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25.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 13, 2021, 13:21
25.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 13, 2021, 13:21
Jun 13, 2021, 13:21
 
Private Inequity: How a Powerful Industry Conquered the Tax System
The I.R.S. almost never audits private equity firms, even as whistle-blowers have filed claims alleging illegal tax avoidance.

New rules were approved on Jan. 5, the day before the riot at the U.S. Capitol. Hardly anyone noticed.

Overseen by a senior Treasury official whose previous job involved helping the wealthy avoid taxes, the new regulations represented a major victory for private equity firms. They ensured that executives in the $4.5 trillion industry, whose leaders often measure their yearly pay in eight or nine figures, could avoid paying hundreds of millions in taxes.

It was the Trump administration’s farewell gift to the buyout industry...
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
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24.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 15:48
24.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 15:48
Jun 10, 2021, 15:48
 
Goofball🤪
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
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23.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 15:45
23.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 15:45
Jun 10, 2021, 15:45
 
Sorry, just wanted to be clear.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
22.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 15:45
22.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 15:45
Jun 10, 2021, 15:45
 
Thanks captain obvious
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
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21.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 15:37
21.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 15:37
Jun 10, 2021, 15:37
 
They are taxed. When you withdraw funds (unless it is Roth, which is post tax money).
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
20.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 15:29
20.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 15:29
Jun 10, 2021, 15:29
 
Gotta agree with Mr. Tact on this one.

If you want to see a Civil War , start taxing retirement accounts.
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
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19.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 15:07
19.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 15:07
Jun 10, 2021, 15:07
 
So, if you tax my 401k gains, does that mean I don't have to pay taxes when I make withdraws in retirement? Or do you want to tax me twice?

As for the impact, 10% of a 10% gain is effectively a 1% tax on the balance. Which can have a significant impact.

Listen, I'm all for taxing the rich. But I don't think I come anywhere close to qualifying. If you think I do, well ... we will just have to agree to disagree.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
18.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 14:43
18.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 14:43
Jun 10, 2021, 14:43
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 10, 2021, 14:30:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 10, 2021, 13:25:
I'm talking about taxing just the gains over 10K. So if you have 100K invested, and it pulls a 10% return, that's entirely tax free. If you have 200K invested and it pulls 20K, the first half is tax free, and half gets taxed at some amount. I figure if you have 200K invested, you can probably afford to pay taxes on the gains. And we can increase that for retirement accounts.

Dude. WAY too low. Every year but two since the 2008 recession my 401k portfolio had gains over 10k. If I had paid taxes on those gains it would have seriously impacted the amount I saved up for retirement. Probably enough that it would have kept me from retiring when I did.

You have to exclude IRAs and 401ks completely. We want to provide as many reasons as we can for as many people as possible to save sufficiently for their retirement. The only thing you need to fix is the loopholes which allow huge transfers into IRAs. Assuming you do that, no one should have an issue with excluding 401ks and IRAs. Unless it is a Roth it will be taxed when it is withdrawn.

People pay taxes on SS benefits, for example. $500K is way too high. Who is making annual gains of half a mil?

Certainly not me. Assuming a 10% return you'd need $5m(I wish!). Even so, I'd like to see a high minimum. The purpose of making the lower limit $500k is to make it clear no one's livelihood is being impacted.
1) I said we could make retirement accounts higher.
2) Maybe we just stop treating it separately from income all together. Lump it in with your salary, or treat it the same if you have none. We can apply income rules to it like the standard deduction.
3) If you payed 10% tax on your 10% gain after the first 10K on $200K principal, your portfolio grows by $19K instead of 20K. That hardly seems impactful.
4) If we're making $500K in returns (assuming you're not talking about the principal, which would be around $5M assuming 10% returns) the point at which we start taxing people, then we should do the same for income tax, because how is it any different? That would decimate the tax base, BTW.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
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17.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 14:30
17.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 14:30
Jun 10, 2021, 14:30
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 10, 2021, 13:25:
I'm talking about taxing just the gains over 10K. So if you have 100K invested, and it pulls a 10% return, that's entirely tax free. If you have 200K invested and it pulls 20K, the first half is tax free, and half gets taxed at some amount. I figure if you have 200K invested, you can probably afford to pay taxes on the gains. And we can increase that for retirement accounts.

Dude. WAY too low. Every year but two since the 2008 recession my 401k portfolio had gains over 10k. If I had paid taxes on those gains it would have seriously impacted the amount I saved up for retirement. Probably enough that it would have kept me from retiring when I did.

You have to exclude IRAs and 401ks completely. We want to provide as many reasons as we can for as many people as possible to save sufficiently for their retirement. The only thing you need to fix is the loopholes which allow huge transfers into IRAs. Assuming you do that, no one should have an issue with excluding 401ks and IRAs. Unless it is a Roth it will be taxed when it is withdrawn.

People pay taxes on SS benefits, for example. $500K is way too high. Who is making annual gains of half a mil?

Certainly not me. Assuming a 10% return you'd need $5m(I wish!). Even so, I'd like to see a high minimum. The purpose of making the lower limit $500k is to make it clear no one's livelihood is being impacted.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
16.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 13:30
16.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 13:30
Jun 10, 2021, 13:30
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 9, 2021, 13:09:
And don't forget things like home values would be included in wealth growth. So, if you buy a $150k house and the market booms increasing the value of your home to $200k, that additional $50k in value could be taxable. That would certainly screw over a bunch of non billionaires.
Property is usually already taxed though. And if the value goes up, the government reassess, and the taxes go up.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
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15.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 10, 2021, 13:25
15.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 10, 2021, 13:25
Jun 10, 2021, 13:25
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 23:33:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 23:20:
Maybe tax any gains greater than $10K annually?
I'm guessing you mean to exclude IRAs and 401ks -- even with those exclusions that figure is way too low. I'm guessing it would need to be more like $500k to $1m for a starting point.

I'm talking about taxing just the gains over 10K. So if you have 100K invested, and it pulls a 10% return, that's entirely tax free. If you have 200K invested and it pulls 20K, the first half is tax free, and half gets taxed at some amount. I figure if you have 200K invested, you can probably afford to pay taxes on the gains. And we can increase that for retirement accounts. People pay taxes on SS benefits, for example. $500K is way too high. Who is making annual gains of half a mil?
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
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14.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 9, 2021, 14:14
14.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 9, 2021, 14:14
Jun 9, 2021, 14:14
 
I'd agree with all of that Beamer, I did say "could".. As I said:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 23:08:
I'd have to see the rules on it before passing final judgment.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
13.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 9, 2021, 13:38
13.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 9, 2021, 13:38
Jun 9, 2021, 13:38
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 9, 2021, 13:09:
And don't forget things like home values would be included in wealth growth. So, if you buy a $150k house and the market booms increasing the value of your home to $200k, that additional $50k in value could be taxable. That would certainly screw over a bunch of non billionaires.

Property is generally excluded from suggestions of wealth taxes until it's realized because it's subjective. Unless the government wants to pay appraisers to appraise every home annually, there's no way to know if it's actually gone up. As opposed to stock portfolios or cash reserves.

Also, these types of suggestions usually begin at a minimum, such as $5MM in net worth, so yes, it would hit non-billionaires, but I don't feel most of us will cry too hard at someone with over $5MM in liquid assets paying a bit more in taxes.
12.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 9, 2021, 13:09
12.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 9, 2021, 13:09
Jun 9, 2021, 13:09
 
And don't forget things like home values would be included in wealth growth. So, if you buy a $150k house and the market booms increasing the value of your home to $200k, that additional $50k in value could be taxable. That would certainly screw over a bunch of non billionaires.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
11.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 9, 2021, 04:55
11.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 9, 2021, 04:55
Jun 9, 2021, 04:55
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 23:08:
NKD wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 12:23:
Tax evading billionaires, classic. Tax the ever loving shit out of these assholes and if they don't pay up, throw em in jail, confiscate all their rockets and sell them.
Warren Buffet has said on multiple occasions he should be taxed more. He's right. There is little doubt billionaires don't pay a lot of taxes, however very few of them are doing anything illegal.

I haven't read ProPublica's story, however the coverage about it I saw on a television segment did not impress me. It left me with the impression they were equating wealth growth with income. Guess what... when Bezo's stock portfolio goes up $50 billion he pays $0 taxes on that. You know what? I haven't paid any taxes on the gains my portfolio has made in the last two years either. Because it doesn't work that way. If any of us had bought $5,000 of Apple stock on the first day of trading in 2001 (1/3/2001) and just sat on it (and reinvested the dividends back into buying more stock) you'd have over $3.5m worth of Apple stock sitting in that brokerage account. And guess how much taxes you would have paid on that $3.5 million? That's right, $0.

Should we tax wealth growth? Maybe? I'd have to see the rules on it before passing final judgment. But I don't see that it matters much because I find it difficult to believe such legislation would ever be passed.

everything they did was on the up and up, and i personally have no problem with wealth growth being tax free - it's meaningless until you actually convert it to cash anyway, then it's taxable. but it doesn't stink any less that billionaires find ways to pay no taxes while their workers don't have the personal fortunes to write off these trivially massive losses. my idea? no tax breaks, including deductions, of any kind for anyone with more than a billion in assets. of course that'll never fly.
10.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 8, 2021, 23:33
10.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 8, 2021, 23:33
Jun 8, 2021, 23:33
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 23:20:
Maybe tax any gains greater than $10K annually?
I'm guessing you mean to exclude IRAs and 401ks -- even with those exclusions that figure is way too low. I'm guessing it would need to be more like $500k to $1m for a starting point.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
9.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 8, 2021, 23:26
9.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 8, 2021, 23:26
Jun 8, 2021, 23:26
 
Okay -- I went and looked at the ProPublica article... I was correct. They are talking about wealth growth vs actual income -- which they explain fairly clearly. They indicate from 2014 to 2018 Buffett, Bezos, Bloomberg, and Musk paid respectively, $23.7m, $973m, $292m, and $455m in taxes. So, yeah... pretty much a non-story IMHO. But whatever...
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
8.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 8, 2021, 23:20
8.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 8, 2021, 23:20
Jun 8, 2021, 23:20
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 23:08:
NKD wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 12:23:
Tax evading billionaires, classic. Tax the ever loving shit out of these assholes and if they don't pay up, throw em in jail, confiscate all their rockets and sell them.
Warren Buffet has said on multiple occasions he should be taxed more. He's right. There is little doubt billionaires don't pay a lot of taxes, however very few of them are doing anything illegal.

I haven't read ProPublica's story, however the coverage about it I saw on a television segment did not impress me. It left me with the impression they were equating wealth growth with income. Guess what... when Bezo's stock portfolio goes up $50 billion he pays $0 taxes on that. You know what? I haven't paid any taxes on the gains my portfolio has made in the last two years either. Because it doesn't work that way. If any of us had bought $5,000 of Apple stock on the first day of trading in 2001 (1/3/2001) and just sat on it (and reinvested the dividends back into buying more stock) you'd have over $3.5m worth of Apple stock sitting in that brokerage account. And guess how much taxes you would have paid on that $3.5 million? That's right, $0.

Should we tax wealth growth? Maybe? I'd have to see the rules on it before passing final judgment. But I don't see that it matters much because I find it difficult to believe such legislation would ever be passed.
Maybe tax any gains greater than $10K annually?
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
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7.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 8, 2021, 23:08
7.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 8, 2021, 23:08
Jun 8, 2021, 23:08
 
NKD wrote on Jun 8, 2021, 12:23:
Tax evading billionaires, classic. Tax the ever loving shit out of these assholes and if they don't pay up, throw em in jail, confiscate all their rockets and sell them.
Warren Buffet has said on multiple occasions he should be taxed more. He's right. There is little doubt billionaires don't pay a lot of taxes, however very few of them are doing anything illegal.

I haven't read ProPublica's story, however the coverage about it I saw on a television segment did not impress me. It left me with the impression they were equating wealth growth with income. Guess what... when Bezo's stock portfolio goes up $50 billion he pays $0 taxes on that. You know what? I haven't paid any taxes on the gains my portfolio has made in the last two years either. Because it doesn't work that way. If any of us had bought $5,000 of Apple stock on the first day of trading in 2001 (1/3/2001) and just sat on it (and reinvested the dividends back into buying more stock) you'd have over $3.5m worth of Apple stock sitting in that brokerage account. And guess how much taxes you would have paid on that $3.5 million? That's right, $0.

Should we tax wealth growth? Maybe? I'd have to see the rules on it before passing final judgment. But I don't see that it matters much because I find it difficult to believe such legislation would ever be passed.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
6.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Jun 8, 2021, 15:14
6.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Jun 8, 2021, 15:14
Jun 8, 2021, 15:14
 
No wonder nvidia sent China 30 million? worth of rtx 3000 cards a couple of months ago for their "cafes" . (Nudge Nudge Wink Wink)
Despite millions of customer waiting list long backlog across the world.

This comment was edited on Jun 8, 2021, 16:03.
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