Jivaro wrote on Feb 24, 2021, 15:20:

Wesp5 wrote on Feb 24, 2021, 01:52:

Jivaro wrote on Feb 24, 2021, 00:26:
Also, why don't they just hire Wesp?

You might be laughing, but before Mitsoda and the others were fired there were talks with Paradox that I and other famous Bloodlines modders should help with beta testing, but sadly it never got that far. They might better have asked us earlier as it seems we knew more about such a game than HSL ;)!

If I am Paradox you are on speed dial from the beginning of development. It's a waste of talent and resources to not do. I am not just saying that to blow sunshine up your ass either. It's the reality. In addition to that, the core audience respects you. It's an obvious call to make. Hopefully with this decision to change it up, maybe they get some sense and reach out. Make sure you charge them.

Not to belittle Wesp's prowess, as he is certainly a god among men in his dedication and tenacity to fix and improve what has become, partly due to his contributions, a cult classic...
But in depth knowledge of a particular game and how it works under the hood isn't necessarily all that valuable when dealing with a new game on a different engine with a new developer.
Though he could certainly help with keeping the "feel" through testing if that's something they wanted to replicate... and that's probably what they were looking for but sounds like they didn't even get that far.

Wesp5 wrote on Feb 24, 2021, 01:52:

Jivaro wrote on Feb 24, 2021, 00:26:
Also, why don't they just hire Wesp?

You might be laughing, but before Mitsoda and the others were fired there were talks with Paradox that I and other famous Bloodlines modders should help with beta testing, but sadly it never got that far. They might better have asked us earlier as it seems we knew more about such a game than HSL ;)!

If I am Paradox you are on speed dial from the beginning of development. It's a waste of talent and resources to not do. I am not just saying that to blow sunshine up your ass either. It's the reality. In addition to that, the core audience respects you. It's an obvious call to make. Hopefully with this decision to change it up, maybe they get some sense and reach out. Make sure you charge them.

I'm way off topic now into Cyberpunk, remember how they did Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2? In the intro ME2 your character basically "dies" but is revived/reconstructed with magic. Basically I could see them doing that in Cyberpunk sequels, allowing the player to either import their old look/decisions or make your look different if you wish, V is "revived" with high-tech Ghost in The Shell level magic, but are you the REAL "V" or a Ghost In The Shell, just a fragment of the original consciousness, dun dun dun!

MrDevinoch wrote on Feb 24, 2021, 03:50:

Acleacius wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 21:15:

Task wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 20:35:

True, in the Secret Ending there's still a way to for V to go off in search of a cure. I'm not so sure they couldn't change perspectives in the Endings (at least some).

That's also in line for how the Nomad's storyline currently wraps up, so I feel like that may be the end canon if the sequel wants to do more with V, and not just create another new character from scratch (which, to be honest, might also be the plan).

Yeah, it's clearly the best long term ending. I hope the plan isn't to start a new character each time.
It would almost seem like a slap in the face. Many of us put a lot of time and effort into these long (40+ hour) RPGs.
It seems obvious we would become attached and killing off our toons with dlc, could be considered cruel.

Acleacius wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 21:15:

Task wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 20:35:

True, in the Secret Ending there's still a way to for V to go off in search of a cure. I'm not so sure they couldn't change perspectives in the Endings (at least some).

That's also in line for how the Nomad's storyline currently wraps up, so I feel like that may be the end canon if the sequel wants to do more with V, and not just create another new character from scratch (which, to be honest, might also be the plan).

As some have already mentioned, yeah this damn game franchise is as cursed as the fictional subjects it portrays.

Jivaro wrote on Feb 24, 2021, 00:26:
Also, why don't they just hire Wesp?

You might be laughing, but before Mitsoda and the others were fired there were talks with Paradox that I and other famous Bloodlines modders should help with beta testing, but sadly it never got that far. They might better have asked us earlier as it seems we knew more about such a game than HSL ;)!

HorrorScope wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 22:18:
Well on the bright side, they knew what they had wasn't good enough.

That is a good point.

Also, why don't they just hire Wesp?

Well on the bright side, they knew what they had wasn't good enough.

Task wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 20:35:
Two things:

1. This franchise is cursed isn't it.

2. The 'good' (sad) endings for Cyberpunk seemed ambiguous as to what happens to V, it almost seemed like they made it that way either for an expansion or sequels in the future. Basically the way I see it, the 'secret' ending may end being canon, but then there are only two possibilities: A. Either he/she survived with some new advanced tech or B. V is loose in Cyberspace pretty much exactly like Ghost in The Shell.

I could see them re-adding stuff that clearly got cut before the deadline in a Director's Cut; i.e. apartments, cutscenes, the original default FemV. I'm not so sure they would be able to change story stuff.

I think people will refer to Cyberpunk 1 like Witcher 1, a cult hit. And down the line people will reference Cyberpunk 2 or 3 as the 'goat' or whatev.

True, in the Secret Ending there's still a way to for V to go off in search of a cure. I'm not so sure they couldn't change perspectives in the Endings (at least some).

At least the way I see this game is Early Release. It's one of the biggest selling games of all time and that's while it was still Broke. Once this gets running on Consoles (could be this patch v1.2 releasing this week) it's going to blow up the charts again. Sorry, my point was there's plenty of liquid cash for them to do whatever the hell they want and right now my guess is they want to kiss the ass of their customers.

Speaking of Vampire Redemption, if you haven't tried Age of Redemption your really missing out. It's the definitive Unofficial Patch.

crazedgironemo wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 18:21:

Prez wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 15:15:
The original Vampire was an unmitigated disaster at launch, so this is things progressing like normal I suppose. At least Wesp and company were there to make it awesome.

It was boring as hell, being an on the rails hack and slash, but I wouldn't call it an unmitigated disaster. Vampire the Masquerade - Redemption actually worked decently and had a mildly interesting story. Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines that came after that was fantastic but buggy and unfinished.

The original Bloodlines and the original Vampire game refer to two different things, FYI.

Yeah I forgot Redemption. I meant the first Bloodlines. Sorry about that.

Two things:

1. This franchise is cursed isn't it.

2. The 'good' (sad) endings for Cyberpunk seemed ambiguous as to what happens to V, it almost seemed like they made it that way either for an expansion or sequels in the future. Basically the way I see it, the 'secret' ending may end being canon, but then there are only two possibilities: A. Either he/she survived with some new advanced tech or B. V is loose in Cyberspace pretty much exactly like Ghost in The Shell.

I could see them re-adding stuff that clearly got cut before the deadline in a Director's Cut; i.e. apartments, cutscenes, the original default FemV. I'm not so sure they would be able to change story stuff.

I think people will refer to Cyberpunk 1 like Witcher 1, a cult hit. And down the line people will reference Cyberpunk 2 or 3 as the 'goat' or whatev.

Anyone know who at Paradox Interactive is making these decisions and/or in charge of handling Bloodlines 2?
Seriously, would like to know so an internet campaign can be started to have them ousted from their job.

Edit: I agree MoreLuckThanSkill, CyberPunk 2077 needs new or reworked Endings. The only one that comes close to acceptable is the Secret Ending.

This comment was edited on Feb 23, 2021, 19:58.

I think they should have just taking bloodlines didn't change anything other then fix it in an updated engine I would love to play that again.

That's kinda what I was hoping for too. The original game with Witcher 3 graphics would be awesome.

Prez wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 15:15:
The original Vampire was an unmitigated disaster at launch, so this is things progressing like normal I suppose. At least Wesp and company were there to make it awesome.

It was boring as hell, being an on the rails hack and slash, but I wouldn't call it an unmitigated disaster. Vampire the Masquerade - Redemption actually worked decently and had a mildly interesting story. Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines that came after that was fantastic but buggy and unfinished.

The original Bloodlines and the original Vampire game refer to two different things, FYI.

I think they should have just taking bloodlines didn't change anything other then fix it in an updated engine I would love to play that again.

a new dev is a huge setback like massive this generally could mean years of more work that needs to be done

Saboth wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 14:55:
Well, I preordered Duke Nukem 2 way back in the 90s, and it went a while before my order was cancelled, and then the game came out like 20 years later.

That was actually Duke Nukem 4 Ever.

Duke Nuke'Em 1 and 2 were actually side scroller games that came out before Duke Nuke Em 3D in the 90's.

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Feb 23, 2021, 11:56:
Almost completely unrelated, I went ahead and finished Cyberpunk 2077 finally, and I must report that at least two of the (six?) endings infuriated me greatly. I am going to do some more endings today, but I feel like the endings didn't all need to be this grim. Damn you, grimdark cyberpunk 1980s era fiction!

The Nomads ending felt like the perfect sci-fi western conclusion to me, like, note-for-note, beat-for-beat exactly what I wanted out of it.

The original Vampire was an unmitigated disaster at launch, so this is things progressing like normal I suppose. At least Wesp and company were there to make it awesome.