Verno wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 17:12:

Opinions are nothing special and people latch onto their own too much as if holding one automatically makes them immune to criticism. I think more people should probably start having this attitude if we want to reverse the decline of our nation and make no mistake, we are in decline due to this polarization.

Completely and wholeheartedly agree, it will require a meeting in the middle meaning both sides need to be willing to have enough courage to understand one another. IMO, if anything needs to be defunded, it's the major news networks/entertainment industry (that line is getting blurred between the two these days) if we're talking about people thinking their opinion means more than what it really is.

Verno wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 17:12:

Also let's all move away from labels - for example calling people ignorant is not going to move a discussion anywhere productive.

Ignorance is not a label, it's a lack of understanding. I know I'm ignorant about a number of things but I know better than to start shouting loudly as if I'm the expert. This nation is polarized because of an extreme talent for ignorance who, as a result, belittle and then pile on. This mindset is exactly what Gina Carano is speaking of.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

wow, does history have a tendency to repeat itself. The rest of that quote is incredibly disturbing....

Verno wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 17:12:
On the other hand I do read the New York Times because despite presence of op-eds I might disagree with, it is a world class news organization that generally holds itself accountable.

I rarely read any op-ed, even if I suspect I'll agree with the author. While you will occasionally see/get fact reporting inside an op-ed column I'd prefer to skip the opinion portion and just get the news/fact portions. The NYT is generally responsible in their reporting, but even they get caught making mistakes. However, at least when they do they also generally own up to their mistakes. Something Trump has never done in his entire adult life.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 16:47:
You're just assuming based on your belief system that if someone doesn't vote for the Democratic party, they're weighing the country down. Sounds pretty ignorant to me.

Wrong. It has nothing to do with any party. Did I mention any party? I only mentioned Trump. Guess what? Trump is not a party. And I even said I understood why people voted for him in 2016. There were plenty of GOP candidates I would have gladly voted for in 2016 over HRC. Trump wasn't one of them.

Your implication my information intake is biased is a reasonable concern/thought. There is a lot of biased reporting out there, especially when it comes to politics. But I can reason for myself, and I try to take information from multiple sources. But when I hear someone repeating demonstrably untrue things, I start to think of that person as a liar. Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case with over 74 million other Americans. And yeah, I have a problem with that. If you don't -- you can get down with Bobby Brown, it is your prerogative.

From what I've seen, people find the news network they agree with and tether themselves to it.

I read news from a variety of sources. Sources with fact checking, editors and consequences for misreporting. I do not get my news at say...Foxnews because they employ very few reputable journalists. On the other hand I do read the New York Times because despite presence of op-eds I might disagree with, it is a world class news organization that generally holds itself accountable. I also like to read news sources that challenge my own personal biases. Perhaps that is not what others are doing but I would say that's part of the problem. I do however shy away from things that give me little information and serve mostly as opinion filler. Opinions are nothing special and people latch onto their own too much as if holding one automatically makes them immune to criticism. I think more people should probably start having this attitude if we want to reverse the decline of our nation and make no mistake, we are in decline due to this polarization.

Also let's all move away from labels - for example calling people ignorant is not going to move a discussion anywhere productive.

Oh please, you don't need to have access to every bit of information in order to be far, far better informed that Trump supporters. In order to remain connected to reality.

Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 16:30:

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 16:19:
Honestly, the amount of hatred I've seen just on this board alone the past four years for anyone who voted for Trump; makes me truly question the future of the human race. Where's all that unity I keep hearing everyone wants? I guess it's just easier to remove the differing opinion than actually hear why half of the US doesn't think like you.

To repeat:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 22:57:
Hey, I do what I can. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I completely understand why people voted for Trump in 2016. Most people pay far less attention to politics than I do. Most people are busy living their lives, paying their bills, they don't know jack shit about politics -- they know they don't and that's fine with them. They didn't know Trump was a charlatan, who lies like a rug, who cares as much about the working man as he does mud on the bottom of his shoe. They listened to Fox, Rush, Hannity, and the rest of it and believed.

But if after four years of what Trump has said and done, you still believe he deserves your vote -- you're lost to me. You clearly have no connection with reality. Yes, I believe over 75 million US citizens have no connection with reality, in politics. Do I believe they should be gunned down? Of course not. However their ignorance is weighing this country down. And frankly, I don't have a lot of concern for them. Maybe that makes me a horrible person. So be it.

So what office do you hold in Washington? I'd be curious to know the source of your raw, untampered, unbiased information you receive that isn't fed to you. From what I've seen, people find the news network they agree with and tether themselves to it. There's bias everywhere for the need of the mighty click. Unless you are personally witness to every conversation, every press conference, you will be fed biased information. Context is everything and the news knows this.

Just because you don't believe people shouldn't be gunned down doesn't mean you think any less of them and in the next breath question whether you're a horrible person. The world has been full of ignorance, everywhere, just like you're ignorant about the opinions of the opposite side. You're just assuming based on your belief system that if someone doesn't vote for the Democratic party, they're weighing the country down. Sounds pretty ignorant to me.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 16:19:
Honestly, the amount of hatred I've seen just on this board alone the past four years for anyone who voted for Trump; makes me truly question the future of the human race. Where's all that unity I keep hearing everyone wants? I guess it's just easier to remove the differing opinion than actually hear why half of the US doesn't think like you.

To repeat:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 22:57:
Hey, I do what I can. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I completely understand why people voted for Trump in 2016. Most people pay far less attention to politics than I do. Most people are busy living their lives, paying their bills, they don't know jack shit about politics -- they know they don't and that's fine with them. They didn't know Trump was a charlatan, who lies like a rug, who cares as much about the working man as he does mud on the bottom of his shoe. They listened to Fox, Rush, Hannity, and the rest of it and believed.

But if after four years of what Trump has said and done, you still believe he deserves your vote -- you're lost to me. You clearly have no connection with reality. Yes, I believe over 75 million US citizens have no connection with reality, in politics. Do I believe they should be gunned down? Of course not. However their ignorance is weighing this country down. And frankly, I don't have a lot of concern for them. Maybe that makes me a horrible person. So be it.

Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 14:34:

Cutter wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 14:20:
Is she pro-Trump?

Which doesn't directly make her "pro-Trump", but it certainly indicates her separation from reality -- generally a prerequisite for being "pro-Trump".

She didn't say who she voted for but Hollywood doesn't allow for such a thing as an acting conservative. Seriously, why is that?

Honestly, the amount of hatred I've seen just on this board alone the past four years for anyone who voted for Trump; makes me truly question the future of the human race. Where's all that unity I keep hearing everyone wants? I guess it's just easier to remove the differing opinion than actually hear why half of the US doesn't think like you.

Regardless, if any of you actually put the words you've said here into any kind of action... The Nazi's just decided to make that goosestep and you're cowarding behind your keyboards; your mindsets are still the same. How do you convince a nation to commit mass murder? Make them believe the others are not or lesser-than human and don't deserve to share the same planet. Gosh, that all sounds really familiar from the party of love and unity.

edit: nevermind, I got it now

The takeaway here:

It's never a good idea to post on social media using your real name.

Yeah, I was responding to afka Rossini. Sorry about the confusion.

Beamer wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 14:30:
Where in America can you raise 3 kids on 1 middle class income and have that home, those cars, etc.?

Cause I was curious, I decided to look up some stats to see how this worked out for someone in middle class in Springfield, Oregon (where Simpsons is supposed to be based).

$78500 Average middle class income in Oregon (probably low for a safety officer in a nuclear facility)
$19200 30 year mortgage+insurance for median house price in Springfield
$21000 Cost to raise 3 children for 1 year
$9000 Car loan for average priced vehicle. Simpson's only had one new vehicle, so I'm assuming the second vehicle is paid for.
$1000 Food for adults. Children's cost was included above. This may be a bit low for Homer
$500 Phone

Assuming a 30% tax rate, that leaves $4,600 left per year for other items, like vacations, savings, entertainment, and other incidentals. Very little buffer, but doable.

Her gap in logic was this:
Jews were born Jews. While people convert to it and away from it, that didn't matter in the 3rd Reich. Those born Jews were persecuted for just being born as if they were a race and not a religion. Your name, your appearance, it all "gave it away".

People who hold conservative or liberal beliefs weren't born that way. They may have been born into such a home, and never seriously questioned it (just as with religion), but they can change their views. You aren't automatically a Democrat if your parents were Democrats. If your mother was a Republican and your father a Democrat, you are not a Republican with no power to change it even if you agree with your father more.

Saying someone's beliefs should be immune from consequence is NOT the same as saying someone's birth circumstances should be. Yet many love to make that false equivalence. Look at how many politicians have crossed the aisle over the decades. Not a lot, but enough.

Think if some rich doctor in Germany changed his name and put up a cross on his wall that he was immune now?

Bodolza wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 13:40:
You've got it backwards. Gina is comparing herself to the Jews. She's saying that the criticism she's been receiving for her pro-Trump political views is like how the Nazi's treated the Jews. Basically comparing the Democrats to Nazis, and claiming that it's the Dems in the government that have "made" American's turn agaist her for her political views. The "history is edited" is a nice holocaust denier dog whistle thown in for good measure.

Whoops. After a bit of further reading about her post history on various platforms, it looks like I did get it backwards.

Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 14:27:

Bodolza wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 13:40:
You've got it backwards. Gina is comparing herself to the Jews.

No, I didn't. As I would have thought my first sentence would have made clear.

I think Bodolza was replying to my post just above yours.

Cutter wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 14:20:
Is she pro-Trump?

I don't know, but I did see this in another article: "Carano previously stirred up the dust on social media with comments about mask-wearing and voter fraud."

Which doesn't directly make her "pro-Trump", but it certainly indicates her separation from reality -- generally a prerequisite for being "pro-Trump".

Cutter wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 14:20:

Bodolza wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 13:40:
You've got it backwards. Gina is comparing herself to the Jews. She's saying that the criticism she's been receiving for her pro-Trump political views is like how the Nazi's treated the Jews. Basically comparing the Democrats to Nazis, and claiming that it's the Dems in the government that have "made" American's turn agaist her for her political views. The "history is edited" is a nice holocaust denier dog whistle thown in for good measure.

Is she pro-Trump? I didn't see anything in that article or her post that said so. And history is always written by the victors to spin things their way. That's a reality and does nothing to deny the Holocaust. You're the one inferring and putting words in her mouth here. Just because people don't vote Democrat doesn't make them goosestepping Nazis. So she was fired for not marching on lockstep with the uber-lefties and you don't see a problem with that. Typical left-wing extremist reaction.

I like that Cutter defends a far right woman who got fired for comparing Democrats to Nazis by getting angry at a strawman he thinks says anyone not voting Democrat is a Nazi.

She literally called Democrats Nazis, and he's angry at his perception of Democrats calling people Nazis.

You can't write this. No one would believe it.

Bodolza wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 14:16:

I could at least understand this for white Baby Boomers. They grew up in the 50's and 60's when Unions were strong, and one working parent could support the family.

There was a great article recently about how The Simpsons is no longer possible. They were a one-income family, with a blue collar union dad, a 4 bedroom house, 2 cars, vacations, etc. They were clearly paycheck to paycheck, moreso in some episodes than others, but very squarely middle class.

Where in America can you raise 3 kids on 1 middle class income and have that home, those cars, etc.?

Bodolza wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 13:40:
You've got it backwards. Gina is comparing herself to the Jews.

No, I didn't. As I would have thought my first sentence would have made clear.

Bodolza wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 13:40:
You've got it backwards. Gina is comparing herself to the Jews. She's saying that the criticism she's been receiving for her pro-Trump political views is like how the Nazi's treated the Jews. Basically comparing the Democrats to Nazis, and claiming that it's the Dems in the government that have "made" American's turn agaist her for her political views. The "history is edited" is a nice holocaust denier dog whistle thown in for good measure.

Is she pro-Trump? I didn't see anything in that article or her post that said so. And history is always written by the victors to spin things their way. That's a reality and does nothing to deny the Holocaust. You're the one inferring and putting words in her mouth here. Just because people don't vote Democrat doesn't make them goosestepping Nazis. So she was fired for not marching on lockstep with the uber-lefties and you don't see a problem with that. Typical left-wing extremist reaction.

RedEye9 wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 13:48:
Does anyone here know what “the traditional American way of life” is?

I could at least understand this for white Baby Boomers. They grew up in the 50's and 60's when Unions were strong, and one working parent could support the family. Of course, they were viewing it through rose-colored glases, and forget that the houses were much smaller, there was a single TV and one or two phones. Kids don't notice if their parents were miserable, and the poverty and racism of the time weren't shown on Saturday morning TV.

Gen-X, though? I don't get what they're missing from their childhood. Rampant drug use? New Wave and Punk Rock? Constant threat of nuclear anihilation?