Agent.X7 wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 19:33:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 18:26:
... ... ... ...
Yep.
World over classic populist/demagogic/fascist tool:
Blatantly fabricating enemies and demonizing outsiders.
Rounds up the gulible and hard to inform, giving them that ol' sweet righteous belonging feeling.

You do realize that is BOTH major political parties in the US, correct?

Sure Agent.X7, but the difference in degree is appalling.

Compare the communicative capacity, intelligence and sincerity, or lack thereof, of Kayleigh Mcenany and Jen Psaki.

Compare Cruz, Nunes, Getz, Jordan, Hawley, Taylor Greene, etc, with whomever you care to.

Compare T**** with ... let's not go further into derangement.

These guys don't see the irony of what they're projecting, Agent.X7. Don't bother.

As for some good perspective regarding this topic, watch this vid. But they probably won't, because this guy is against CAIR's attempt to cancel a game which naturally makes him an Islamophobe in the eyes of the cancel cultists.

Agent.X7 wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 19:33:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 18:26:

RedEye9 wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 10:13:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 07:04:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 05:22:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 11, 2021, 21:04:
... They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.
...

You mean Quinn is blindly radicalised just because he's posting about dying in a fictional onslaught of Muslims and prophesising the end of Western civilization? Please say it ain't so!

Hi theyarecomingforyou !,

Not directed to anyone in particular but to the recognizable type of the perennially agitated

Seems like they crave and search for things to be afraid of, or outraged over, and if there aren't, they'll make up new ones presto

The populist movement and the likes of the Republican party could not survive without feeding, nurturing and welcoming those types of people. Combined with the fear and ignorance they absorb from the bobbleheads on Fox it makes for a toxic mindset.

Yep.
World over classic populist/demagogic/fascist tool:
Blatantly fabricating enemies and demonizing outsiders.
Rounds up the gulible and hard to inform, giving them that ol' sweet righteous belonging feeling.

You do realize that is BOTH major political parties in the US, correct?

Quick fact check

Democrats believe in science. Yep
Republicans believe in science. NOPE

Democrats are the party of Q. Nope
Republicans have assimilated and become synonymous with QAnon. YEP

Democrats spread election false hoods and fomented insurrection. NOPE
Republicans spread election false hoods and fomented insurrection. yep

The Proud Bois, Oaf Keepers and white supremacists flock towards the Republican Party. yeppers
The Proud Bois, Oaf Keepers and white supremacists flock towards the Democratic Party. not so much


You’re “good people party on both sides” theorem doesn’t hold water.
But I’ll give you a C for effort.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 18:26:

RedEye9 wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 10:13:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 07:04:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 05:22:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 11, 2021, 21:04:
... They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.
...

You mean Quinn is blindly radicalised just because he's posting about dying in a fictional onslaught of Muslims and prophesising the end of Western civilization? Please say it ain't so!

Hi theyarecomingforyou !,

Not directed to anyone in particular but to the recognizable type of the perennially agitated

Seems like they crave and search for things to be afraid of, or outraged over, and if there aren't, they'll make up new ones presto

The populist movement and the likes of the Republican party could not survive without feeding, nurturing and welcoming those types of people. Combined with the fear and ignorance they absorb from the bobbleheads on Fox it makes for a toxic mindset.

Yep.
World over classic populist/demagogic/fascist tool:
Blatantly fabricating enemies and demonizing outsiders.
Rounds up the gulible and hard to inform, giving them that ol' sweet righteous belonging feeling.

You do realize that is BOTH major political parties in the US, correct?

RedEye9 wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 10:13:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 07:04:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 05:22:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 11, 2021, 21:04:
... They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.
...

You mean Quinn is blindly radicalised just because he's posting about dying in a fictional onslaught of Muslims and prophesising the end of Western civilization? Please say it ain't so!

Hi theyarecomingforyou !,

Not directed to anyone in particular but to the recognizable type of the perennially agitated

Seems like they crave and search for things to be afraid of, or outraged over, and if there aren't, they'll make up new ones presto

The populist movement and the likes of the Republican party could not survive without feeding, nurturing and welcoming those types of people. Combined with the fear and ignorance they absorb from the bobbleheads on Fox it makes for a toxic mindset.

Yep.
World over classic populist/demagogic/fascist tool:
Blatantly fabricating enemies and demonizing outsiders.
Rounds up the gulible and hard to inform, giving them that ol' sweet righteous belonging feeling.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 07:04:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 05:22:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 11, 2021, 21:04:
... They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.
...

You mean Quinn is blindly radicalised just because he's posting about dying in a fictional onslaught of Muslims and prophesising the end of Western civilization? Please say it ain't so!

Hi theyarecomingforyou !,

Not directed to anyone in particular but to the recognizable type of the perennially agitated

Seems like they crave and search for things to be afraid of, or outraged over, and if there aren't, they'll make up new ones presto

The populist movement and the likes of the Republican party could not survive without feeding, nurturing and welcoming those types of people. Combined with the fear and ignorance they absorb from the bobbleheads on Fox it makes for a toxic mindset.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 05:22:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 11, 2021, 21:04:
When you believe most everyone not in your group is blindly radicalized, then you are radicalized and blind, to some extent.

If you see whole movements as monolithic, and interpret that the actions of the few represent all, you lose contact with the complexities of reality.

I mostly find that the more understanding and intelligent opinions comes from what many think as socialist or leftists, even if they are not.

On the other side I tend to see gross simplifications and wrong assumptions, sometimes risible or sad.
But also a dangerous tendency to an aggressive and fearful mentality towards different ideas.
They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.

You mean Quinn is blindly radicalised just because he's posting about dying in a fictional onslaught of Muslims and prophesising the end of Western civilization? Please say it ain't so!

I wasn't just talking about Islamic influences chipping away at our values. There are many things our so called "progressives" are defending or propagating that will have wildy regressive outcomes. From the way how a staggering amount of Muslims thinks about equality between men / women / homosexuals etc (many different polls one google search away) to transgenders in sports. Just to name two things, but the list is legion. This knee-jerk reaction to blindly defend anything considered minority or marginalized is ridiculously pathetic, especially when available data regarding many of these things are thrown right out of the window while doing so. If this CAIR case was somehow a Christian organization, everyone would just pounce on this like rabid dogs on fresh meat. The hypocrisy is frustrating AF.

Also, WannaLogAlready & theyarecomingforyou, how about going easy on the slander? 1.) I don't blindly assume "most everyone not in my group is blindly radicalized". 2.) I don't think the actions of a few represent all. I don't say that anywhere.

You do understand it's due to your bad faith and not my lack of subtlety that you can't read my comments honestly unless I add "not all" to every fucking sentence, right?

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Apr 12, 2021, 05:22:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 11, 2021, 21:04:
... They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.
...

You mean Quinn is blindly radicalised just because he's posting about dying in a fictional onslaught of Muslims and prophesising the end of Western civilization? Please say it ain't so!

Hi theyarecomingforyou !,

Not directed to anyone in particular but to the recognizable type of the perennially agitated

Seems like they crave and search for things to be afraid of, or outraged over, and if there aren't, they'll make up new ones presto

WannaLogAlready wrote on Apr 11, 2021, 21:04:
When you believe most everyone not in your group is blindly radicalized, then you are radicalized and blind, to some extent.

If you see whole movements as monolithic, and interpret that the actions of the few represent all, you lose contact with the complexities of reality.

I mostly find that the more understanding and intelligent opinions comes from what many think as socialist or leftists, even if they are not.

On the other side I tend to see gross simplifications and wrong assumptions, sometimes risible or sad.
But also a dangerous tendency to an aggressive and fearful mentality towards different ideas.
They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.

You mean Quinn is blindly radicalised just because he's posting about dying in a fictional onslaught of Muslims and prophesising the end of Western civilization? Please say it ain't so!

When you believe most everyone not in your group is blindly radicalized, then you are radicalized and blind, to some extent.

If you see whole movements as monolithic, and interpret that the actions of the few represent all, you lose contact with the complexities of reality.

I mostly find that the more understanding and intelligent opinions comes from what many think as socialist or leftists, even if they are not.

On the other side I tend to see gross simplifications and wrong assumptions, sometimes risible or sad.
But also a dangerous tendency to an aggressive and fearful mentality towards different ideas.
They feel threatened and mistreated in a over dramatic way.

And thus the lines are blurred. I'm fine with that. Ironically, so are the people who prostrate themselves before basically any feminist movement; who consider every #metoo claim as fact; who rightfully raise their fist for equality between man and woman.

On the surface, one would think their fanaticism was grounded in a moral compass tuned so very finely into the western, secular system of values. Instead, it's a shallow bravado grounded in causes for anything considered "marginalized" or "minority" in their eyes. The only consolidation when considering people like Beamer and Redeye, is that they'll be the ones fighting the hardest and the bravest when everything we value as a western society has become a contrarian concept to believe in; when true equality has become a concept too distant to grasp. The rest of us will have dropped our heads in dispair, dying quietly in whispers of "I told you so"'s.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations is not on the United States' terrorism watch list.

In 2014 the United Arab Emirates (U.A.E) released a list of designated terrorist groups and organizations with more than 80 different groups from around the world.
Two American groups that represent Muslims — the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Muslim American Society — were designated terrorist groups by the Gulf state.

Neither CAIR nor the Muslim American Society are designated terror groups by the U.S. government, and their inclusion on the list surprised many analysts — especially when more established groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah in Lebanon were left off. CAIR put out a statement that said they were seeking clarification on their "shocking and bizarre" inclusion on the list, while the Muslim American Society said that they had had "no dealings with the United Arab Emirates" and were "perplexed by this news."

CAIR’s inclusion on the list is tenuous at best.

CAIR, a designated terrorist group in at least one country and leaders known to have financial ties to other terrorist organizations around the world is decrying this game. The irony is not lost on me in the least.

Prez wrote on Apr 10, 2021, 12:49:
I just meant that you don't tend to bash other religions in other threads, not this one. I have been here a long time and I know a lot of you. Being disabled means I have ample time to read up on Bluesnews lol. And Beamer didn't call you a bigot if you are against what CAIR says. If that was the case he'd call me one too. I just think they are making a mountain out of a molehill. Racism against Muslims is definitely real, so surely you can understand why they said what they said, even if it's wrong?

Of course I understand. I understand the mind of the likes of Beamer all too well. Read this entire thread back. The overall back-and-forths were very civil and we all were getting our point across. Then that guy comes in and makes the usual insinuations for no fucking reason other than projecting his own black & white, polarized view of the world. No, dude, ppl who think CAIR should care more about other stuff and less about a game nobody knows nothing about yet aren't Islamophobic racists. To think this and act on this is to kill conversations.

And the reasons you don't see me bash other religions are 1.) others do it for me (kxmode must still be bruised from his last thrashing), because all religions are fair game except the almighty Islamic one, in the eyes of our finest virtue warriors and 2.) they are in many ways incomparable, and I personally am confronted a lot by people who hold completely incompatible beliefs with regards to my secular values and those people are most often Muslims. Apart from the anecdotal, this is also easily explained once you look into their doctrine and the fact their religion didn't reform and adapt as our western society developed into the secular society we are today, and how Muslims critical of their own religion are being treated by their own. This isn't bigotry nor racism from my part. I thoroughly propagate open conversation with Muslims about this and I actively support secular Muslims like Maajid Nawaz to name just one of the very few that are publicly critical about their own religion and have a platform.

I just meant that you don't tend to bash other religions in other threads, not this one. I have been here a long time and I know a lot of you. Being disabled means I have ample time to read up on Bluesnews lol. And Beamer didn't call you a bigot if you are against what CAIR says. If that was the case he'd call me one too. I just think they are making a mountain out of a molehill. Racism against Muslims is definitely real, so surely you can understand why they said what they said, even if it's wrong?

Prez wrote on Apr 10, 2021, 12:36:
I wasn't insinuating anything. I was making a simple comparison to illustrate a basic truth. My main point is that whatever you believe about radical religious zealots, CAIR is not made up of them. Bringing it up when it doesn't apply is what makes Beamer say what he says. You pointed out the hatred of their religion because of what their book says - I in turn would point out that you need to be consistent on all religions based on what their book says if that's your metric. I don't accuse you of racism. I just want you to be consistent.

Consistency has nothing to do with it, because we weren't talking about other religions. We were talking about Muslims ergo Islam. Beamer insinuated that ppl who are against this CAIR claim are racist bigots. That's where I stepped in. Read back and see that bringing Problem B into a convo about Problem A added nothing to it but a silly "what about!" sidestep.

I wasn't insinuating anything. I was making a simple comparison to illustrate a basic truth. My main point is that whatever you believe about radical religious zealots, CAIR is not made up of them. Bringing it up when it doesn't apply is what makes Beamer say what he says I suspect. You pointed out the hatred of their religion because of what their book says - I in turn would point out that you need to be consistent on all religions based on what their book says if that's your metric. I don't accuse you of racism. I just want you to be consistent. I honestly like both you and Beamer, as I like most people here. But I need to go before Kxmode blows this thread up.

Prez wrote on Apr 10, 2021, 11:18:
You do realize that if Christians followed the bible word for word women who had sex out of wedlock would be stoned. There is a ton of reprehensible stuff in the bible. Lots of holy books preach vile stuff; not just Muslims. I can't fault an entire race for what a relatively small radical fringe group does. Anymore than I can fault every Christian for what a few do at funerals of dead soldiers.

I don't disagree and that you insinuate that I do I find pretty disappointing, Prez. Two wrongs don't make a who cares, though. At least not for me. I also have enough knowledge of the matter to dare to admit all religions aren't equally good or bad, in both scripture and today's practice. To say otherwise is to be severely lacking in honesty, knowledge or morals.

We can throw Christians under the bus all day and I'm all for it, too. Let's get this party started.

This comment was edited on Apr 10, 2021, 12:13.

You do realize that if Christians followed the bible word for word women who had sex out of wedlock would be stoned. There is a ton of reprehensible stuff in the bible. Lots of holy books preach vile stuff; not just Muslims. I can't fault an entire race for what a relatively small radical fringe group does. Anymore than I can fault every Christian for what a few do at funerals of dead soldiers.

Beamer wrote on Apr 10, 2021, 00:12:

bigspender wrote on Apr 9, 2021, 18:25:

Quinn wrote on Apr 9, 2021, 12:10:

Beamer wrote on Apr 9, 2021, 08:22:
It's interesting how the discussions here about this game were all basically unanimous that it was a bad idea. Taking recent, real world events, putting real people that were there as NPCs, but ignoring all the civilian casualties those people caused feels, to use a dictionary word, icky.

But then a Muslim group says something and now there's vehement dissent here.

Maybe a few of you should wonder why you didn't care, or much care, or see any need to defend this game, until a Muslim said something?

Maybe you should ask yourself why you go this route? And I mean that.

We hear about discussions in bad faith so often these days and this Beamer piece is a prime example. Look closely and see how he actively tries to shut down conversation by telling those on the opposite side of the argument that maybe deep down, they are racist xeno-/Islamophobes. Thank you Prez for having the energy to swallow that garbage and engage with him respectfully. It takes a very patient person to be able to do that.

+1

Sure. This is the 6th or so topic Blue has had on this, but the first time people like Quinn, who famously goes on rants about how racism doesn't exist and anyone claiming otherwise is the real racist, got involved.

Perfectly understandable to think that a guy that whines about Muslims with some frequency picked this moment for reasons other than to continue hating what he refuses to understand.

I don't hate Muslims. I hate their dogma and the zealots among them who follow the most malicious ideas of the religion. We all should. But if you want to debate their religion, let's go. I bet I know and understand way more about it than you. Where do you want to start?

Also, where do I say that racism doesn't exist? Show me or quit the slandering.