jacobvandy wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 16:17:

WaltC wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 11:50:
To my knowledge, CP2077 was not formally announced in 2012. At that time, CDPR was neck deep in Witcher territory. After the release of the Witcher 3 in May 2015, CDPR for quite some time would never even admit to developing CP2077--much less did they announce it formally. I don't know where this "announced in 2012" comes from because it isn't so. Perhaps someone from CDPR may have mentioned something in passing in a forum about the company considering such a game, but I recall no formal announcement in 2012--could you imagine the lunacy of saying, "This is what we will ship eight years from now after we ship Witcher 3 in three years"?...;) This is a case of Internet scuttlebutt being parroted as a fact when it isn't a fact at all.

May 2012:

https://en.cdprojektred.com/news/cd-projekt-red-summer-conference-summary/

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-30-cd-projekt-announces-cyberpunk

https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/30/cd-projekt-red-announces-cyberpunk

October 2012:

https://www.engadget.com/2012-10-18-cd-projekt-reds-cyberpunk-now-cyberpunk-2077.html

https://www.pcgamer.com/cd-projekt-spill-cyberpunk-details-including-title-and-setting/

January 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99qJGrPNLs

It's always mindblowing to me watching someone speak so assuredly on something they haven't even bothered to look up.
And even more so, something that requires them to disagree with a source who has most definitely looked it up.

Kxmode wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 15:07:
People are quick to judge Cyberpunk2077 as a failure, yet forget that The Witcher 3 had terrible launch woes on consoles and PC. Remember Roach on the roof or the horse's crippling defeat when trying to jump a fence? This article by PCGamesN posted shortly after W3's launch, continued to be updated until November that year. Today it sits on a 98% Steam rating and is considered one of the best RPGs ever made.

If you watch the car is still behaves like roach occasionally. I've chased my motorcycle like I did that damned horse.

Cyberpunk 2077 was released early to
Make Donald Trump look bad, I have no proof of this, but you can 100% trust me

WaltC wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 11:50:
To my knowledge, CP2077 was not formally announced in 2012. At that time, CDPR was neck deep in Witcher territory. After the release of the Witcher 3 in May 2015, CDPR for quite some time would never even admit to developing CP2077--much less did they announce it formally. I don't know where this "announced in 2012" comes from because it isn't so. Perhaps someone from CDPR may have mentioned something in passing in a forum about the company considering such a game, but I recall no formal announcement in 2012--could you imagine the lunacy of saying, "This is what we will ship eight years from now after we ship Witcher 3 in three years"?...;) This is a case of Internet scuttlebutt being parroted as a fact when it isn't a fact at all.

May 2012:

https://en.cdprojektred.com/news/cd-projekt-red-summer-conference-summary/

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-30-cd-projekt-announces-cyberpunk

https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/30/cd-projekt-red-announces-cyberpunk

October 2012:

https://www.engadget.com/2012-10-18-cd-projekt-reds-cyberpunk-now-cyberpunk-2077.html

https://www.pcgamer.com/cd-projekt-spill-cyberpunk-details-including-title-and-setting/

January 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99qJGrPNLs

Fion wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 13:31:
Props to the developers then. Because despite the crunch and other issues, Save for the plethora of bugs & crashes lots of folks appear to be suffering, the game itself is a masterpiece. Once these issues are solved, the game will go on to be a timeless classic, of that I have zero doubt.

Seriously. I feel quit bad for the console people(especially on older consoles) who are left hanging, but the game itself is impressive now, it'll be amazing in 6 months to a year, even without mods. I do feel like CDPR simply tried to do much in one game though, I'm not sure they could have completed all the initially imagined content in another 2-3 years, really.

People are quick to judge Cyberpunk2077 as a failure, yet forget that The Witcher 3 had terrible launch woes on consoles and PC. Remember Roach on the roof or the horse's crippling defeat when trying to jump a fence? This article by PCGamesN posted shortly after W3's launch, continued to be updated until November that year. Today it sits on a 98% Steam rating and is considered one of the best RPGs ever made.

Props to the developers then. Because despite the crunch and other issues, Save for the plethora of bugs & crashes lots of folks appear to be suffering, the game itself is a masterpiece. Once these issues are solved, the game will go on to be a timeless classic, of that I have zero doubt.

You gotta have SOME push to publish. If not, we'd probably have been waiting another 2 years for the programmers to say they're done. And it STILL would have had a lot of bugs, since 20 QA testers will never find what a couple thousand users will. The key is the balance, and even with all the delays, it looks like it still hit on the "rushed" side of the pendulum, but really not by that much. If you can be a bit patient, in a month it'll be 99% bug free with no quests blocked and no saved game corruption. In six months it'll be 99.9% good and stable with only bugs in really weird situations.

To my knowledge, CP2077 was not formally announced in 2012. At that time, CDPR was neck deep in Witcher territory. After the release of the Witcher 3 in May 2015, CDPR for quite some time would never even admit to developing CP2077--much less did they announce it formally. I don't know where this "announced in 2012" comes from because it isn't so. Perhaps someone from CDPR may have mentioned something in passing in a forum about the company considering such a game, but I recall no formal announcement in 2012--could you imagine the lunacy of saying, "This is what we will ship eight years from now after we ship Witcher 3 in three years"?...;) This is a case of Internet scuttlebutt being parroted as a fact when it isn't a fact at all.

This entire episode reminds me of Microsoft trying to push Windows 8 after the release of their most popular OS in history, Windows 7. Why they imagined Win7 customers would jump on Windows 8 is anybody's guess. That was just so bizarre--another poor Ballmer decision. CDPR is known for quality Witcher software and for continuing to develop and improve their games long after they ship--why they rolled the dice on CP2077, and then did such a lousy job of development, is anyone's guess. Think about it--how *bad* a shape was the game in when management ordered crunch and overtime? Judging by what has been released it must have been nearly unplayable just a few months ago. Also, people forget that among developers, managers of various departments exist, too. It isn't only the company bean counters who work as managers. It is nowhere near that simple.

This will definitely impact the reaction people will have about CDPR's next game! CDPR says Geralt is coming back--let's hope Witcher 4 is in the cards! CDPR has also promised a free upgrade of the Witcher 3 (for all who own the game) with 2020 graphics and sound, and maybe some extra content, too!

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 11:43:

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 11:37:

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 18, 2020, 19:51:
There was zero downside and nothing to lose by delaying the release until the game was ready.
And now they're paying the price.

Ehhh.... does that mean delay the game until December 2021?

Yes
That's exactly what i meant.

I am sure you and I, and quite a few people could handle that delay, but I am not sure CDPR could handle being that late to the game after the new consoles launched, especially if the board made stupid promises to Sony and MS. We'll probably never know the full scope of those contracts, but I'm sure they didn't say: "Release the game any year you want, pfft, your choice"

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 11:37:

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 18, 2020, 19:51:
There was zero downside and nothing to lose by delaying the release until the game was ready.
And now they're paying the price.

Ehhh.... does that mean delay the game until December 2021?

Yes
That's exactly what i meant.

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 18, 2020, 19:51:
There was zero downside and nothing to lose by delaying the release until the game was ready.
And now they're paying the price.

Ehhh.... does that mean delay the game until December 2021? I mean, after a certain amount of time, all that advertising money is wasted, all their lined up deals with the consoles are wasted, etc. etc.

I'm sure there was a huge push, financially and otherwise, to get the game out the door.

That said, I'm at the last quest, doing side quests, and yes, there are quite a few bugs. It'll probably take 6 months of patches to get rid of all these minor bugs on PC, and who knows how long to fix the console versions. More importantly, some systems, most notably the item crafting/upgrade system and the police spawning system, could use major reworks, from a fun/usability standpoint. As it is now, items are 'fine' but they could be ten time better, and unless you have 18-20 point into Crafting/Engineering/Tech, you are not going to be able to keep your favorite Iconics and Legendaries from early game usable into late game. You can still BEAT the game with lower level items, but they will be decidedly lower level compared to stuff you find later. Insane power levels in any tree is kind of a bonus in my opinion, but I will say that combat got markedly easier once you get deep into almost any of the skill trees.

Reading various forums, plenty of people have completed the game, with a variety of skill setups. Overall, the game is very playable, and it is fun, in my opinion. It'll get patched, people need to calm the fuck down. It'll also get modded, probably more than any game ever, so there will be a ton awesome changes to the weaker systems, even if CDPR does nothing. Too bad about the console players, but they are getting their refunds if they can't wait.

Overon wrote on Dec 18, 2020, 20:53:
They delayed it 3 times so I don't think they wanted to delay it a 4th time. But it's not excuse for the deceptive gaslighting of gamers.

Pretty much this. Plus they probably had agreements with Sony, Microsoft, nVidia, etc. etc. to release by Holiday season.

Not condoning the decision of not delaying again... but it probably wasn't as easy of a decision as everyone thinks.

They rolled the dice to keep some commitments, and lost.

Overon wrote on Dec 18, 2020, 20:53:
They delayed it 3 times so I don't think they wanted to delay it a 4th time. But it's not excuse for the deceptive gaslighting of gamers. [/quote

They shouldn't have announced the earlier release dates at all. The game wasn't remotely ready back in September and the developers knew it. But management was pulling a release date out of a hat. I'd be willing to bet Microsoft and Sony refusing to allow that level of trash onto their systems was the only thing stopping an October release that would have been way worse than what we got.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 09:17:
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Not arguing against that, but stupid should still not be rewarded with a bonus once the crisis has been fixed.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Kxmode wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 01:11:

Simon Says wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 00:22:
What was I saying about management should not get their bonus and just low-ladder employees should a week back? ...

"Cyberpunk 2077‘s creators evidently had high hopes for their sprawling Keanu-toting RPG. But with the game lander rougher (read: buggier) than expected, CD Projekt executives have reportedly chosen to rethink their bonus structure, promising to pay developers their full share of their bonuses regardless of how well Cyberpunk reviews – even if, y’know, gating employee bonuses behind extremely high performance expectations is the sort of dystopian “Corpo” attitude you’d expect from Night City’s fictional CEOs."

"We initially had a bonus system that was focused on the game’s ratings and the release date, but after consideration, we believe that measure is simply not fair under the circumstances,” studio head Adam Badowski wrote in an internal email obtained by Bloomberg. “We underestimated the lengths and complexity involved to make this a reality, and still you did everything you could to deliver an ambitious, special game."

source

You were saying? They are still striving to be the good guys, even under such a difficult launch. I think that's amazing. There's grace in their failings.

There's hope for them yet, but I'm thinking they're just gonna post-pone the bonus for the higher ups until the crisis has been averted and the game is out of Alpha/Beta.

Capitan wrote on Dec 19, 2020, 02:14:
This is how it goes when heart and your soul aren't involved in the development of games. EA was the first to only release games that the masses wanted to make big money. Board staff at Cyberpunk 2077 made the same mistake. And in this case, it's also spiced with a lack of knowledge of how to make a game.

Guess this is how future gonna be...?

I think that’s not the main issue here. I believe they saw those big $-signs by announcing a simultaneous release on all platforms and totally underestimated the huge workload. Instead they could’ve just omitted the old gen consoles, set a first release date for PC and a second release date for the new consoles. But no, those $-signs were too tempting and now they’re paying the price.

Let the stocks drop for a few more days then buy cheap. CDPR will continue to patch the game and make it the way it shouldve been from the start soon enough. Early 2021 they will announce free, awesome content. Said announcement will wake up gaming journalists who will report on how many great patches have been released and enthusiasmc/love for CDPR will gradually rise again. Stocks will explode like never before late summer 2021, when they announce The Witcher 4.

Glass half full....I don't think anyone will ever question CDPR delaying the launch of any games in the future.