1badmf wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 23:47:
the greatest travesty here is the naked abuse and corruption of the pardon power. the founders intended it to rectify glaring injustices, not use as monopoly-esque get out of jail free cards for your clearly guilty cronies and hatchetmen. no one blinks an eye and just moves on because that's just what we've come to expect from the office of the president now.

Every president has had the occasional questionable pardon here or there (Mark Rich sez hi), but nothing to this scale. Trump kicked over the apple cart for a lot of things that were "norms" that weren't codified laws. This pardoning of dozens of his convicted cronies was just the latest of many.

1badmf wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 23:47:
the greatest travesty here is the naked abuse and corruption of the pardon power. the founders intended it to rectify glaring injustices, not use as monopoly-esque get out of jail free cards for your clearly guilty cronies and hatchetmen. no one blinks an eye and just moves on because that's just what we've come to expect from the office of the president now.

As bad as Trump's pardons were, it could have been worse. I figured it was a coin flip if he would do a pre-empitive, widely encompassing pardon for the people who attacked the capital. At least he didn't do that... (yeah, I know... terribly low bar)

the greatest travesty here is the naked abuse and corruption of the pardon power. the founders intended it to rectify glaring injustices, not use as monopoly-esque get out of jail free cards for your clearly guilty cronies and hatchetmen. no one blinks an eye and just moves on because that's just what we've come to expect from the office of the president now.

Sepharo wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 20:53:
The man was insanely corrupt, and got into office via family connections, he's still believes he did nothing wrong to this day.

Gee, for some reason that sounds vaguely familiar....

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 20:04:
I will admit even though I live in the MidWest I hadn't previously heard of Kwame Kilpatrick. But the following statement from the article Redeye linked indicates he wasn't hated by everyone:

Trump's decision to commute the disgraced former mayor's term was met with praise from some lawmakers, residents and clergy...

So, while you might be right that you could find 67 Senators to vote against his pardon, I wouldn't bet my house on it.

It really just is his friends and political allies though. You'd have to be familiar with the dynamics here. There's an old Detroit politics contingent that while sidelined for the past decade or so, still exists. Thankfully their recent candidates have lost badly but they still enter on family name recognition etc.
The man was insanely corrupt, and got into office via family connections, he's still believes he did nothing wrong to this day.

I will admit even though I live in the MidWest I hadn't previously heard of Kwame Kilpatrick. But the following statement from the article Redeye linked indicates he wasn't hated by everyone:

Trump's decision to commute the disgraced former mayor's term was met with praise from some lawmakers, residents and clergy...

So, while you might be right that you could find 67 Senators to vote against his pardon, I wouldn't bet my house on it.

Sepharo wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 19:39:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 19:27:
Oh, and additionally on pardons. I know this will never happen -- but I'd like to see some changes to the pardon power:

1) A requirement any pardon be registered/recorded/whatever with the Justice Department and it be a public record.
2) That a member of the Senate can delay a pardon by 30 days, or until a vote by the Senate. The Senate can veto the pardon with a 2/3 vote of the members present.

Even if that did happen, which as I said it won't, I suspect it we might never see a veto of a pardon. I mean, if those rules were already in place I doubt there would be 17 GOP Senators who would vote to veto any of those pardons. (well, maybe the Blackwater guys, but I doubt that even)

I'd say pretty much nobody wanted Kwame Kilpatrick out of jail other than his friends and family.
That one was very clearly just a "fuck you" from Trump to the city of Detroit.

How would it be any different then the F U he did to the United States?
Kwame Kilpatrick's commutation met with praise, scorn

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 19:27:
Oh, and additionally on pardons. I know this will never happen -- but I'd like to see some changes to the pardon power:

1) A requirement any pardon be registered/recorded/whatever with the Justice Department and it be a public record.
2) That a member of the Senate can delay a pardon by 30 days, or until a vote by the Senate. The Senate can veto the pardon with a 2/3 vote of the members present.

Even if that did happen, which as I said it won't, I suspect it we might never see a veto of a pardon. I mean, if those rules were already in place I doubt there would be 17 GOP Senators who would vote to veto any of those pardons. (well, maybe the Blackwater guys, but I doubt that even)

I'd say pretty much nobody wanted Kwame Kilpatrick out of jail other than his friends and family.
That one was very clearly just a "fuck you" from Trump to the city of Detroit.

Oh, and additionally on pardons. I know this will never happen -- but I'd like to see some changes to the pardon power:

1) A requirement any pardon be registered/recorded/whatever with the Justice Department and it be a public record.
2) That a member of the Senate can delay a pardon by 30 days, or until a vote by the Senate. The Senate can veto the pardon with a 2/3 vote of the members present.

Even if that did happen, which as I said it won't, I suspect it we might never see a veto of a pardon. I mean, if those rules were already in place I doubt there would be 17 GOP Senators who would vote to veto any of those pardons. (well, maybe the Blackwater guys, but I doubt that even)

Yeah baby let them roll! Yeehaw.

I only recently became aware of the "risk" of pardoning his children -- that it might prevent them from "taking the 5th" in a future legal proceeding. That risk is probably why he didn't, as far as we know, pardon his children or other close associates. What do I mean by "as far as we know"? Well it is possible he issued "secret" pardons. Pardons known only to Trump, the lawyer who prepared it and whomever he gave it to. There is no requirement for notice to anyone about the granting of a pardon. I know it sounds conspiracy-like thought process but if anyone was going to do something like that, it would be Trump. Only time will tell...

El Pit wrote on Jan 20, 2021, 13:49:
Who?

Amen

Who?