jdreyer wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 20:45:

Dunkirk wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 20:39:

bigspender wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 17:50:
REMOVED

This is an even more egregious incitement to violence than what got Trump banned from Twitter.

On the one hand, sure. On the other hand, if the Capitol police had responded with appropriate force there would have been more deaths, but there would not have been the chance of a repeat. Right now on Parler, the same people are planning more activities in the 16th, 17th, and 19th because they view the activities on the 6th as a rousing success.

The difference between Bigspenders post and 45s encitement to violence is that 5 people are dead due to what the president of the United States said but there will be zero deaths caused by Bigspenders post.

Days in advance of the 6th I had predicted, in my circle of friends, that there would be 20 to 40 deaths.
Luckily I was wrong, all the mob had going for them was ignorance, Confederate flags and a zip tie (I'm not including the pipe bombs spread about town or the Molotov cocktails and firearms found in the vehicle).
Further bloodshed was prevented by the capital police who failed miserably at their only job.

I hope the ignorati have got it out of their system and have learned a lesson, I truly do.
But if not, Washington DC will be prepared should they try anything else and the response will be swift and a exhibit "peaceful BLM March" levels of appropriate.

DarkCntry wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 20:45:

Either way, the original statement is pretty idiotic but it is in no way comparable to what Trump did.

Amazon Web Services is going to ban Parler from using its servers because someone said "someone ought to show up at their data center with explosives." That, too, is merely a "desired outcome." To say that the GP post is "not comparable" is literally insane, as in, not rational thinking. The amount of moral deflection on this whole subject according to which side you favor is telling.

El Pit, I don't know how many if any of those things will ever happen in the US. I do know I probably have 15-20 years left on this planet and that I won't live to see it. Some of it, maybe -- if we are lucky. But I sincerely doubt it.

It is a very difficult situation that has been built up over decades by poor education and the massive social selection or economic pressure on most people. And it cannot be changed within years, it will take decades. The very roots of the nation will have to change - no more "God created dinosaurs and people and the United States as the paradise" teaching in schools, make it SCIENCE only. Stop letting people teach BS to kids because in the end they will believe even complete morons like The Donald. The US needs FREE education based on science by well-trained (and therefore expensive) teachers. Start there - educate your citizens at young age, or reap the harvest you have sown later with psychos rioting in Washington. Don't allow homeschooling - don't let idiots produce new, younger idiots. Stop this. And pay TAXES, yes, TAXES, even HIGHER TAXES to make good education possible. And for the love of God, it is neither COMMUNIST nor NANNY STATE if you got solid unemployment benefits even for a year to help people who have lost their jobs to not lose everything else, too, because once they're out on the streets, the way back is very, VERY difficult. Also, they could say that they got nothing else to lose and suddenly fall for Trump version 2.0. And yes, this needs money, TAX money, so you might want to pay TAXES. Also: public healthcare. Free basic public healthcare, free for every US citizen. Make it happen. A sick citizen will not go to work and will not pay taxes, a healthy citizen will. Public healthcare is making profit - believe it or not. And it ALSO takes the pressure from people who are sick and cannot make ends meet anymore. Guess what? Yes, you will have to pay TAXES for this. TAXES ARE GOOD - if they are used for the right things. These taxes even make some profit indirectly. Taxes are not evil - they are needed if a country/nation/state/whatever wants/needs to invest into something that hopefully will make the country/nation/state/whatever a better and peaceful place and also hopefully will turn people into educated, well-trained, tax paying, happy, secure, and peaceful citizens. It all depends not just on the right politicians in the right places - if first of all depends on all of you! Only if the people want to change, they will change. It is not the job of politicians to change people - because they can't. They can just use people for their own purposes, which can be good and/or evil. It is the people that must want to change. Don't wait for some supreme leader to tell you to change - just do it on your own. And then, with enough people really wanting to change themselves and by this, their community, a real change can happen. Otherwise, this will end in a conflict where no side wins inside the US, only people/factions outside the US will be the winners.
This was some stream of consciousness, so please be nice on me when checking for coherence. I am really tired right now but thought what the hell, I think I need to write this down.
Best of luck to all of you guys in the US! Stay healthy and peaceful, okay? You are not alone on this world, you got friends that still count on you despite Agent Orange trying to alienate the whole world.

Saboth wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 09:15:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 08:16:

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 00:51:
Pence has not ruled out 25th Amendment

I suspect this is either not accurate, or simply an attempt to cause the House Ds to delay. Almost any delay in their actions would lead to them running out of time to impeach prior to the 20th.

And to those who think a second impeachment will only cause further damage, I say it is easily avoided. All Trump has to do is resign.

One thing to consider is Trump has officially thrown Pence to the wolves. He won't overturn the election for Donald (despite the fact he doesn't have that power, despite what some scholars believe, because our entire democracy would be worthless if a President's VP could just turn the election over to the guy they work for and ignore the voters), so Trump has unleashed his followers on Pence. Some are calling for Pence to hang, and that he is a traitor, etc.

So in order to preserve his own life, he might be considering removing Trump, who is the one riling up all these insurrectionists who are out for Pence's head.

And that problem would be improved by enacting the 25th amendment? That doesn't sound right. While I am tempted to feel bad for Pence, I feel he is simply reaping what he sowed.

Capitan wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 01:10:
I have to say I feel sorry for you in the United States. Now that Trump is gone, you can already now see that countries like North Korea, China, Iran will take advantage of you again.

It's funny that you think Trump wasn't totally taken advantage of by those, particularly NK

Jonjonz wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 06:43:
If Trumpoloon loose stoolies try another unlawful repeat, I hope the feds go full Waco on them.

You seem to be referencing the federal siege of Waco in which more than 70 Americans lost their lives, and you seem to be encouraging a repeat. Isn't this exactly the sort of violence-inciting comment that you think ought to be banned?

What we seem to lack these days is the willingness to give some grace to our political opponents. I'll agree to not take your comment literally if you'll offer me the same courtesy in the future.

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 08:16:

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 00:51:
Pence has not ruled out 25th Amendment

I suspect this is either not accurate, or simply an attempt to cause the House Ds to delay. Almost any delay in their actions would lead to them running out of time to impeach prior to the 20th.

And to those who think a second impeachment will only cause further damage, I say it is easily avoided. All Trump has to do is resign.

One thing to consider is Trump has officially thrown Pence to the wolves. He won't overturn the election for Donald (despite the fact he doesn't have that power, despite what some scholars believe, because our entire democracy would be worthless if a President's VP could just turn the election over to the guy they work for and ignore the voters), so Trump has unleashed his followers on Pence. Some are calling for Pence to hang, and that he is a traitor, etc.

So in order to preserve his own life, he might be considering removing Trump, who is the one riling up all these insurrectionists who are out for Pence's head.

It certainly will not harm anyone of good intent to provide justice and punish, for Insurrection and Sedition with Impeachment.

That is the healing process, not ignoring a bunch seditionists trying to get off the hook.
Remember the majority of the gop still support tRump and were 'in on' the Sedition and Insurrection.
Obviously, they are in serious trouble with the literal possibility of being expelled from the Senate and Congress.

I generally go with the opposite of what benefits putt'in around .

Lmao, he's desperate for a press conference and running to Texas to give away some more Wall contracts.
If the media would just ignore him, he would probably implode.

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 00:51:
Pence has not ruled out 25th Amendment

I suspect this is either not accurate, or simply an attempt to cause the House Ds to delay. Almost any delay in their actions would lead to them running out of time to impeach prior to the 20th.

And to those who think a second impeachment will only cause further damage, I say it is easily avoided. All Trump has to do is resign.

NKD wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 02:35:

Capitan wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 01:10:
I have to say I feel sorry for you in the United States. Now that Trump is gone, you can already now see that countries like North Korea, China, Iran will take advantage of you again.

North Korea, China, and Iran have had zero impact on my life as an American. Whatever "advantage" they are taking is of no concern to me. The people taking advantage of ordinary Americans are other Americans.

Yes, if you believe Trump did anything at all against China, NK, Iran, you are sipping on the Kool Aid. Trump gave North Korea concessions and legitimacy by meeting with them, and gained absolutely nothing in return. His China trade war has been absolutely disastrous for our economy, while also receiving nothing of value in return. Meanwhile, Trump does significant business with China, so it's a mystery why Trump supporters believe Biden is the one in cahoots with China.The Iran problem was essentially solved for the time being after Obama, until Trump ripped up the historic peace/arms agreement that more intelligent people worked hard to craft. Trump's leaving a massive disaster in his wake with destroyed international agreements, shunned and backstabbed allies, disastrous tariffs and economic policies, a rampaging pandemic with STILL no national plan, thousands dying daily, increasing unemployment, the biggest deficit in history (and he doubled the deficit long BEFORE COVID), highest debt in history. Trump has been an utter disaster for the USA on all fronts, including harming our democracy and national security.

The funny thing is normally you can say when things like this happen, it's not really the President's fault (such as gas prices increasing, civil wars in other nations, etc.), but most of these failures can directly be tied back to Trump, who went against all the experts. In fact, his entire administration was nothing but him wanting to do absolutely stupid things, and his entire administration, military leaders and others doing their best to convince him not to do that, or delaying the order until he forgot about it. Despite all the massive damage he has done, it could have been much worse. The fact he has any supporters left at all at this point shows we have some massive problems with propaganda masquerading as news in this country.

This comment was edited on Jan 10, 2021, 08:57.

Hate speech and violent hate speech are two different things. As I'm sure you know and confused why you left that out.
So is sedition and insurrection, but you know that too.

Acleacius wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 02:57:
... It's absurdist to think places like parler should/could/would/ will exist ever again. violent hate (in any language) is not Speech protected in any way,
and certainly not the Constitution.

The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that hate speech is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment. The most recent Supreme Court case on the issue was in 2017, when the justices unanimously reaffirmed that there is effectively no "hate speech" exception to the free speech rights protected by the First Amendment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_States

wrlwnd wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 10:27:
Well, since this thread has gone totally political, I may as well add my two cents.

Trump is the worst president ever, and yet he's going to get re-elected because the Dumbocrats have lost their collective minds. Apparently you have to be 70+ to be a moderate and if you're young you need to be hard left. Neither of which is good for a general election.

It's as plain as day that the current trajectory will lead to another Trump victory and the Dumbs are on rails they can't deviate from. And what's funny about that is if you go to a site like Democratic Underground they don't even talk about it. They just keep putting up article after article about how dumb / evil Trump is.

One thing about the Republicans - they don't eat their own the way the Dumbs insist on doing. SMH.

This didn't age well.

The trump has proven to be more dumb / evil than anyone could have imagined in their worst nightmares.
No wait, anyone could have imagined what he's done because he's been saying it for the last 4 years.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." - Maya Angelou.

And your comment about the Republicans not eating their own was really enjoyable as I watch the cannibalism inside the Republican party. You may want to send some A1 Sauce to your GOP comrades, because they're fresh out.

The Internet and the social media platforms are not the commons. They are almost entirely private property, owned and run by large powerful corporations. Individuals are free to speak their minds, but it is erroneous to expect a government hand out of media welfare, well that's been attempted (publicly owned cable) and mostly shut down by the large powerful corporations and their lapdog Republican's and Trumpoloons. No one owes you access to world wide communications medium, that is the purview of only those who can afford it. If you don't like large corporations censoring you, buy your own Internet Service provider and social media platform.

Free speech does not include treason or sedition. If you think things need to change, and you fail at getting that done via the ballot box, and you then think you can use force to get what you want, well, the National Guard would like a word with you.

If Trumpoloon loose stoolies try another unlawful repeat, I hope the feds go full Waco on them.

JediPunisher wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 02:50:

The answer to speech you don't agree with is more speech, not less.
That is, it's better to talk things out than the alternative. I do not wish the division in our country to escalate. With Trump now on his way out, one would've thought tensions would cool down and our country could heal. Unfortunately, big tech has just kicked 75M Americans in the teeth and is trying to gag us. This will not end well. I'm a native Californian, but having lived in both red and blue states (family in both), I can honestly say that coasters don't know what they're in for. I suspect quite a few country folk are polishing their guns and praying for victory. I really wish I was kidding.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I was hoping the attack on the Capitol would finally wake some people up and restore some sanity, but instead it's going to just swing the pendulum the other way. This country is all about extremes anymore. Censoring the other side is obviously not the answer, yet here we are.

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 00:51:
More good news:
Pence has not ruled out 25th Amendment
and
Amazon will no longer host Parler after Sunday at 11:59 PM Pacific Time

Three cheers for big tech for doing the right thing.

I agree but it's weeks late (dec 18 is final iirc) and Pence is just talking bullshit to keep his rep, if he has one left.
It's absurdist to think places like parler should/could/would/ will exist ever again. violent hate (in any language) is not Speech protected in any way,
and certainly not the Constitution.

putt'in around, is calling super secret meeting, comrade Strider83 !
Invoking super secret password, about super secret base, at super secret address! code word, kookamunga stretch!

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 00:51:
More good news:
… Amazon will no longer host Parler after Sunday at 11:59 PM Pacific Time

Three cheers for big tech for doing the right thing.

The answer to speech you don't agree with is more speech, not less.
That is, it's better to talk things out than the alternative. I do not wish the division in our country to escalate. With Trump now on his way out, one would've thought tensions would cool down and our country could heal. Unfortunately, big tech has just kicked 75M Americans in the teeth and is trying to gag us. This will not end well. I'm a native Californian, but having lived in both red and blue states (family in both), I can honestly say that coasters don't know what they're in for. I suspect quite a few country folk are polishing their guns and praying for victory. I really wish I was kidding.

jdreyer wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 23:24:

Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 9, 2021, 22:57:
Hey, I do what I can. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I completely understand why people voted for Trump in 2016. Most people pay far less attention to politics than I do. Most people are busy living their lives, paying their bills, they don't know jack shit about politics -- they know they don't and that's fine with them. They didn't know Trump was a charlatan, who lies like a rug, who cares as much about the working man as he does mud on the bottom of his shoe. They listened to Fox, Rush, Hannity, and the rest of it and believed.

But if after four years of what Trump has said and done, you still believe he deserves your vote -- you're lost to me. You clearly have no connection with reality. Yes, I believe over 75 million US citizens have no connection with reality, in politics. Do I believe they should be gunned down? Of course not. However their ignorance is weighing this country down. And frankly, I don't have a lot of concern for them. Maybe that makes me a horrible person. So be it.

We've entered a phase of partisan politics where it's more important to hate the other party than it is to like your own. In these circumstances, it doesn't matter who your candidate is, just so long as the other team loses. Here's a good summation of what the current state of politics in the US is.

"The current state of political sectarianism produces prejudice, discrimination and cognitive distortion, undermining the ability of government to serve its core functions of representing the people and solving the nation's problems," said Finkel. "Along the way, it makes people increasingly willing to support candidates who undermine democracy and to favor violence in support of their political goals."

There's a subtle "Who can blame them?" in there. There can be no nuance in a system where there's only 2 bodies to get things done and they both hate eachother beyond reason. The system has become bankrupt of any functionality other than making the US the clown of the democratic world. Start looking at how countries like The Netherlands do it. And fast.

Capitan wrote on Jan 10, 2021, 01:10:
I have to say I feel sorry for you in the United States. Now that Trump is gone, you can already now see that countries like North Korea, China, Iran will take advantage of you again.

North Korea, China, and Iran have had zero impact on my life as an American. Whatever "advantage" they are taking is of no concern to me. The people taking advantage of ordinary Americans are other Americans.