Into the Black

Last Link of the Day: "Discovery" S4, "Lower Decks" S2 Trailers.
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 19:43
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Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 19:43
Apr 5, 2021, 19:43
 
I may continue with discovery but lower decks doesn't have shit on Solar Opposites.
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 20:08
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Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 20:08
Apr 5, 2021, 20:08
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 5, 2021, 19:43:
I may continue with discovery but lower decks doesn't have shit on Solar Opposites.

So ya wanna be a sword guy like Sulu? It can totally be your thing!

I really didn't like Discovery (still hate the non-attached nacelles), but once it moved into the future, and the line "You make a wonderful first impression" I fell in love with the show. Because the way I understand it is that there are now 3 timelines. Prime (shows and movies except Discovery and the reboot) the Kelvin timeline (the reboots) and then Discovery. Am I mistaken in this (TL;DR googling the 800 million answers).
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 20:46
Kxmode
 
3.
Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 20:46
Apr 5, 2021, 20:46
 Kxmode
 
The Half Elf wrote on Apr 5, 2021, 20:08:
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 5, 2021, 19:43:
I may continue with discovery but lower decks doesn't have shit on Solar Opposites.

So ya wanna be a sword guy like Sulu? It can totally be your thing!

I really didn't like Discovery (still hate the non-attached nacelles), but once it moved into the future, and the line "You make a wonderful first impression" I fell in love with the show. Because the way I understand it is that there are now 3 timelines. Prime (shows and movies except Discovery and the reboot) the Kelvin timeline (the reboots) and then Discovery. Am I mistaken in this (TL;DR googling the 800 million answers).

Discovery is set 900 years into the future of the Prime timeline. The first two seasons occur in the prime timeline, with the third jumping 900 years into the future. The Kelvin timeline was a one-off thing that J.J. Abrams invented. Paramount and CBS ended it after the third film.

In principle, any Star Trek shows like Picard, Strange New Worlds (I'm looking forward to this the most), Section 31, or any others in the prime timeline past could create a ripple effect that crosses over into Discovery.

Edit: Just thought of one thing. The showrunners have to be careful not to break continuity or retcon stuff. What happens in Picard, Strange New Worlds, and Section 31 will affect Discovery timeline-wise.

This comment was edited on Apr 5, 2021, 21:42.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 20:58
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Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 20:58
Apr 5, 2021, 20:58
 
Wait.. the third season of Discovery jumps 900 years into the future of the first two seasons? Okay... that's an interesting decision....
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 21:16
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Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 21:16
Apr 5, 2021, 21:16
 

I'm amazed they're still producing that Malon antimatter waste.
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 21:36
Kxmode
 
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Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 21:36
Apr 5, 2021, 21:36
 Kxmode
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 5, 2021, 20:58:
Wait.. the third season of Discovery jumps 900 years into the future of the first two seasons? Okay... that's an interesting decision....

Yes. Sorry if that was a spoiler. I won't spoil it any further, but at the end of the season two they show why no one in Starfleet has ever heard of Discovery (including higher ups).

Season three is my second favorite season. My first is season two, with Captain Pike. It is why I'm looking forward to Strange New Worlds. The cast promised it'll be a return to the old episodic style the older series used to do. We will get to learn more about Pike and more about how Spock becomes the Spock we know from TOS. Thumbsup
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 22:35
7.
Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 22:35
Apr 5, 2021, 22:35
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 5, 2021, 21:36:
Yes. Sorry if that was a spoiler. I won't spoil it any further, but at the end of the season two they show why no one in Starfleet has ever heard of Discovery (including higher ups).
Well, for better or worse, I believe that has probably increased the likeliness I'll actually attempt to watch Discovery now.

Edit: Unfortunately it looks like currently only Paramount has all three seasons available.

This comment was edited on Apr 5, 2021, 22:56.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 5, 2021, 23:02
Kxmode
 
8.
Re: Into the Black Apr 5, 2021, 23:02
Apr 5, 2021, 23:02
 Kxmode
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 5, 2021, 22:35:
Kxmode wrote on Apr 5, 2021, 21:36:
Yes. Sorry if that was a spoiler. I won't spoil it any further, but at the end of the season two they show why no one in Starfleet has ever heard of Discovery (including higher ups).
Well, for better or worse, I believe that has probably increased the likeliness I'll actually attempt to watch Discovery now.

Edit: Unfortunately it looks like currently only Paramount has all three seasons available.

Because CBS All-Access merged with Paramount to create Paramount+. I guess Paramount/CBS want to compete with Disney+.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 04:26
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Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 04:26
Apr 6, 2021, 04:26
 
The only thing worse than Discovery, are rabid Discovery apologists. Now I'm not saying that any of you guys fall into that category, but people who blindly defend this show are akin to religious fanatics who are able to believe two contradictory things at the same time.
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 08:25
Prez
 
10.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 08:25
Apr 6, 2021, 08:25
 Prez
 
I realize the "new Trek" is meant for a new generation, but I seriously HATE Discovery. Almost as much as I hate Picard. Jesus Star Trek is a far cry from what it used to be.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 08:53
11.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 08:53
Apr 6, 2021, 08:53
 
VaranDragon wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 04:26:
The only thing worse than Discovery, are rabid Discovery apologists. Now I'm not saying that any of you guys fall into that category, but people who blindly defend this show are akin to religious fanatics who are able to believe two contradictory things at the same time.

People can like what they like. No need to shame them for it.

That said, I gave up in season 2, then after S3 started, watched through S2 to get to S3 and then gave up on that.

Discovery should really be named: Michael Burnham: A Star Trek Retcon story
"In an increasingly fractured Federation, discover the heroic tales of Michael Burnham on USS Discovery. Super-intelligent adoptive human sister of Spock, watch as she repeatedly disobeys orders and the chain of command, single handedly saves the crew over and over, can solve numerous problems requiring diverse specialties, and become the central figure shaping the entire future of the galaxy."
Also: watch as Tilly gets promoted to 1st officer despite being a young junior crew member, under-qualified and, based on her previous actions and emotional make-up, entirely unsuited to the role.
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 09:07
Kxmode
 
12.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 09:07
Apr 6, 2021, 09:07
 Kxmode
 
G.oZ wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 08:53:
VaranDragon wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 04:26:
The only thing worse than Discovery, are rabid Discovery apologists. Now I'm not saying that any of you guys fall into that category, but people who blindly defend this show are akin to religious fanatics who are able to believe two contradictory things at the same time.

People can like what they like. No need to shame them for it.

That said, I gave up in season 2, then after S3 started, watched through S2 to get to S3 and then gave up on that.

Discovery should really be named: Michael Burnham: A Star Trek Retcon story
"In an increasingly fractured Federation, discover the heroic tales of Michael Burnham on USS Discovery. Super-intelligent adoptive human sister of Spock, watch as she repeatedly disobeys orders and the chain of command, single handedly saves the crew over and over, can solve numerous problems requiring diverse specialties, and become the central figure shaping the entire future of the galaxy."
Also: watch as Tilly gets promoted to 1st officer despite being a young junior crew member, under-qualified and, based on her previous actions and emotional make-up, entirely unsuited to the role.

Her name isn't Michael Burnham. It's Mary Sue.

Posted this on January 28, 2021 after having finished the third season (and likely my last). "Star Trek Discovery's third season was an unmitigated disaster. Both the story and dialog was not only atrocious, but an absolute insult to Star Trek's lore made worse by the Gene Roddenberry quote they slap on the screen at the end of the season finale as if that somehow makes it all better. The irony is the quote talks about talking, dialog, and communication, while the season spent most of its time slapping and punching and blowing things up. So yeah, I'm done with it."
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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13.
 
Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 10:12
13.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 10:12
Apr 6, 2021, 10:12
 
VaranDragon wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 04:26:
The only thing worse than Discovery, are rabid Discovery apologists. Now I'm not saying that any of you guys fall into that category, but people who blindly defend this show are akin to religious fanatics who are able to believe two contradictory things at the same time.
Yeah, certainly not me. I have yet to see it so I can neither praise or criticize it. But I've heard enough about it I'm willing to give it a chance. In a similar vein, ST:E was fairly heavily criticized. And while certainly some of the criticisms were valid, overall I was quite pleased with ST:E and was disappointed it didn't last the "standard" seven years. *shrug* As I have said here often, different strokes for different folks.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
14.
 
Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 10:18
14.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 10:18
Apr 6, 2021, 10:18
 
Prez wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 08:25:
I realize the "new Trek" is meant for a new generation, but I seriously HATE Discovery. Almost as much as I hate Picard. Jesus Star Trek is a far cry from what it used to be.
I haven't seen Picard either, but I have far less interest in it, so far. Frankly, I am surprised Stewart wasn't "done" with Star Trek. I'd have thought between ST and X-Men he'd had his fill of filming pop culture entertainment. *shrug* Maybe he is one of those, "It is my job, why would I turn down a paycheck?" kind of guys?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
15.
 
Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 10:25
15.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 10:25
Apr 6, 2021, 10:25
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 10:18:
Prez wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 08:25:
I realize the "new Trek" is meant for a new generation, but I seriously HATE Discovery. Almost as much as I hate Picard. Jesus Star Trek is a far cry from what it used to be.
I haven't seen Picard either, but I have far less interest in it, so far. Frankly, I am surprised Stewart wasn't "done" with Star Trek. I'd have thought between ST and X-Men he'd had his fill of filming pop culture entertainment. *shrug* Maybe he is one of those, "It is my job, why would I turn down a paycheck?" kind of guys?

Unlike musicians* who can sell their back catalogue, actors have to work.
It's all they've got.

*Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Stevie Nicks and Neil Young have sold all or portions of song catalogs in recent deals.
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
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16.
 
Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 10:29
16.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 10:29
Apr 6, 2021, 10:29
 
ST: Picard is hardly perfect but at least doesn't make any of the huge errors that Discovery did. It's not exactly the Star Trek we remember of old, but at least it doesn't yell "abandon all hope" from the bell-tops, and shows us a glimmer of what made Star Trek the beloved show that it was. It's flawed in a way that none of the old shows were flawed but it's not bad.
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17.
 
Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 11:26
17.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 11:26
Apr 6, 2021, 11:26
 
As far as timelines - the last time we saw the original timeline (Next Generation, Deep Space 9, etc.) was the last episode of Enterprise. The "prime" timeline that the Leonard Nimoy Spock came forward from in the first JJ Abrahms movie, and that the new shows take place in is not that same timeline as the shows and movies before it (as much as the creators want you to believe it is). This is due to a licensing issue stemming from when Viacom split with Paramount. The movies and shows are forced to make everything in their content a certain percentage different from the original shows because none of them have the original license. So, no.. the Picard in the in the Picard series is technically from a different universe (with the helping to save the Romulans etc.) than the Picard we all grew up with.

Discussed in more detail here.

More recently things are now back in a position where they can revive the original license and start using the original continuity, but Paramount is still stuck in the contracts with Bad Robot who has the alternate license for the time being. Star Trek is technically a multiverse even when ignoring the kelvin timeline.
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18.
 
Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 11:29
18.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 11:29
Apr 6, 2021, 11:29
 
VaranDragon wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 10:29:
ST: Picard is hardly perfect but at least doesn't make any of the huge errors that Discovery did. It's not exactly the Star Trek we remember of old, but at least it doesn't yell "abandon all hope" from the bell-tops, and shows us a glimmer of what made Star Trek the beloved show that it was. It's flawed in a way that none of the old shows were flawed but it's not bad.

Any of the huge errors like what? Being anti everything that made Trek Trek?

Like going from action scenes serve to advance the plot only when it is necessary to the reverse where the plot is only there as filler to set up the next action scenes? Check

Like going from an intellectual work engaging your brain and rational compassion to an emotional work giving you an emotional roller coaster ride filled with irrational negative emotions instead? Check

Like going from violence as an absolute last resort to violence everywhere as much as possible? Check

Like going from a humanity that has "made it" and is mature to a humanity as worse or even worst than today's? Check

Like going from an uplifting show that gave you hope for the future of humanity and its potential to a depressing one that rubs your face in all the shit of humanity instead? Check

Like going from episodic to serialized instead? Check

Like going from a calm style of direction and filming that emphasized talking heads to one that emphasizes the opposite? Check

Stopping here, I once did an exhaustive list and could go on and on and on. But you get the idea.

***************

Nu/Anti Trek formula in a nutshell:

Take what the soul of Trek was, DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE, keep the same branding and tropes.

***************

Watch Poocard again, it does the exact same thing as the STD infection, it's pure Anti-Trek, all the way.
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 11:54
19.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 11:54
Apr 6, 2021, 11:54
 
Discovery isn't bad sci-fi it just isn't Star Trek.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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Re: Into the Black
Apr 6, 2021, 14:23
20.
Re: Into the Black Apr 6, 2021, 14:23
Apr 6, 2021, 14:23
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 6, 2021, 10:25:
Unlike musicians* who can sell their back catalogue, actors have to work. It's all they've got.

*Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Stevie Nicks and Neil Young have sold all or portions of song catalogs in recent deals.
I absolutely agree they have the right to sell their catalogues, if they want to. However, I have to say unless they were hurting for money, why would they? All four of those artists should have plenty of money already. Then again, they wouldn't be the first to ever spend themselves into poverty. *shrug* Whatever. My point on Stewart was he stuck me as someone who once he was settled for money would seek out his acting passions which I am, perhaps incorrectly, assuming don't include pop culture entertainment.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
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