16 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  ] Older
16.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 15:20
16.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 15:20
Jun 7, 2021, 15:20
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 7, 2021, 11:11:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 7, 2021, 11:09:
Guess what, they're building them there for the reasons I stated.
It's a nice clickbait headline though, "oh look, they're using water in the desert!"
whatever
So, you are taking their word that they are "striving" to be "net water positive"? Since when did you start taking multi-billion dollar corporations at their word?

Given that once they fill their closed cooling and production system that they'll actually losing very little water on a day-to-day basis, the "water positive" thing really does sound like marketing and PR. And building where there's preexisting infrastructure has lots of net benefits: experienced construction crews, raw material suppliers, a built-in pool of experienced employees, etc. Add to that a ready supply of electricity, cheap local taxes, and tectonic stability, it would be foolish for them to choose a location lacking all of these things. I'm glad the fab is being built in the US. It's just a bad idea from both consumer and defense positions to have most of the world's semiconductors built in Taiwan under the threat of invasion by the PLA.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
Avatar 22024
15.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 12:35
15.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 12:35
Jun 7, 2021, 12:35
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 7, 2021, 11:23:
All well and good -- and if accurate, then let's see the numbers.

Here's a number: Intel Water Facility Recycles 1 Billion Gallons . And as I posted earlier: TSMC is reusing nearly 87% of its water. Intel does not seem to publish a percentage number but as we can see from their past and ongoing projects they are very conscious of water consumption and water conservation. Regarding their packaging materials they strive to reach a 95% recycling ratio.

I would generally agree that AZ is a decent choice. The alternative locations up north that were suggested here seem more prone to natural disasters such as wildfires or blizzards or just extreme cold spells that could negatively impact power supply. A loss of power is typically a real bummer for semiconductor fabs since you can usually trash all wafers that were currently in production.
Of course the main reason for AZ for both Intel and TSMC is likely attractive financial conditions but the other reasons that were given also make sense. AZ might become to semiconductors what Austin is to the entertainment industry.
14.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 11:23
14.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 11:23
Jun 7, 2021, 11:23
 
All well and good -- and if accurate, then let's see the numbers. I hope you are right, I hope they aren't wasting water like madmen, I hope they are being conscientious and responsible corporate citizens. But I'm not going to take their word for it.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
13.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 11:19
13.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 11:19
Jun 7, 2021, 11:19
 
I've worked in semiconductor plants. They take great pride in recycling, reusing and reselling chemicals and natural resources.

It's a clickbait headline that if you read beyond the water explains why they are going to continue building plants at that location.
And the main reason is it's financially responsible to continue building there, whether it's tax incentives or pre-existing infrastructure that's designed to care and feed the semiconductor industry. Expect to see semiconductor plants continue to be placed in AZ.

And kindly refrain from placing words in my mouth.
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
Avatar 58135
12.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 11:11
12.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 11:11
Jun 7, 2021, 11:11
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 7, 2021, 11:09:
Guess what, they're building them there for the reasons I stated.
It's a nice clickbait headline though, "oh look, they're using water in the desert!"
whatever
So, you are taking their word that they are "striving" to be "net water positive"? Since when did you start taking multi-billion dollar corporations at their word?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
11.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 11:09
11.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 11:09
Jun 7, 2021, 11:09
 
Guess what, they're building them there for the reasons I stated.
It's a nice clickbait headline though, "oh look, they're using water in the desert!"
whatever
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
Avatar 58135
10.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 11:02
10.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 11:02
Jun 7, 2021, 11:02
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 7, 2021, 10:21:
It's obvious that no one bothered reading beyond the headline.
Semiconductor manufacturing has been a staple in Arizona for many decades. There's pre-existing infrastructure, workforce and supply chain.
It would be silly for them to go anywhere else.
I did read the article and I still think it is a bad decision. Supply chain? Really? What happened to the global supply chain? And just because something has been done for decades doesn't mean it was a good idea to begin with, I'm sure you are aware of that -- plenty of commercial and social examples to tell us that. The article also says:

Intel notes on its website that it is striving to achieve “net positive water use” in Arizona and that it has funded 15 water restoration projects that aim to benefit the state. “Once fully implemented, these projects will restore an estimated 937 million gallons each year,” the company says.
Uh huh. Sure. They "funded"? Does that mean they paid their taxes? If so, I am not impressed. If it was actually money they donated beyond their taxes then yes, I'll give them credit for that. But without context and complete information on how much water they are actually taking out of the system I'm going to guess their behavior is less positive than they claim.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
9.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 10:21
9.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 10:21
Jun 7, 2021, 10:21
 
It's obvious that no one bothered reading beyond the headline.
Semiconductor manufacturing has been a staple in Arizona for many decades. There's pre-existing infrastructure, workforce and supply chain.
It would be silly for them to go anywhere else.
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
Avatar 58135
8.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 10:07
8.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 10:07
Jun 7, 2021, 10:07
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 6, 2021, 17:01:
That's dumb opening those plants there when the northern US states - and Canada - have tons of freely available water.
Yeah, terrible decision making, and their earthquake excuse is laughable. A far more likely reason is cheap land and a business friendly AZ legislature which needs/wants the positive "job creation" news to counter their idiotic election audit news.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
7.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 08:13
7.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 08:13
Jun 7, 2021, 08:13
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 6, 2021, 18:09:
Why Intel, TSMC are building water-dependent chip plants in Arizona.

“A chip factory cannot shake, not even a microscopic amount,” he said, adding that they set such factories into the bedrock to keep them still. “Even a 0.5 Richter shake can ruin an entire crop of chips.”

Strange that ring-of-fire Taiwan has 60% of the market.

I suspect it is trivial to make a tremor proof building properly earthquake proof.. when you already invest $10bn into building one, what's a few millions to add the biggest springs and shock absorbers and whatever else is used to make it not shake. And I suspect in Taiwan, it is worth a lot more that you have people and suppliers nearby in a great living environment. Which is why more and more FABS go up there. Meanwhile, you'd have to pay me 2x as much to make me move into the USA, and 50x as much to make me live in the desert
Avatar 54727
6.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 7, 2021, 00:08
Tom
6.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 7, 2021, 00:08
Jun 7, 2021, 00:08
Tom
 
Simon Says wrote on Jun 6, 2021, 21:17:
What more could you want?
Free $$$ and lots of it, duh!
5.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 6, 2021, 21:17
5.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 6, 2021, 21:17
Jun 6, 2021, 21:17
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 6, 2021, 17:01:
That's dumb opening those plants there when the northern US states - and Canada - have tons of freely available water.


This^^ and in Ontario and Quebec electricity is dirt cheap, sitting on the Laurentian Plateau ( Canadian Shield ), it's one of the most stable geological features on Earth, workforce could probably easily be found on site and both provinces have direct access to oceangoing shipping lanes.

What more could you want?
4.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 6, 2021, 18:39
4.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 6, 2021, 18:39
Jun 6, 2021, 18:39
 
There is another article on Intel/TSMC AZ fabs on ArsTechnica. What I found interesting is that Intel is investing quite heavily in water restoration projects.
I don't know about Intel's water recycling rates but TSMC is already recycling something like 87% of its water in its Taiwan fabs and they have stated that 87% is not the end of the road. They want to improve this even further. That's why water supply isn't such a huge concern overall. Other factors play a role as well (from the Ars article):

But as Forrester research director Glenn O'Donnell told CNBC, chip-fabrication plants are similar to indoor swimming pools—"you need a lot to fill it, but you don't have to add much to keep it going."

[...]

What Arizona lacks in water, it makes up for with overall stability—the state is very seismically stable and does not suffer from hurricanes or wildfires, with low risks of other natural disasters such as tornadoes to boot. Building chip fabs without such guarantees is possible—for example, Intel has a large presence in Oregon—but chip fabricators on the West Coast must take extreme isolation measures, which Arizona plants don't require.
3.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 6, 2021, 18:11
3.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 6, 2021, 18:11
Jun 6, 2021, 18:11
 
Cutter wrote on Jun 6, 2021, 17:01:
That's dumb opening those plants there when the northern US states - and Canada - have tons of freely available water.

I bet they're planning to throw up a ton of solar panels to help manage their power consumption costs. AZ has 300+ days of sun per year. And given that most of their water is in a closed loop system, they won't be losing much to evaporation. I bet they're glad they didn't choose TX after that storm.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
Avatar 22024
2.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 6, 2021, 18:09
2.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 6, 2021, 18:09
Jun 6, 2021, 18:09
 
Why Intel, TSMC are building water-dependent chip plants in Arizona.

“A chip factory cannot shake, not even a microscopic amount,” he said, adding that they set such factories into the bedrock to keep them still. “Even a 0.5 Richter shake can ruin an entire crop of chips.”

Strange that ring-of-fire Taiwan has 60% of the market.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
Avatar 22024
1.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Jun 6, 2021, 17:01
1.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Jun 6, 2021, 17:01
Jun 6, 2021, 17:01
 
That's dumb opening those plants there when the northern US states - and Canada - have tons of freely available water.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."
Avatar 25394
16 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  ] Older