laws, rules and regulations and BS that makes everyday life so much fun, but with an outraegeous and GTA-esque slant. *g*

What I'm imagining would only be palatable to developers as a online-only MMORPG though.

Also: An online graphically 1st person explorable representation of a city (Think New York, Paris or London) with storefronts (Taco Bell's, Office Max's, Best Buy's etc.) paid for by their respective owners ala a sort of ingame advertisement, but also maybe linkable to ingame/outofgame purchases? Maybe other faux storefronts businesses can purchase for a very small fee to get their signage in the game. Heh, contemporary class ideas: gangster, thug, cop (paladin equiv?), bumster, student, knackster (an evil geek), politician (wizard or lord equiv?). A few of those are some of the 'anti' classes of course.

Just a thought/idea. I'm about 80% retrogamer anyways. These plastic/cartoony/gritless and scripted games from the later generations of developers don't appeal to me.

Beamer wrote on Jun 29, 2021, 08:51:

VaranDragon wrote on Jun 29, 2021, 07:16:
Clearly this is a matter of subjective opinion. I hated all of the main characters, and all of their interactions too. The difference is, that it made sense to me to hate them and their miserable lives and companions. They were criminals and bad people. All of them. It was a deliberate choice to make them unlikable. In my case the choice to make them unlikable worked. In yours, well it obviously didn't.

Because Michael, Franklin, and Trevor weren't unlikable relative to the rest of the world. The game took great efforts to show that Michael was driven to this by being henpecked by an adulterous wife, slutty daughter, and worthless son. That a life of crime was the only way to get some control back in his life.

The protagonists may have been unlikable, but far less so than the side characters, which hinders that point. Not to mention, Trevor became kind of beloved and a regular sight at PAX.

Someone should get Beamer to read this post... wait... this is Beamer writing this post? Is he arguing with his earlier take?

VaranDragon wrote on Jun 29, 2021, 07:16:
Clearly this is a matter of subjective opinion. I hated all of the main characters, and all of their interactions too. The difference is, that it made sense to me to hate them and their miserable lives and companions. They were criminals and bad people. All of them. It was a deliberate choice to make them unlikable. In my case the choice to make them unlikable worked. In yours, well it obviously didn't.

Because Michael, Franklin, and Trevor weren't unlikable relative to the rest of the world. The game took great efforts to show that Michael was driven to this by being henpecked by an adulterous wife, slutty daughter, and worthless son. That a life of crime was the only way to get some control back in his life.

The protagonists may have been unlikable, but far less so than the side characters, which hinders that point. Not to mention, Trevor became kind of beloved and a regular sight at PAX.

Clearly this is a matter of subjective opinion. I hated all of the main characters, and all of their interactions too. The difference is, that it made sense to me to hate them and their miserable lives and companions. They were criminals and bad people. All of them. It was a deliberate choice to make them unlikable. In my case the choice to make them unlikable worked. In yours, well it obviously didn't.

VaranDragon wrote on Jun 29, 2021, 02:58:

Beamer wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:51:

Sepharo wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:39:
What did you guys think of the previous four GTAs' writing?

Don't much remember, but I think garbage. I don't remember GTAIII. I didn't play Vice City. San Andreas felt dumb to me, particularly because you found your way to being a billionaire that owned a casino yet you kept having to go back to "save the block," but I get that's the genre it was going for. Didn't play IV.

V, though. Everyone in Michael's life sucked. It wasn't funny sucking, it was just sucking. And I know some here get angry when I say this, but every single woman was terrible in that game. Not a single female character had a single redeeming quality. Basically, you learned that the women in Michael's family slept around a lot. Oooo, good satire! On top of it, Michael himself mostly sucked. No fun in him, or Franklin. Don't get me started on how terribly written, how unoriginal, and how unfunny the son was. Any time spent around him in a mission was a chore. I'd rather have stabbed myself in the eyes than spent another minute with anyone in Michael's family, which perhaps was the point, but making a video game unpleasant to play because you're (in the beginning) forced to be around unpleasant characters as a statement on how unpleasant being in your late 40s is just isn't fun. Also, I don't think that was the point, because the game definitely thought Michael's family was funny.

Saints Row 1 initially also felt way too stupid and try hard. "Freckle Bitches" was one of the worst gags, or "satirical jokes" I can remember in a game. But it moved way the hell beyond GTA in 2. And 3. And probably 4.

GTA V seemed to think it had something to say about life, but "let's film that actress having sex until she kills herself trying to get the tape back" wasn't really a good point, particularly when she's the butt of the joke and supposed to be seen as overreacting. I bring that one up because it keeps with the theme of "women in this game are bad because they have a lot of sex, yet no one has sex with our 3 protagonists."

For someone who really disliked GTAV you really remember a shit-ton of it. Seriously, most games that grate me, I just stop playing. Whether it was the story, or the characters, or most commonly the terrible gameplay. GTAV for all it's "terrible" characters, clearly made an impact on you. So much so, that here you are arguing with some anonymous people on the inter-webs about it in great detail if I might add. Maybe you just have an eidetic memory. I completely forgot how terrible the characters were in GTAV until you brought it up, then I remembered, and it brought a smile to my face, since that was clearly the point. GTAV was great because it was SOOOO over the top. It was basically tongue in cheek, from the get to, but portrayed in a very serious way. I'd definitely argue that it wasn't for everyone, and I doubt it would work today, also the whole open-world driving-flying thing will probably feel boring unless you flesh out all the other parts equally well.

Something so pitiful does leave an impression, especially when people love it

I can also tell you the lyrics of a handful of Limp Bizkit songs, despite never listening to them. You just had to be around them because they were popular.

Which is a good analogy, because GTAV shared a similar wit and world view as Fred Durst.

As for why I played it, well, the core gameplay is fun, and with most open world games, missions (particularly story ones) are, what, 10% of your play time?

Beamer wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:51:

Sepharo wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:39:
What did you guys think of the previous four GTAs' writing?

Don't much remember, but I think garbage. I don't remember GTAIII. I didn't play Vice City. San Andreas felt dumb to me, particularly because you found your way to being a billionaire that owned a casino yet you kept having to go back to "save the block," but I get that's the genre it was going for. Didn't play IV.

V, though. Everyone in Michael's life sucked. It wasn't funny sucking, it was just sucking. And I know some here get angry when I say this, but every single woman was terrible in that game. Not a single female character had a single redeeming quality. Basically, you learned that the women in Michael's family slept around a lot. Oooo, good satire! On top of it, Michael himself mostly sucked. No fun in him, or Franklin. Don't get me started on how terribly written, how unoriginal, and how unfunny the son was. Any time spent around him in a mission was a chore. I'd rather have stabbed myself in the eyes than spent another minute with anyone in Michael's family, which perhaps was the point, but making a video game unpleasant to play because you're (in the beginning) forced to be around unpleasant characters as a statement on how unpleasant being in your late 40s is just isn't fun. Also, I don't think that was the point, because the game definitely thought Michael's family was funny.

Saints Row 1 initially also felt way too stupid and try hard. "Freckle Bitches" was one of the worst gags, or "satirical jokes" I can remember in a game. But it moved way the hell beyond GTA in 2. And 3. And probably 4.

GTA V seemed to think it had something to say about life, but "let's film that actress having sex until she kills herself trying to get the tape back" wasn't really a good point, particularly when she's the butt of the joke and supposed to be seen as overreacting. I bring that one up because it keeps with the theme of "women in this game are bad because they have a lot of sex, yet no one has sex with our 3 protagonists."

For someone who really disliked GTAV you really remember a shit-ton of it. Seriously, most games that grate me, I just stop playing. Whether it was the story, or the characters, or most commonly the terrible gameplay. GTAV for all it's "terrible" characters, clearly made an impact on you. So much so, that here you are arguing with some anonymous people on the inter-webs about it in great detail if I might add. Maybe you just have an eidetic memory. I completely forgot how terrible the characters were in GTAV until you brought it up, then I remembered, and it brought a smile to my face, since that was clearly the point. GTAV was great because it was SOOOO over the top. It was basically tongue in cheek, from the get to, but portrayed in a very serious way. I'd definitely argue that it wasn't for everyone, and I doubt it would work today, also the whole open-world driving-flying thing will probably feel boring unless you flesh out all the other parts equally well.

This comment was edited on Jun 29, 2021, 03:16.

Steele Johnson wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 19:16:
You'd think that Rockstar would get the message that we all hate the clunky controls scheme that they always implement. But even RDR2 was horrible. It makes me not care so much about their games

They can't hear the controls complaints over all the money they are rolling around in.

You'd think that Rockstar would get the message that we all hate the clunky controls scheme that they always implement. But even RDR2 was horrible. It makes me not care so much about their games

yonder wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 18:12:

BIGtrouble77 wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:53:

yonder wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:46:

bhcompy wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 14:22:
Probably play it, but I'm really disappointed with Rockstar for not supporting GTA5 or RDR2 with single player expansions, so I'm not really excited about it like I was for GTA5

You're disappointed that you got dozens and dozens of hours of SP content in the base game and didn't have to pay extra to get a little bit more?

*Disappointed*?

And they say gamers are overly entitled...

I don't think one is entitled by having an opinion of Rockstar's business model.

"really disappointed with Rockstar" is an opinion that reflects a sense of entitlement.

No, not really. It reflects a sense of being a consumer with expectations. Rockstar has continued to support GTA5, just supported it in ways that disappoint me. I don't give one shit about GTAO. These are my choices as a consumer.

BIGtrouble77 wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:53:

yonder wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:46:

bhcompy wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 14:22:
Probably play it, but I'm really disappointed with Rockstar for not supporting GTA5 or RDR2 with single player expansions, so I'm not really excited about it like I was for GTA5

You're disappointed that you got dozens and dozens of hours of SP content in the base game and didn't have to pay extra to get a little bit more?

*Disappointed*?

And they say gamers are overly entitled...

I don't think one is entitled by having an opinion of Rockstar's business model.

"really disappointed with Rockstar" is an opinion that reflects a sense of entitlement.

yonder wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:46:

bhcompy wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 14:22:
Probably play it, but I'm really disappointed with Rockstar for not supporting GTA5 or RDR2 with single player expansions, so I'm not really excited about it like I was for GTA5

You're disappointed that you got dozens and dozens of hours of SP content in the base game and didn't have to pay extra to get a little bit more?

*Disappointed*?

And they say gamers are overly entitled...

I don't think one is entitled by having an opinion of Rockstar's business model.

Sepharo wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:39:
What did you guys think of the previous four GTAs' writing?

Don't much remember, but I think garbage. I don't remember GTAIII. I didn't play Vice City. San Andreas felt dumb to me, particularly because you found your way to being a billionaire that owned a casino yet you kept having to go back to "save the block," but I get that's the genre it was going for. Didn't play IV.

V, though. Everyone in Michael's life sucked. It wasn't funny sucking, it was just sucking. And I know some here get angry when I say this, but every single woman was terrible in that game. Not a single female character had a single redeeming quality. Basically, you learned that the women in Michael's family slept around a lot. Oooo, good satire! On top of it, Michael himself mostly sucked. No fun in him, or Franklin. Don't get me started on how terribly written, how unoriginal, and how unfunny the son was. Any time spent around him in a mission was a chore. I'd rather have stabbed myself in the eyes than spent another minute with anyone in Michael's family, which perhaps was the point, but making a video game unpleasant to play because you're (in the beginning) forced to be around unpleasant characters as a statement on how unpleasant being in your late 40s is just isn't fun. Also, I don't think that was the point, because the game definitely thought Michael's family was funny.

Saints Row 1 initially also felt way too stupid and try hard. "Freckle Bitches" was one of the worst gags, or "satirical jokes" I can remember in a game. But it moved way the hell beyond GTA in 2. And 3. And probably 4.

GTA V seemed to think it had something to say about life, but "let's film that actress having sex until she kills herself trying to get the tape back" wasn't really a good point, particularly when she's the butt of the joke and supposed to be seen as overreacting. I bring that one up because it keeps with the theme of "women in this game are bad because they have a lot of sex, yet no one has sex with our 3 protagonists."

yonder wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 17:46:
You're disappointed that you got dozens and dozens of hours of SP content in the base game and didn't have to pay extra to get a little bit more?

*Disappointed*?

And they say gamers are overly entitled...

When we got hundreds of hours out of Skyrim, "dozens and dozens" is laughable.

bhcompy wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 14:22:
Probably play it, but I'm really disappointed with Rockstar for not supporting GTA5 or RDR2 with single player expansions, so I'm not really excited about it like I was for GTA5

You're disappointed that you got dozens and dozens of hours of SP content in the base game and didn't have to pay extra to get a little bit more?

*Disappointed*?

And they say gamers are overly entitled...

What did you guys think of the previous four GTAs' writing?

If they give a console an exclusivity period then I will skip this release as well.

Is it going to have cars?

bhcompy wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 14:22:
Probably play it, but I'm really disappointed with Rockstar for not supporting GTA5 or RDR2 with single player expansions, so I'm not really excited about it like I was for GTA5

I kind of agree. I really, really can't believe we didn't get an RDR2 expansion, particularly with how well set up it was for an American Nightmare 2. That said, I definitely got my money's worth out of the single player of GTA5 and RDR2.

That said, to others' point, I feel as if the writing in GTA5 was beyond horrible. It was unacceptable bunk gibberish. When the only likeable character is your "psychopath," you have a major issue. What it thought was "satire" just kind of felt like when the kids on South Park wrote a book - it was what a bunch of 9 year olds would think was deep, provocative, and dirty.

Yet some RDR2 was poignant and melancholy and excellently written with a fantastically defined world. By the same guy. Who I also think did a great job with Max Payne 3.

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 13:29:
I played through GTA1 2 and 3 fully, then basically missed the rest until GTA5. Played through (decent sale price) GTA5 fully expecting some great writing, based on the reviews and comments, and I was thoroughly underwhelmed.

GTA5 was hot garbage. Everything about it was mediocre. The big point about the character Trevor being a psycopath was dumb because it was clearly written by someone who hadn't so much as read a Wikipedia article on psychopathy.

It's staying power is in multiplayer alone and the rampant cheating that goes on in it. It's become a metagame unto itself.

KezClone wrote on Jun 28, 2021, 16:08:
I'd suggest '70s New York as a gritty, funky, heroin addled inspiration.

The soundtrack alone would be amazing.

They've already brilliantly done the '80s Miami thing.

I like this one. But wouldn't that be sort of similar to GTA 3?