NKD wrote on Apr 7, 2021, 15:35:
Cutter wrote on Apr 7, 2021, 15:20:
Same with all the WWII and Vietnam games over the years. One side good, one side bad, when the reality is they're all a bunch of fucking assholes.
Did he... did he really just "both sides" WW2?
You could say German actions were a well deserved revenge for being drawn into ww1 and blamed for a war they didnt start and fleeced to pay reparations for a war they didnt start.
Something overlooked by post war education in allied nations is that the German government kept their sinister side secret, and sold the war by telling Germans that 50'000 ethnic Germans in Poland had been persecuted and driven from their homes for their ethnicity, and that communists were targeting ethnic Germans to take their land and poperty. So Germans at large thought they were going in to help/liberate people from oppression.
Not even the wermacht knew. It wasn't till after the war started and the SS moved in to do cleansings did the wermacht find out. Many leaders lost their positions for refusing to go along with the ss. By the time the war heated up, your choice was 'play along' or 'get shot for treason' (there is a reason officers use pistols not rifles. their job isn't to shoot the enemy, it's to shoot disobedient troops).
When you look back at Hitler's personal history, when he was a regular soldier in ww1... Leading up to the loss of ww1, the German government ran propaganda that blamed their losses on 'jewish traitor indistrialists, making backdoor plans with Germany's enemies to throw the war for future business/trade'. (The war depended on who could throw more artillery shells, so manufacturing was key). You could even blame what he became on the false propaganda he was fed.
You could say japanese actions were to liberate asia from western colonizers. (which is how they themselves marketed the war to their citizens, and technically they did do).
You could also say the allies were opportunistic assholes because they left the bulk of WW2 to Russia (Russia killed 80% of German troops and 75% of German equipment) and ran around the world grabbing colonies, and didn't bother sending troops against Germany proper till Russia was already moving into Germany and the war was almost over.
Also, this was a time when civillians were considered valid military targets - because they supply the military. Annihilating cities was the norm on both sides. You can watch old pathe videos of p47s straffing farmhouses to make sure they have nothing useful left.
Point is, yah, there were no good guys or bad guys. Just some guys worse than the other, depending on if you benefitted or lost from what happened.
p.s. My family was on the receiving side of German fire. In any case, enemies tend to be unreliable sources of info about one another. I think it's better to integrate arguments from all around and cross reference them with timelines of actions to infer the likely scenario.
-scheherazadeThis comment was edited on Apr 8, 2021, 12:41.