Bodolza wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 18:15:
Wait, are we now calling time-limited trials F2P? I guess that makes every game on Steam F2P, now.

DCS World is still technically a free to play title. The P-51 and Su-25 modules are free indefinitely.

RogueSix wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 18:20:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 14:27:
Another thing that DCS world needs to overcome is the "one plane is $60" stigma.

I don't think that they need to "overcome" that stigma at all. Flight sim enthusiasts are used to these prices for study level quality aircraft. The best Boeing planes for Microsoft Flight Simulator (and Prepar3d) from PMDG have always cost $130 and more. Some of the jets in DCS World are also more expensive than $60. The new A-10, the F-16 and the F/A-18 are all selling north of $70.
The only stuff that is overpriced with DCS in my opinion are the maps but otoh Eagle Dynamics is once again pretty much following the pricing of scenery for MSFS/XP11/P3D here. Depending on coverage, a price between $35 and $50 is (unfortunately) perfectly normal for decent scenery in the flight sim genre.

Anyway, the DCS planes, their flight models, the avionics and the complex, intricate systems take ages to finish.
An incredible amount of development time, effort and real engineering work is going into these projects. There are also licensing costs. The prices for some modules are high but not unreasonable at all. You can spend hundreds of hours with a single module if you really want to become a good sim pilot. The USAF uses the new A-10 for training. It's that good and accurate.

Flight sim enthusiasts know all this and they are usually people with an attention span much greater than an Ace Combat gamer kiddie. The last thing that DCS needs is cheaper modules and an influx of whiny gamer kiddies who think it'd be way kewl to fly a F-16 only to complain 24/7 that everything is TEH HARD and not fair and that the game SUXX AZZ... culminating in review bombing DCS World into oblivion and causing real harm.
DCS World is a sim for people with a brain, a willingness to actually RTFM and it all requires a lot of patience, study, trial & error, refinement, honing your skills etc.

However, there is good news for the gamer kiddies in so far as Eagle Dynamics is still working on Flaming Cliffs 4 which, like FC3 (a module less enthusiastic people could also play right now), will have one price for a decent variety of much simpler aircraft for a more casual approach to a combat flight sim.

If Eagle Dynamics doesn't want to attract Ace Combat script kiddies, maybe they shouldn't make an Ace Combat-style trailer. This trailer has more explosions than a Michael Bay movie.

jdreyer wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 14:27:
Another thing that DCS world needs to overcome is the "one plane is $60" stigma.

I don't think that they need to "overcome" that stigma at all. Flight sim enthusiasts are used to these prices for study level quality aircraft. The best Boeing planes for Microsoft Flight Simulator (and Prepar3d) from PMDG have always cost $130 and more. Some of the jets in DCS World are also more expensive than $60. The new A-10, the F-16 and the F/A-18 are all selling north of $70.
The only stuff that is overpriced with DCS in my opinion are the maps but otoh Eagle Dynamics is once again pretty much following the pricing of scenery for MSFS/XP11/P3D here. Depending on coverage, a price between $35 and $50 is (unfortunately) perfectly normal for decent scenery in the flight sim genre.

Anyway, the DCS planes, their flight models, the avionics and the complex, intricate systems take ages to finish.
An incredible amount of development time, effort and real engineering work is going into these projects. There are also licensing costs. The prices for some modules are high but not unreasonable at all. You can spend hundreds of hours with a single module if you really want to become a good sim pilot. The USAF uses the new A-10 for training. It's that good and accurate.

Flight sim enthusiasts know all this and they are usually people with an attention span much greater than an Ace Combat gamer kiddie. The last thing that DCS needs is cheaper modules and an influx of whiny gamer kiddies who think it'd be way kewl to fly a F-16 only to complain 24/7 that everything is TEH HARD and not fair and that the game SUXX AZZ... culminating in review bombing DCS World into oblivion and causing real harm.
DCS World is a sim for people with a brain, a willingness to actually RTFM and it all requires a lot of patience, study, trial & error, refinement, honing your skills etc.

However, there is good news for the gamer kiddies in so far as Eagle Dynamics is still working on Flaming Cliffs 4 which, like FC3 (a module less enthusiastic people could also play right now), will have one price for a decent variety of much simpler aircraft for a more casual approach to a combat flight sim.

Wait, are we now calling time-limited trials F2P? I guess that makes every game on Steam F2P, now.

Tom wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 13:39:
If you use Chuck's guides you can be up and running with a new aircraft in a matter of hours, or even less than an hour or two if you have prior experience with other aircraft.

Anyone considering doing a timed free trial of a new aircraft should read through its guide first to hit the ground running.

There are also people who just don't care to ever learn the cold start procedure. You can set up the mission to do a hot start, or just press Win+Home to use the auto start sequence anytime you find yourself in a cold aircraft.

I was today years old when I learned the Win+Home trick.

BigShot wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 13:13:
A generous offer, and certainly appreciated.
It's a shame that other publishers don't stand behind their work like this. I'm impressed by this company, Eagle Dynamics.
Thanks guys & much respect!

I think the difference is that a lot of games can be completed and fully experienced in two weeks of unlimited play. Even large and sprawling games like Skyrim can be "completed" within that timeframe with a bit of concerted effort. With DCS world, two weeks is the bare minimum to become competent in the aircraft, never mind being able to enjoy it and employ it competently in missions and in online competition (if that's your thing).
Another thing that DCS world needs to overcome is the "one plane is $60" stigma. "I can get all the planes in Ace Combat!" is a comparison that does them no favors, even though AC is 1/100th the complexity of DCS World aircraft.

Cutter wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 12:00:
Isn't two weeks about what it takes to learn how to take off in one of those planes?

I think that's kind of the point. It's going to take a couple of weeks just to learn such a complicated piece of machinery and get comfortable with it.

If you use Chuck's guides you can be up and running with a new aircraft in a matter of hours, or even less than an hour or two if you have prior experience with other aircraft.

Anyone considering doing a timed free trial of a new aircraft should read through its guide first to hit the ground running.

There are also people who just don't care to ever learn the cold start procedure. You can set up the mission to do a hot start, or just press Win+Home to use the auto start sequence anytime you find yourself in a cold aircraft.

Cutter wrote on Jun 11, 2021, 12:00:
Isn't two weeks about what it takes to learn how to take off in one of those planes?

I was about to say "Anyone want to come visit for 2 weeks to show me how to operate one of these vehicles?"

A generous offer, and certainly appreciated.
It's a shame that other publishers don't stand behind their work like this. I'm impressed by this company, Eagle Dynamics.
Thanks guys & much respect!

Isn't two weeks about what it takes to learn how to take off in one of those planes?