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22.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 10, 2021, 12:14
Verno
 
22.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 10, 2021, 12:14
May 10, 2021, 12:14
 Verno
 
Although I feel the non-user-replaceable battery was foisted upon the public by Apple and Samsung, consumers didn't really complain about it because so many people upgrade their phones 2-3 years before the battery becomes an issue. Also, the phone hardware industry still has enough competition that there are still battery swappable phones being offered. Kind of sad to see LG leave the industry though. My wife had an LG phone for a few years, and it was a great phone for the money.

All that said, there's promising battery tech on the horizon that might make this a moot point with batteries that can withstand 10,000 recharge cycles.

Apple was the first to do it I believe. They were chasing larger screens, thinner chassis, water resistance, different battery form factors and so on. Consumers flocked to them immediately and that's why thicker phones with more traditional features are going by the wayside. There are a few exceptions still on the market but frankly most aren't desirable to consumers.

Anyways some people get upset about this but my perspective is the whole industry moved on and it isn't coming back. I don't care if I personally replace the battery, so long as someone can at a reasonable price. Technically I still can with a heat gun and some time, I'm just not interested when Apple can do it for $90 or less. I just want to make sure it doesn't end up in a landfill unnecessarily.
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21.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 9, 2021, 14:44
21.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 9, 2021, 14:44
May 9, 2021, 14:44
 
Verno wrote on May 9, 2021, 10:50:
jdreyer wrote on May 8, 2021, 03:28:
ALL mobile devices should have user-replaceable batteries. I have tablets and phones that are otherwise completely useable except their batteries died. Heck, my monitor died after 12 years and my TV after 15. In both cases, the backlight went out. If I could replace the backlight myself, I'd still be using these devices.

You aren't going to get the form factors we have now without compromises. Companies and consumers prioritized convenience and form factor over user serviceable parts awhile ago in the phone market. I feel like you know this already, the few metal/glass backed phones without sealed batteries ended up being disasters like the G5. We could definitely have user serviceable parts back but it would also mean a return to chunky phones again and that would also mean we don't get other features consumers want like better water resistance.

I personally don't care that much about thin phones but the overwhelming majority of the market does and spoke a long time ago. I value battery life and repairable parts when I'm buying a personal phone but the market went in the other direction entirely, driven by consumer choice. There isn't much I can do about that, consumers don't care anymore. What is more important to me is that the companies ensure these things don't just end up in landfills by at least offering a battery replacement program instead of forcing consumers to upgrade every year. That is something that Apple used to do and thankfully no longer does.
I dunno, my Samsung S4 isn't really much thicker than my Note 9. That said, I suppose you're right. Although I feel the non-user-replaceable battery was foisted upon the public by Apple and Samsung, consumers didn't really complain about it because so many people upgrade their phones 2-3 years before the battery becomes an issue. Also, the phone hardware industry still has enough competition that there are still battery swappable phones being offered. Kind of sad to see LG leave the industry though. My wife had an LG phone for a few years, and it was a great phone for the money.

All that said, there's promising battery tech on the horizon that might make this a moot point with batteries that can withstand 10,000 recharge cycles.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
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20.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 9, 2021, 10:50
Verno
 
20.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 9, 2021, 10:50
May 9, 2021, 10:50
 Verno
 
jdreyer wrote on May 8, 2021, 03:28:
ALL mobile devices should have user-replaceable batteries. I have tablets and phones that are otherwise completely useable except their batteries died. Heck, my monitor died after 12 years and my TV after 15. In both cases, the backlight went out. If I could replace the backlight myself, I'd still be using these devices.

You aren't going to get the form factors we have now without compromises. Companies and consumers prioritized convenience and form factor over user serviceable parts awhile ago in the phone market. I feel like you know this already, the few metal/glass backed phones without sealed batteries ended up being disasters like the G5. We could definitely have user serviceable parts back but it would also mean a return to chunky phones again and that would also mean we don't get other features consumers want like better water resistance.

I personally don't care that much about thin phones but the overwhelming majority of the market does and spoke a long time ago. I value battery life and repairable parts when I'm buying a personal phone but the market went in the other direction entirely, driven by consumer choice. There isn't much I can do about that, consumers don't care anymore. What is more important to me is that the companies ensure these things don't just end up in landfills by at least offering a battery replacement program instead of forcing consumers to upgrade every year. That is something that Apple used to do and thankfully no longer does.
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19.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 8, 2021, 03:28
19.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 8, 2021, 03:28
May 8, 2021, 03:28
 
Mr. Tact wrote on May 7, 2021, 14:54:
Verno wrote on May 7, 2021, 12:59:
Yeah that was definitely a thing. I will say to Apple's credit, they've gone the other way during the Cook era and now give their devices long term support, inspect the factories where the phones are made and so on. Still a tax-dodging evil megacorp though for sure.
*meh* They might have given into customer pressure a little bit and offered a couple of slight mitigations for some devices but overall they get a failing grade in my book. If they want to impress me they can start making iPhones with user replaceable batteries.

ALL mobile devices should have user-replaceable batteries. I have tablets and phones that are otherwise completely useable except their batteries died. Heck, my monitor died after 12 years and my TV after 15. In both cases, the backlight went out. If I could replace the backlight myself, I'd still be using these devices.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
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18.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 8, 2021, 03:26
18.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 8, 2021, 03:26
May 8, 2021, 03:26
 
subx wrote on May 7, 2021, 12:42:
If sabotaging your customers’ devices in order to get them to buy new ones that you’re working a poorly paid foreign workforce to death to create somehow makes you a bad guy, the world truely has gone mad.

Hey, c'mon now. Apple employees don't die, because they get caught by the suicide nets when they jump.
'I am' is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. Could it be that 'I do' is the longest sentence? - GC
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17.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 20:41
Verno
 
17.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 20:41
May 7, 2021, 20:41
 Verno
 
Smitten
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16.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 20:32
16.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 20:32
May 7, 2021, 20:32
 
Fine. They can have a golf clap for their "encouraging changes".
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
15.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 20:14
Verno
 
15.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 20:14
May 7, 2021, 20:14
 Verno
 
I don't think acknowledging any kind of improvement is the same thing as giving them a pass. I've lambasted Apple on here many times but I see some encouraging changes, however slow they may be.
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14.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 19:28
14.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 19:28
May 7, 2021, 19:28
 
Being innovative doesn't get them a pass for being dicks.

This comment was edited on May 7, 2021, 20:08.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
13.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 19:25
Verno
 
13.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 19:25
May 7, 2021, 19:25
 Verno
 
Mr. Tact wrote on May 7, 2021, 18:21:
Yeah, I don't thank murderers for picking up trash. Terrible analogy. Basically I think their pros are outweighed by their cons by at least a couple of orders of magnitude.

Yeah that was...pretty bad. To each his own, I prefer a bit of balance in my life. Apple might be a bad corporate citizen but they also have pioneered a lot of important shit and I like to think that we're influencing these corps to be better. The old Apple under Jobs never would've bothered trying.
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12.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 18:23
12.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 18:23
May 7, 2021, 18:23
 
Mr. Tact wrote on May 7, 2021, 16:40:
Verno wrote on May 7, 2021, 15:01:
Nah that's a huge understatement, they did a complete about face with long term hardware and software support. .... You can however take it to an Apple store and get it replaced so that they don't just get tossed into a landfill.
Hmm. When did this about face supposedly take place? Can third parties replace the batteries, or is this a you must go to Apple situation.
Apple is actively fighting against laws allowing third party repairs.
11.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 18:21
11.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 18:21
May 7, 2021, 18:21
 
Yeah, I don't thank murderers for picking up trash. Terrible analogy. Basically I think their pros are outweighed by their cons by at least a couple of orders of magnitude.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
10.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 17:07
Verno
 
10.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 17:07
May 7, 2021, 17:07
 Verno
 
Mr. Tact wrote on May 7, 2021, 16:40:
Hmm. When did this about face supposedly take place? Can third parties replace the batteries, or is this a you must go to Apple situation. If you are right, it is news to me. But then I have never given them a single penny so I have no personal interactions with them. Wasn't long ago I saw a breakdown of something from Apple and it was clear they purposely built it so it could not be taken apart and repaired, it was covered in glue. Earbuds? Don't remember for sure... whatever it was, you couldn't dissemble it without breaking it.

I'm referring specifically to their phones and when they started a battery replacement program, committed to long term support for both the hardware and the software. You can still use an iPhone 6s today with full security updates on the latest version of iOS. Heck this iPhone 8 Plus I use from work is faster than when I initially purchased it due to iOS updates. They've made some progress from the slowing down phones fiasco. Yes, they obviously have a long way to go in other respects. I would personally like the trend of epoxying everything to stop, I see it everywhere near with slim laptops, phones and other consumer electronics. Apple is definitely one of the worst offenders in that regard and self-repair in general. But I will credit them when they make progress instead of just dumping on them continually.
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9.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 17:02
9.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 17:02
May 7, 2021, 17:02
 
BIGtrouble77 wrote on May 7, 2021, 13:11:
subx wrote on May 7, 2021, 12:42:
If sabotaging your customers’ devices in order to get them to buy new ones that you’re working a poorly paid foreign workforce to death to create somehow makes you a bad guy, the world truely has gone mad.

Of course, because Android device makers have a wonderful reputation for long term support and industry leading treatment of their workforce.
Reads while playing on my still-supported (yet aging quickly) Samsung Note 8
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8.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 16:40
8.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 16:40
May 7, 2021, 16:40
 
Verno wrote on May 7, 2021, 15:01:
Nah that's a huge understatement, they did a complete about face with long term hardware and software support. .... You can however take it to an Apple store and get it replaced so that they don't just get tossed into a landfill.
Hmm. When did this about face supposedly take place? Can third parties replace the batteries, or is this a you must go to Apple situation. If you are right, it is news to me. But then I have never given them a single penny so I have no personal interactions with them. Wasn't long ago I saw a breakdown of something from Apple and it was clear they purposely built it so it could not be taken apart and repaired, it was covered in glue. Earbuds? Don't remember for sure... whatever it was, you couldn't dissemble it without breaking it.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
7.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 15:01
Verno
 
7.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 15:01
May 7, 2021, 15:01
 Verno
 
Mr. Tact wrote on May 7, 2021, 14:54:
*meh* They might have given into customer pressure a little bit and offered a couple of slight mitigations for some devices but overall they get a failing grade in my book. If they want to impress me they can start making iPhones with user replaceable batteries.

Nah that's a huge understatement, they did a complete about face with long term hardware and software support. If we're going to ding them for their faults then we're going to credit them where its due. No one is making user replaceable batteries anymore, that ship sailed. You can however take it to an Apple store and get it replaced so that they don't just get tossed into a landfill. I would personally love user replaceable batteries and SD card slots but the industry is moving in the other direction and doesn't appear to be changing its mind any time soon. The masses want larger screens and thinner phones yet demand decent battery life, you don't get there without compromises. I think it really sucks but I'm a lifetime holder of minority opinions so I've learned to live with it and shrug.
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6.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 14:54
6.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 14:54
May 7, 2021, 14:54
 
Verno wrote on May 7, 2021, 12:59:
Yeah that was definitely a thing. I will say to Apple's credit, they've gone the other way during the Cook era and now give their devices long term support, inspect the factories where the phones are made and so on. Still a tax-dodging evil megacorp though for sure.
*meh* They might have given into customer pressure a little bit and offered a couple of slight mitigations for some devices but overall they get a failing grade in my book. If they want to impress me they can start making iPhones with user replaceable batteries.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
5.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 13:11
5.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 13:11
May 7, 2021, 13:11
 
subx wrote on May 7, 2021, 12:42:
If sabotaging your customers’ devices in order to get them to buy new ones that you’re working a poorly paid foreign workforce to death to create somehow makes you a bad guy, the world truely has gone mad.

Of course, because Android device makers have a wonderful reputation for long term support and industry leading treatment of their workforce.
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4.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 13:09
4.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 13:09
May 7, 2021, 13:09
 
Thanks blue for these summaries. Makes it easy to keep on top of the crazy.
3.
 
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI
May 7, 2021, 12:59
Verno
 
3.
Re: Epic v. Apple Exhibits - Part VI May 7, 2021, 12:59
May 7, 2021, 12:59
 Verno
 
subx wrote on May 7, 2021, 12:42:
If sabotaging your customers’ devices in order to get them to buy new ones that you’re working a poorly paid foreign workforce to death to create somehow makes you a bad guy, the world truely has gone mad.

Yeah that was definitely a thing. I will say to Apple's credit, they've gone the other way during the Cook era and now give their devices long term support, inspect the factories where the phones are made and so on. Still a tax-dodging evil megacorp though for sure.
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