Beamer wrote on Feb 12, 2021, 11:23:
Weirdly, every other major industrial nation has managed to figure out providing healthcare for its citizens.

The insurance and healthcare companies have spent many millions on lobbying to prevent it, so it isn't too surprising...

Beamer wrote on Feb 12, 2021, 11:23:
Weirdly, every other major industrial nation has managed to figure out providing healthcare for its citizens.

I guess some people just think we're a dumber nation than Canada or France. Personally, I believe America is a great nation, but I understand others think we're a bottom of the barrel incompetent one. Shame.

Or even for non-citizens. When I studied abroad in Japan I got pretty sick with bronchitis and a secondary infection, Japanese friend showed me how to use my insurance card and walked me through my first doctors visit, when it came time to pay the bill I figured I'd be out 20-30,000 yen (about 2-300 usd), the visit and prescription for the medicine (and the doc even told me she'd give me the highest dose prescription since I was a fair bit fatter (read: slightly overweight) than most Japanese men, whole thing cost me 40 bucks, and doctors still have substantially higher wage in Japan but the gov't helps pay for a fair bit of the expenses. I got a lot of strange looks from all the other exchange students when I acted like won the lottery, they couldn't believe how expensive and byzantine our healthcare system was.

sliv wrote on Feb 12, 2021, 09:56:
...then it was not my failure...

Alas, it was your abject failure. We could discuss why but the root cause is simple. You are intellectually dishonest and refuse to address any points outside of what you think you can address with glib insults and vague generalizations. Not just in your responses to me but others as well.

So we're done.You failed at every conceivable point possible.

Weirdly, every other major industrial nation has managed to figure out providing healthcare for its citizens.

I guess some people just think we're a dumber nation than Canada or France. Personally, I believe America is a great nation, but I understand others think we're a bottom of the barrel incompetent one. Shame.

Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 20:46:

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 20:13:
I'm not part of a "some", there were a lot of people it happened to. Fortunately for you it worked in your favor, for a lot of us, it did not. So....

Also, they reported the numbers for the amount of people who signed up but little was said about the amount of people who couldn't even afford pay the first month; it was astounding.

Are you denying there were millions who previously had no healthcare coverage but were able to get it under the ACA? Are you denying you previously were not protected from being thrown under the bus by insurance companies for pre-existing conditions, but now you are? Is there another healthcare plan being proposed by someone? I admitted the ACA needs fixing. Do you want to fix it? Or do you just want to revoke the healthcare for millions of Americans?

Waiting, sliv...

Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 12, 2021, 08:56:

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 22:56:
Dude, you're right, we won't meet in the middle because you're not going to budge...

You've utterly failed in this discussion and you will continue to fail in further discussions until you understand how negotiations work. As someone claiming to have a successful business, I find it difficult to believe that you're unaware of negotiable and non-negotiable clauses which must balance to achieve a successful negotiation.

I had no intention of changing minds, my goal was to bring my perspective to what's going on which I believe I have done so with the hope that someone else may gain some perspective of their own. If this was lost on you, then it was not my failure, but yours.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 22:56:
Dude, you're right, we won't meet in the middle because you're not going to budge...

Correct. I am not going to budge on demanding that the following line of the Constitution is upheld equally for every citizen:

...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...

The rest after that quote from you is nothing short of bloviating.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 22:56:
Bottom line, I don't trust the government to control the health of the nation, they can't even control their spending...

Yet you'll ostensibly trust them to control the defense of the nation, the taxation of the nation, the diplomacy of the nation, et al? That doesn't pass basic logical thinking.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 22:56:
Ok, good job but so much for having an actual discussion. Did you learn the art of conversation and debate at your time in school?

It's difficult to have an actual discussion when you resort to ad hominems such as:

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 22:56:
Don't be so dense and close-minded.

You've utterly failed in this discussion and you will continue to fail in further discussions until you understand how negotiations work. As someone claiming to have a successful business, I find it difficult to believe that you're unaware of negotiable and non-negotiable clauses which must balance to achieve a successful negotiation.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 22:56:
Dude, you're right, we won't meet in the middle because you're not going to budge, but keep blaming everyone else.

Here's the situation. The Republicans and Democrats are in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean. The Republicans want to drill a 4 inch hole in the bottom of the boat. The Democrats don't want to drill a hole at all. Your - and by extension the current Republican party - solution is to "meet in the middle" and only drill a 2 inch hole.

No, fuck that. The Republican hypocrisy on this issue is just over the top. "Unity" only works if people are looking out for the collective general good. Republicans only seem interested in themselves how they can take personal advantage of a situation. Hell, only days after swearing an oath to be impartial, Republican senators are meeting with Trump's lawyers to go over his defense strategy. If they can't look past their own interests to do what's best for the country, there is absolutely no reason to ever consider budging on our issues in the name of a "unity" they don't give a shit about.

Dacote wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 21:15:

fakespyder wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 20:58:
Not having seen any of the Mandalorian yet, I'm curious if her character's absence is going to cause any story issues?

It won't change a thing.
They could replace her and have someone else play the part and no one would care.

They don't even need someone else to play the part. The character literally doesn't bring anything to the story. Ironically other than being shoe-horned in as a cool, asskicking, non-conforming overweight "strong" female side-kick. She is literally a female Bud Spencer. If the show was a buddy adventure, sure. It's not however, and she only appeared in a few episodes. Too many shows do this, bring in characters so they can claim to be "diverse" but literally shoe-horn them in without thought about how they are written, what their backstory is and how they can contribute to the story. Her character was actually better than most in this regard, because there was a hint of a cool backstory but was used so sparingly that her arc was never even developed.

fakespyder wrote on Feb 12, 2021, 00:39:

Dacote wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 21:15:

fakespyder wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 20:58:
Not having seen any of the Mandalorian yet, I'm curious if her character's absence is going to cause any story issues?

It won't change a thing.
They could replace her and have someone else play the part and no one would care.

Even though the internet has spoilered all the surprises in the show, I appreciate that you didn't in your reply.
cheers.

without spoilers, she was mostly a replaceable part. the only thing somewhat different about her was her physicality, but even that isn't impossible to replace. otherwise her acting was porn quality. i will say that disney announced a new star wars show called rangers of the republic, and it's my strong opinion she would've played a big part in it so it'll be interesting to see how they roll with the punches, if they even bother trying to find someone who looks like her cuz that'll probably be difficult. imo they'd be better served finding a better actress and bulking her up the way gal gadot did for WW

First off Gina Carano getting canned for her stupidity has definitely not broken Disney.

Link to CNBC article

So the people have voted with their wallets on the topic. As have I as I will be subbing Disney+ come next pay day.

Dacote wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 21:15:

fakespyder wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 20:58:
Not having seen any of the Mandalorian yet, I'm curious if her character's absence is going to cause any story issues?

It won't change a thing.
They could replace her and have someone else play the part and no one would care.

Even though the internet has spoilered all the surprises in the show, I appreciate that you didn't in your reply.
cheers.

And the color is monkey.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 22:30:

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:39:
Have you actually ever heard someone say that or are you projecting?

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have gone out of my way to type it. It and the standard variation of "Billy's parents should just work harder" bullshit. Guess where that bullshit came from? "Conservatives". The same "conservatives" who preach about the sanctity of life...so long as it only applies to the unborn.

Also, you might want to look deeply within before you accuse others of projecting or, perhaps, get to know them a bit better before you make asinine statements. But you do you. Also, learn your logical fallacies. As Beamer pointed out, that could have been construed as a strawman...if I hadn't actually heard it said with my own fucking ears.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:39:
In regards to health care, do I believe it's a right to be given free healthcare for everyone? No, I don't.

Then you and I would have no common ground to meet on, thus making it impossible to "meet in the middle" anywhere. I find it to be a moral requirement that the sick, injured, and dying are cared for regardless of their ability to pay while also not being hounded in to destitution or medical bankruptcy for seeking out care. Do you think the stories about people dying from being able to afford insulin, for example, are just a clever trick dreamed up by the media? Or the stories about people doing caravans to Canada to buy it in bulk where it is ridiculously less expensive and can be bought over the counter? The same formulations (i.e. Lantus, Novolog, etc.) that are prohibitively expensive and out of reach here in the States?

ACA was always hot garbage but it was the Republicans who poisoned the well so badly that nothing truly effective would come out of the attempt. However, that is no excuse to throw up our hands and say "It's impossible" when literally every other first world nation has figured it out to varying degrees and posseses a functional national healthcare service.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:39:
Here, I'll throw a few more tidbits about me: I'm not white, I'm hispanic; married, father of two. I graduated Summa Cum Laude after dropping out of school after 1.5 years of a failed college experience (1.2 gpa) and went back to finish my degree after working odd-and-end dead-end jobs. I now have built and own a successful business for 15 years now.

Cool. I'm a Caltech burnout and dropout who started my first business at 14. Do we need to stand up so people can clap for us or are we just supposed to stand around patting ourselves on the back? All of that was self-aggrandizing and pointless in the context of the current discussion.

Dude, you're right, we won't meet in the middle because you're not going to budge, but keep blaming everyone else. Bad thing? Republicans! It's the evil, greedy, REPUBLICANS!!! Sorry I don't believe you that someone told you that "Billy can die". Can I prove it, of course not, but if they did, you should know better than to base millions of people off of one single person's opinion. Don't be so dense and close-minded.

Bottom line, I don't trust the government to control the health of the nation, they can't even control their spending...

Caltech burnout/dropout? Ok, good job but so much for having an actual discussion. Did you learn the art of conversation and debate at your time in school? I guess you be you, too. (which is one of the dumbest thing I ever hear people say)

Prez wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 21:57:
Did she have other quotes besides the one I read about wanting tighter laws against voter fraud?

Yes, she did.

Because I didn't see anything wrong in the least with what I read. She never said that this election was won or lost because of voter fraud

Yes. Yes she did. She said "We need to clean up the election process so we are not left feeling the way we do today." She's a Trump supporter, so "feeling the way we do today" means feeling bad about Trump losing the election. "We need to clean up the election process" means she thinks that the election process was "dirty". So she thinks the Trump lost (leading her to feel the way she did on election day) because the election process was dirty, which is exactly the type of statements that lead directly to the insurrection.

The next line in the tweet was "Put laws in place that protect us against voter fraud." This is an outright fradulent claim. We have many laws and processes in place to protect against voter fraud, and there's ample evidence that they're working since the Republican's weren't able to prove any instances of widespread voter fraud in the last election. And that's just the first 2 lines of the post.

Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:40:
Don't blame you BoP for thinking the US is beyond salvaging. But we have to hope it is, as futile as that hope may seem...

I am going to say this as tactfully as possible. One can hope that the meteor hurtling directly at them isn't going to turn them in goo on the molecular level when it hits...but it's still going to happen.

The US cannot hope or soft shoe its way out of its current cultural sickness. As a country, it has to completely overhaul its views on the rights and well-being of citizens over that of corporations and religious zealotry. However, if we're brutally honest, that isn't going to happen in either your or my lifetime. Thus it will continue to slip further down the drain (because it's long past finished circling it) until it becomes another has-been like France, Britain, Germany, Rome, and other former world powers.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:39:
Have you actually ever heard someone say that or are you projecting?

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have gone out of my way to type it. It and the standard variation of "Billy's parents should just work harder" bullshit. Guess where that bullshit came from? "Conservatives". The same "conservatives" who preach about the sanctity of life...so long as it only applies to the unborn.

Also, you might want to look deeply within before you accuse others of projecting or, perhaps, get to know them a bit better before you make asinine statements. But you do you. Also, learn your logical fallacies. As Beamer pointed out, that could have been construed as a strawman...if I hadn't actually heard it said with my own fucking ears.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:39:
In regards to health care, do I believe it's a right to be given free healthcare for everyone? No, I don't.

Then you and I would have no common ground to meet on, thus making it impossible to "meet in the middle" anywhere. I find it to be a moral requirement that the sick, injured, and dying are cared for regardless of their ability to pay while also not being hounded in to destitution or medical bankruptcy for seeking out care. Do you think the stories about people dying from being able to afford insulin, for example, are just a clever trick dreamed up by the media? Or the stories about people doing caravans to Canada to buy it in bulk where it is ridiculously less expensive and can be bought over the counter? The same formulations (i.e. Lantus, Novolog, etc.) that are prohibitively expensive and out of reach here in the States?

ACA was always hot garbage but it was the Republicans who poisoned the well so badly that nothing truly effective would come out of the attempt. However, that is no excuse to throw up our hands and say "It's impossible" when literally every other first world nation has figured it out to varying degrees and posseses a functional national healthcare service.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:39:
Here, I'll throw a few more tidbits about me: I'm not white, I'm hispanic; married, father of two. I graduated Summa Cum Laude after dropping out of school after 1.5 years of a failed college experience (1.2 gpa) and went back to finish my degree after working odd-and-end dead-end jobs. I now have built and own a successful business for 15 years now.

Cool. I'm a Caltech burnout and dropout who started my first business at 14. Do we need to stand up so people can clap for us or are we just supposed to stand around patting ourselves on the back? All of that was self-aggrandizing and pointless in the context of the current discussion.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 18:30:
the overabundant use of "strawman"; almost like it's Life's Word of the Year.

sliv wrote on Feb 11, 2021, 19:39:

Have you actually ever heard someone say that or are you projecting?

That's not a projection, that's a strawman. No wonder you're complaining about it's use, you don't know what it means.

A projection is when you perceive others to be doing what you do. An example is Trump accusing others of lying. He's projecting his behavior upon them.

A strawman is an argument no one actually made, taken from "tilting at straw."

What you meant to ask is if it was a strawman. Which is hugely ironic.

During a time when access to information has never been more available, with the capacity to record-keep text/audio/video practically infinite, and our ability to communicate with each other is now instant... yet the truth to the reality around us still remains ambiguous.

Did she have other quotes besides the one I read about wanting tighter laws against voter fraud? Because I didn't see anything wrong in the least with what I read. She never said that this election was won or lost because of voter fraud; based on the only post I read from her prior to the Jewish one was that she was calling for common sense laws that remove the question that votes were legit so we don't have these goofy lawsuit barrages again. At least that's the way I read it...