Cutter wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:32:

PHJF wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:03:
Can you please stop pretending 40K doesn't exist?

Also, I'm reading some 40K comics atm and they all seem to revolve around the human perspective - Astartes in particular - are there any, or novels - that delve into the perspective of the other factions?

Fabius Bile. Not a comic though. Recommend the audio books read by John Banks, starting with Primogenitor, then Clone Lord and finally Manflayer

Warhammer Fanboy here: There can never be too many Warhammer based RTS.

Go SEGA!

The Total War Warhammer titles so far totally nailed it.

It's good to see a series that actually improves with each iteration, rather than get watered down like what seems to be the trend in AAA titles these days.

Orogogus wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 20:02:

Cutter wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 19:22:
Ahh thanks for that. I'd definitely like to check out some of the other factions perspectives. The Astartes are just too one dimensional for my tastes. Yeah, yeah honor and courage, we get it.

There are definitely lots of stories from the viewpoint of other human factions -- Imperial Guard, Inquisition, Adeptus Sororitas, at least one for the Heresy-era Adeptus Custodes. I think the Commissar Ciaphas Cain series is popular for people who want to take a break from grimdark, honor and genetically enhanced supersoldiers.

I might buy this, maybe? I did buy the second one (skipped the first one) but I never really got into it. Felt a bit underdeveloped and quite buggy, but I did play it for about 30-40hours, which is quite a bit for me lately. I heard good things about the expansions though, however I never got into them due to cost/time and just no real incentive to play.

I do like Total War games, Rome was probably my favorite. However I would kill for a Warhammer40k Total War game. No idea if or how it could be done, since it includes space/air combat, but maybe they could place it on an underworld of some kind or a hiveworld or something, so the fluff makes sense. WH40K Total War would totally own.

Cutter wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 19:22:
Ahh thanks for that. I'd definitely like to check out some of the other factions perspectives. The Astartes are just too one dimensional for my tastes. Yeah, yeah honor and courage, we get it.

There are definitely lots of stories from the viewpoint of other human factions -- Imperial Guard, Inquisition, Adeptus Sororitas, at least one for the Heresy-era Adeptus Custodes. I think the Commissar Ciaphas Cain series is popular for people who want to take a break from grimdark, honor and genetically enhanced supersoldiers.

Droniac wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 18:54:
Yeah, it certainly isn't exclusive anymore. They're throwing Warhammer licenses at anyone with a design document these days. But 40K game licensing was exclusive during the THQ days, which was why CA/SEGA couldn't license 40K for a Total War game in 2012.

Ya. I just don't think the historical THQ license and the parent company really matter now when it comes to CA making a 40K game.

As for what 40K could bring to a Total War game. To a bog-standard Total War formula, probably not much. That likely wouldn't be a good fit, as you pointed out. Instead I'd imagine they'd shift the formula slightly in a way that has been done before. Namely, some developers of regular C&C-style RTS have made attempts to emulate Total War in the past, with sci-fi properties, to great success. Those games are Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Star Wars: Empire at War. CA could certainly do a take similar to those titles and it'd be far less of a departure from the Total War formula than it was from the Dawn of War and Petroglyph (C&C) formulas. There's certainly ways to make 40K work and still largely keep Total War gameplay and design recognizable.

Even Dune II had a strategic map, presenting simple "Do I want to fight the Harkonnens here or the Ordos there?" choices. From what I remember, Dark Crusade wasn't much more complicated than that, just adding some global bonuses and upgrades into the mix (also, making it an actual game instead of a Choose Your Own Adventure). To me that's still just a normal RTS; I can't speak to Empire at War. I feel like the Total War formula includes diplomacy, building up provinces, and recruiting armies from the strategic layer, elements which don't seem to mesh well with 40K. What are the recognizable features of a Total War game that would work well with 40K? Is it the rectangular unit formations? Or just the zoomed-out view of the battle?

Verno wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 16:41:
The whole point of making a third is to extend the gameplay, much like they did with the second. The second game was a massive iteration over the first, they are not even close to the same experience except on a surface level.

Really looking forward to this and expecting a lot of improvements in the siege area.

I mean. .hype.. but it's coming in what.. 6 months? Early release announcement or what?

Many, if not most games announce over a year or more in advance now. 6 months is actually fairly conservative.

I know, but it just seems odd... 6-8 months is a long wait. Will they be trickling out new content every week to keep us hyped? Because I am still more hyped for the last WH2 patch/DLC ... that said, I have WH3 pre-ordered and I do not care how much they change about sieges, I get to play with demons in the chaos realm itself that's already selling it for me. (But everyone has their own likes in Warhammer.. so yea)

Orogogus wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:40:

Cutter wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:32:

PHJF wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:03:
Can you please stop pretending 40K doesn't exist?

Yeah but are you totes gonna' play this?

Darktide is coming and that's 40K or do you want TW 40K specifically?

Also, I'm reading some 40K comics atm and they all seem to revolve around the human perspective - Astartes in particular - are there any, or novels - that delve into the perspective of the other factions?

There's a fair amount of stories for Chaos if you count the Horus Heresy era novels, and just a handful for Orks, Eldar and Necrons. The Infinite and the Divine was a recent Necron book, and people seem to have liked it. I don't think there's anything from the Tyranid viewpoint. There might some stories for Genestealer Cult and Dark Eldar, but I'm not aware of them.

Ahh thanks for that. I'd definitely like to check out some of the other factions perspectives. The Astartes are just too one dimensional for my tastes. Yeah, yeah honor and courage, we get it.

Orogogus wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 14:08:
I'm not under the impression that there's any kind of exclusive licensing going on for any of GW's properties. So I assume it's negotiated on a game-by-game basis (or trilogy, in the case of the Total Warhammer series). If CA wanted to make a 40K game, they'd go to GW, say they want to make Total War: 40K, then sign a contract saying who gets how much of the profits.

That said, I don't really see what Total War brings to a 40K game. Why not just make another real-time strategy game? The Total War strategic layer doesn't seem particularly suited to a game set in modern or futuristic times. Dawn of War has a barracks spitting out Marines or whatever, and that's kind of fine in a video gamey way, but on a world map scale most of the armies really shouldn't be recruiting troops on-planet.

Yeah, it certainly isn't exclusive anymore. They're throwing Warhammer licenses at anyone with a design document these days. But 40K game licensing was exclusive during the THQ days, which was why CA/SEGA couldn't license 40K for a Total War game in 2012.

As for what 40K could bring to a Total War game. To a bog-standard Total War formula, probably not much. That likely wouldn't be a good fit, as you pointed out. Instead I'd imagine they'd shift the formula slightly in a way that has been done before. Namely, some developers of regular C&C-style RTS have made attempts to emulate Total War in the past, with sci-fi properties, to great success. Those games are Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and Star Wars: Empire at War. CA could certainly do a take similar to those titles and it'd be far less of a departure from the Total War formula than it was from the Dawn of War and Petroglyph (C&C) formulas. There's certainly ways to make 40K work and still largely keep Total War gameplay and design recognizable.

There could be great benefits to CA stepping out of their comfort zone a little. Triumph did it with Age of Wonders, and managed to make that formula work in space with Planetfall. And when Firaxis went outside their comfort zone and created a futuristic Civ game, they created one of the best Civ games to date: Alpha Centauri. Amplitude meanwhile took their rather mediocre 4X Endless Space 1 formula and created a wonderful and far superior fantasy/sci-fi mix in Endless Legend. Granted, such unusual diversions can also crash and burn like Sid Meier's Starships...

Fine... *digs for wallet*

Darks wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 16:22:
Pointless to make a number 3. once you played both previous games, you pretty much played them all. rinse and repeat!!!

The whole point of making a third is to extend the gameplay, much like they did with the second. The second game was a massive iteration over the first, they are not even close to the same experience except on a surface level.

Really looking forward to this and expecting a lot of improvements in the siege area.

I mean. .hype.. but it's coming in what.. 6 months? Early release announcement or what?

Many, if not most games announce over a year or more in advance now. 6 months is actually fairly conservative.

Darks wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 16:22:
Pointless to make a number 3. once you played both previous games, you pretty much played them all. rinse and repeat!!!

Much like the Warhammer games. Once you've played one game made up of Go-Bot versions of Tolkien races, you've played them all.

Pointless to make a number 3. once you played both previous games, you pretty much played them all. rinse and repeat!!!

Meh. I would have preferred CA did Medieval 3.

Slightly off topic, TW:WH 2 + DLC is still like $160, they need to put that all into a GotY version so I can pick it up for like $20, and wait 3-4 years to buy TW:WH3.

Droniac wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:45:

Braden wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:23:
Apparently they can't do 40k because they don't have the license. They had to clarify this back in 2012 when they announced the first game in the series.

That no longer applies.

At the time they made that statement, Games Workshop was being very stingy with their Warhammer licenses. Only THQ had a license for 40K.

A year later SEGA bought both Relic Entertainment and that 40K license when THQ went under. They're now the publishers on record for games like Space Marine and the Dawn of War franchise. Dawn of War 3 was even designed and developed entirely under SEGA Europe's watch. SEGA Europe is also the branch that Creative Assembly is part of. So if CA wants to make a 40K game, they can do so. I wouldn't be surprised if they do it after this fantasy one, as they only promised three fantasy games. You can see the same happening with the Vermintide developers, who made two fantasy variants and are now developing a 40K take on that franchise called Darktide.

I'm not under the impression that there's any kind of exclusive licensing going on for any of GW's properties. So I assume it's negotiated on a game-by-game basis (or trilogy, in the case of the Total Warhammer series). If CA wanted to make a 40K game, they'd go to GW, say they want to make Total War: 40K, then sign a contract saying who gets how much of the profits.

That said, I don't really see what Total War brings to a 40K game. Why not just make another real-time strategy game? The Total War strategic layer doesn't seem particularly suited to a game set in modern or futuristic times. Dawn of War has a barracks spitting out Marines or whatever, and that's kind of fine in a video gamey way, but on a world map scale most of the armies really shouldn't be recruiting troops on-planet.

They're getting towards a planetary annihilation size map for Mortal Empires

I mean. .hype.. but it's coming in what.. 6 months? Early release announcement or what?

Braden wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:23:
Apparently they can't do 40k because they don't have the license. They had to clarify this back in 2012 when they announced the first game in the series.

That no longer applies.

At the time they made that statement, Games Workshop was being very stingy with their Warhammer licenses. Only THQ had a license for 40K.

A year later SEGA bought both Relic Entertainment and that 40K license when THQ went under. They're now the publishers on record for games like Space Marine and the Dawn of War franchise. Dawn of War 3 was even designed and developed entirely under SEGA Europe's watch. SEGA Europe is also the branch that Creative Assembly is part of. So if CA wants to make a 40K game, they can do so. I wouldn't be surprised if they do it after this fantasy one, as they only promised three fantasy games. You can see the same happening with the Vermintide developers, who made two fantasy variants and are now developing a 40K take on that franchise called Darktide.

Cutter wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:32:

PHJF wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:03:
Can you please stop pretending 40K doesn't exist?

Yeah but are you totes gonna' play this?

Darktide is coming and that's 40K or do you want TW 40K specifically?

Also, I'm reading some 40K comics atm and they all seem to revolve around the human perspective - Astartes in particular - are there any, or novels - that delve into the perspective of the other factions?

There's a fair amount of stories for Chaos if you count the Horus Heresy era novels, and just a handful for Orks, Eldar and Necrons. The Infinite and the Divine was a recent Necron book, and people seem to have liked it. I don't think there's anything from the Tyranid viewpoint. There might some stories for Genestealer Cult and Dark Eldar, but I'm not aware of them.

PHJF wrote on Feb 3, 2021, 13:03:
Can you please stop pretending 40K doesn't exist?

Yeah but are you totes gonna' play this?

Darktide is coming and that's 40K or do you want TW 40K specifically?

Also, I'm reading some 40K comics atm and they all seem to revolve around the human perspective - Astartes in particular - are there any, or novels - that delve into the perspective of the other factions?