We should have started a separate thread for this topic.
Jivaro, I hope you see this and it provides further insight.
NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro speaks with political science professor Karleen West about her mother who joined the insurrection at the Capitol last month, and the opinion piece she wrote about it. My Mother The Insurrectionist

Here is what political science professor Karleen West wrote in Syracuse.com
I’ve spent my career studying insurrection. Then my mom was in one (Commentary)
snippet

Like so many other Americans, my mom was radicalized by one of our country’s major parties. It’s time that the Republicans end their support of authoritarian tactics to ensure that citizens like my mom—and our democracy—remain secure.
,.,.,.
Using strategies that could easily be drawn from the playbooks of Latin American dictators, today’s Republican Party not only radicalized my mom, it also brought about the greatest threat to American democracy in recent history.

Jivaro wrote on Jan 26, 2021, 18:51:
I am so confused about the states now.

When I was born (all those years ago) everyone was making jokes about how crazy California was and how the folks in the deep south were a bit...backwards.

Now Florida Man/Woman/Dog/Crocodile/etc is the crazy stereotype and Oregon and Arizona seem to want to take over where Georgia and Alabama left off.

Did the same people just move to a different place?

The crazy is everywhere.

I am so confused about the states now.

When I was born (all those years ago) everyone was making jokes about how crazy California was and how the folks in the deep south were a bit...backwards.

Now Florida Man/Woman/Dog/Crocodile/etc is the crazy stereotype and Oregon and Arizona seem to want to take over where Georgia and Alabama left off.

Did the same people just move to a different place?

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 26, 2021, 13:08:
If that leaves you dumbfound, check out what the Oregon GOP is saying...

yikes
I see what you mean.
They might as well change their name to Qregon GQP.

If that leaves you dumbfound, check out what the Oregon GOP is saying...

How to Qanon:
Start with saying "I Heard" followed by a theory
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/26/opinion/trump-qanon-washington-capitol-hill.html

For the past three weeks, a group of Trump supporters and QAnon believers met online, swapped theories and eagerly awaited the conspiracy’s violent climax. I was listening in. This is what they sounded like.

I’m at a loss for words

Jivaro wrote on Jan 23, 2021, 14:48:

You have zero to feel bad about. Seriously. My family is going through the same shit that many many others are going through. I shared, and continue sharing, because I don't think the media talking about it is good enough for many people. (and I am not sure it should be) They have to hear it from people they consider "real". The politicians talking about affected families that aren't their own means very little to the average person right now because we don't trust our politicians. (Except maybe Bernie, everybody believes he is for real regardless of affiliation.) Even then, they might not believe it, and well...it is what it is I guess.

My step-sister will deserve being held accountable for her actions and my father has himself to blame for our infrequent conversations....as you alluded to in your own post about your dad. We have a very similar family dynamic there, including the step-mom bit.



Thanks for that, and good luck bringing your stepsister back to the fold.

I'm a huge Bernie fan, too. He sometimes is the only one who seems sincere out of the whole lot of them. He takes seriously the idea that he represents the will of the people, and may be the most non-self-interest motivated chap on the hill. What to do about Josh and Ted? It's a shame.

As for family, what are you gonna do? My dad just turned 80, stepmom's 12 years younger, and while she's a nice lady and undoubtedly very good for him, she's pure MAGA. It's weird, I don't hate her or anything, she's very well intentioned, it just makes family feel like yet another casualty of 2020. Here's to a brighter future.

This thread makes me thankful that my parents and I are on the same wavelength.

LordSteev wrote on Jan 22, 2021, 23:44:

Jivaro wrote on Jan 22, 2021, 18:05:

My birth father is that kind of Trumper. He takes pride in the "party over country" philosophy that absolutely terrifies me because, in his mind, the country doesn't exist without his party doing all the things. It's some pretty amazing mental gymnastics to listen to.

When I posted the other night, I'd had too much coffee and not enough sleep, and my words may have come across as too sharp. After, when you mentioned a troubled family member, I felt pretty bad and I'm sorry if anything I said added to the pain of what you're going through.

You have zero to feel bad about. Seriously. My family is going through the same shit that many many others are going through. I shared, and continue sharing, because I don't think the media talking about it is good enough for many people. (and I am not sure it should be) They have to hear it from people they consider "real". The politicians talking about affected families that aren't their own means very little to the average person right now because we don't trust our politicians. (Except maybe Bernie, everybody believes he is for real regardless of affiliation.) Even then, they might not believe it, and well...it is what it is I guess.

My step-sister will deserve being held accountable for her actions and my father has himself to blame for our infrequent conversations....as you alluded to in your own post about your dad. We have a very similar family dynamic there, including the step-mom bit.

Family, the tie that binds - and can wrap around your neck if you’re not careful...

“My wife guarded the Capitol. My mom joined the horde surrounding it.”
Washington Post paywall free http://archive.today/5XTIA

Jivaro wrote on Jan 22, 2021, 18:05:

My birth father is that kind of Trumper. He takes pride in the "party over country" philosophy that absolutely terrifies me because, in his mind, the country doesn't exist without his party doing all the things. It's some pretty amazing mental gymnastics to listen to.

When I posted the other night, I'd had too much coffee and not enough sleep, and my words may have come across as too sharp. After, when you mentioned a troubled family member, I felt pretty bad and I'm sorry if anything I said added to the pain of what you're going through.

jdreyer wrote on Jan 22, 2021, 14:44:


I think there's a hard core of millions of Trumpers. But most of the people who voted for him did not because they think Trump is great, but because they prefer Republican policies on business, religion, etc.

You are right about this. My father and step-mother are core republicans. The family wars have been absolutely fantastic. I can get that four years ago, if you are a core republican, you are most likely going to vote for the republican candidate, no matter who it is. What I can't understand is the willingness to vote for a dictator four years later who has so often shown his true colors over that period of time.

Sadly, my father, the same man who taught me rational thinking and to question the surface value of most things, lets my stepmother get the best of him sometimes, and most of their news is coming directly from Fox. I haven't even spoken to either of them since the turnip farmers stormed the capitol, because I know I'll cringe and die a little inside to hear them defend it.

jdreyer wrote on Jan 22, 2021, 14:44:

LordSteev wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 16:54:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 15:26:

NKD wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 00:30:
Meanwhile, Trumpers having mental breakdowns.

Uh... I'm not sure I believe that. And if I did, it would be sad not funny.

I don't know....you could be Mother Theresa and somebody would try to out-moral you on the internet. I read that article by the game developer about Qanon, and while he makes some great points, I'm not so convinced people are led unknowingly into mind traps like he thinks. To me it seems more like willful self-deception.

Over the last 4 years, I've lost faith in roughly half of my country. Who would have believed that 75 million voters went through the same time period and still thought King Donald was the best solution to lead us into his fictional brave future?

I DO think an idiot crying out for help from Trump IS funny, and not worthy of pity. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm just saying I can picture this same woman holding a torch and screaming 'burn the witch!', and after 4 years of this mind-numbing stupidity, I'm beyond feeling sorry for self delusional fools. Maybe that's a fault in MY make-up, but really, I've had it.

I think there's a hard core of millions of Trumpers. But most of the people who voted for him did not because they think Trump is great, but because they prefer Republican policies on business, religion, etc.

My birth father is that kind of Trumper. He takes pride in the "party over country" philosophy that absolutely terrifies me because, in his mind, the country doesn't exist without his party doing all the things. It's some pretty amazing mental gymnastics to listen to.

LordSteev wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 16:54:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 15:26:

NKD wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 00:30:
Meanwhile, Trumpers having mental breakdowns.

Uh... I'm not sure I believe that. And if I did, it would be sad not funny.

I don't know....you could be Mother Theresa and somebody would try to out-moral you on the internet. I read that article by the game developer about Qanon, and while he makes some great points, I'm not so convinced people are led unknowingly into mind traps like he thinks. To me it seems more like willful self-deception.

Over the last 4 years, I've lost faith in roughly half of my country. Who would have believed that 75 million voters went through the same time period and still thought King Donald was the best solution to lead us into his fictional brave future?

I DO think an idiot crying out for help from Trump IS funny, and not worthy of pity. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm just saying I can picture this same woman holding a torch and screaming 'burn the witch!', and after 4 years of this mind-numbing stupidity, I'm beyond feeling sorry for self delusional fools. Maybe that's a fault in MY make-up, but really, I've had it.

I think there's a hard core of millions of Trumpers. But most of the people who voted for him did not because they think Trump is great, but because they prefer Republican policies on business, religion, etc.

exactamundo....as the Fonz would say.

Jivaro wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 20:25:
meh...for some it will be a trickle, some it will be a flood. For some folks reality is crashing down all at once and they are LOSING it. (ex lady in video) Others will cling to random bits of things that they are sure were true and each one will have to be individually disproven. You would think that if they are wrong about the BIG stuff they might hesitate a bit on the little stuff but these type of things are built up over time on a mountain of lies. It's why they earned the cult tag from the rest of the population regardless of political affiliation. Storming the Capitol, shitting on the floor and writing on the walls with it, killing a cop.....all of that is the equivalent of drinking Jim Jones' kool-aid.

My current experience with my family member is the latter. No massive meltdown, just a bunch of "Hillary must have..." type of stuff.
She is willing to forgo family relationships...even with her kids...she is so certain of her QAnon/racist/Trump BS. She has no proof of anything and will concede that point as proof itself. (seriously) She will say things like "I am a pacifist" but then say that if people gotta die to prove QAnon right, then that is what is going to happen. What do you do with that?

I know some of you are still on this train, and all I can say is get off before you hurt anyone else. I guarantee you already hurt somebody.

npr
What's Ahead For QAnon after President Biden's Inauguration?

meh...for some it will be a trickle, some it will be a flood. For some folks reality is crashing down all at once and they are LOSING it. (ex lady in video) Others will cling to random bits of things that they are sure were true and each one will have to be individually disproven. You would think that if they are wrong about the BIG stuff they might hesitate a bit on the little stuff but these type of things are built up over time on a mountain of lies. It's why they earned the cult tag from the rest of the population regardless of political affiliation. Storming the Capitol, shitting on the floor and writing on the walls with it, killing a cop.....all of that is the equivalent of drinking Jim Jones' kool-aid.

My current experience with my family member is the latter. No massive meltdown, just a bunch of "Hillary must have..." type of stuff.
She is willing to forgo family relationships...even with her kids...she is so certain of her QAnon/racist/Trump BS. She has no proof of anything and will concede that point as proof itself. (seriously) She will say things like "I am a pacifist" but then say that if people gotta die to prove QAnon right, then that is what is going to happen. What do you do with that?

I know some of you are still on this train, and all I can say is get off before you hurt anyone else. I guarantee you already hurt somebody.

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 19:18:
And what would you call it when the Trump administration said they were holding back half the vaccine doses to ensure people could get the required second doses... and then it was revealed there actually was no hold back?

Anyone with a brain would call him a lying worthless sack of shit.

But it's cute that people don't understand that anything Jeff would have done up till now wouldn't have helped anyways.

Some people live in a dream bubble of the dotard's creation. And that's sad.

Darks wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 19:12:
That's not the point, the point is, he should have offered and said that hey, we are there for you when you are ready. He didn't, again hes a fucking hypocrite!

And what would you call it when the Trump administration said they were holding back half the vaccine doses to ensure people could get the required second doses... and then it was revealed there actually was no hold back?

Orogogus wrote on Jan 21, 2021, 02:36:

anonymous anonymous wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 21:40:
Amazon didn't offer the Trump administration resources for the vaccine rollout? Nice that Bezos puts politics over peoples' lives.

Some basic critical thinking here.

Has the rollout happened yet?

"We are prepared to move quickly once vaccines are available."

No, it hasn't. We're vaccinating health care workers and high risk populations. Trump's former HHS head estimated that vaccines will be available to the general public in Q2. So what could Amazon have offered the Trump administration?

That's not the point, the point is, he should have offered and said that hey, we are there for you when you are ready. He didn't, again hes a fucking hypocrite!