RedEye9 wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 17:39:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 16:34:

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 09:51:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 09:39:
That said, people should always wait for reviews before buying a game.

Considering how much money you've advanced CIG that statement is little bit "Do as i say and not as i do."

It's different with a crowdfunded game, as by definition you have to put the money in for the game to be made. It's a gamble. Other games I backed were Defence Grid 2, Wasteland 2, Natural Selection 2 and the Double Fine Adventure game - all had their issues. I've long advised people to wait until Star Citizen is much closer to release before they should consider spending money on the game, so I think my advice is pretty consistent.

I didn't recall you saying that but i believe you. My bad.
I just had to tease you because of your muscian pants.

No worries. I was happy to advocate for the project in the early days but there is no excuse for where the project is currently at.

And yeah, I always get a great reaction when people see me wearing those trousers.

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/cyberpunk-2077-refunds/

Cyberpunk has been de-listed from the Playstation Store and seems to be offering refunds to *anyone* who purchased it there. What a mess this became.

Meanwhile I'm over 40 hours into it on PC and haven't had a single crash, with a handful of bugs here and there but nothing game breaking. This is with 5+ yr old hardware also (4790k, 980ti). I've been overall very impressed with the game so far. I really wish they would have just made it a PC-only game from the start, instead of ending up with the 5+ targets they are having to tune for now. Can only imagine it would have gone smoother that way, and likely been a deeper experience not constrained by what may be manageable on older console hardware. Still a great game.

Feel just a tad bad for those that are basically alpha testing the game. I mean seriously, some of the bug videos I caught were horrendously bad, lol. Like I don't even want to watch them anymore because it's so embarrassing. It looks like a game made by a half a$$ developer.

With that said, as I did with Witcher 3, I'll wait probably two years or so before picking this up, when it's been patched to hell and I should be able to run it at full spec provided I upgrade my gpu by then, lol. It'll be a glorious experience then, all DLCs included!

As much as I love the game and CDPR, I would be pretty hacked off if I was under the impression it would run fine (scaled down graphics, whatever) on my ps4 and crashed all the time or refused to run at all; that I could not get a refund if I bought it at Gamestop (Amazon or Gamestop is all there is for some I would imagine), I would definitely be a lot madder. What I do not understand is the amount of hate being thrown by both sides, those who enjoy it and those that cannot play/frustrated by bugs/hardware/etc. I keep encountering people online that seem very bothered I like the game and enjoy it, and I hopefully try and not engage in the "well it works for me, so clearly it is not an issue" mindset, not sure how successfully.

Is this new, unique to Cyberpunk and the hype it garnered, or a reaction to being burned (or feeling burned, I do not know which at this point) by a company viewed as still fairly loyal to their fans?

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 16:34:

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 09:51:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 09:39:
That said, people should always wait for reviews before buying a game.

Considering how much money you've advanced CIG that statement is little bit "Do as i say and not as i do."

It's different with a crowdfunded game, as by definition you have to put the money in for the game to be made. It's a gamble. Other games I backed were Defence Grid 2, Wasteland 2, Natural Selection 2 and the Double Fine Adventure game - all had their issues. I've long advised people to wait until Star Citizen is much closer to release before they should consider spending money on the game, so I think my advice is pretty consistent.

I didn't recall you saying that but i believe you. My bad.
I just had to tease you because of your muscian pants.

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 09:51:

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 09:39:
That said, people should always wait for reviews before buying a game.

Considering how much money you've advanced CIG that statement is little bit "Do as i say and not as i do."

It's different with a crowdfunded game, as by definition you have to put the money in for the game to be made. It's a gamble. Other games I backed were Defence Grid 2, Wasteland 2, Natural Selection 2 and the Double Fine Adventure game - all had their issues. I've long advised people to wait until Star Citizen is much closer to release before they should consider spending money on the game, so I think my advice is pretty consistent.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Dec 16, 2020, 09:39:
That said, people should always wait for reviews before buying a game.

Considering how much money you've advanced CIG that statement is little bit "Do as i say and not as i do."

It's just so odd to me that so many say "well, why would you expect it to run on the recommended hardware?!" That's the whole purpose of recommended hardware, no?

Meanwhile, plenty of other hardware runs on that hardware while looking significantly better. Sure, there may be more going on under the hood here than much of that, but is it really enough to justify something being released that doesn't run on the hardware it's being sold for?

I'll never get why some gamers are so immediately quick to defend anything a developer does. "They worked their employees 100 hours a week for 6 years without pay? These are desirable jobs and they could have left at any time! They use the N word? It's their creative right! They got half a point out of 10 docked for the game literally not running? So-called journalists are a joke today!"

Even your favorite band releases bad songs. No one says they're horrible for it. You can criticize something without condemning it, meaning that not everyone needs to run to defend it. Get in the Ring is a terrible Guns N Roses song. It doesn't make the band terrible, or the album, or the other songs around it. No one feels the need to call anyone saying it's a bad song idiots or accuse them of having bad sound systems. The final episode of Seinfeld is pretty bad, but few that love the show feel the need to call anyone that has that opinion dumb and objectively wrong. But say something perceived as a slight to a game or developer and some people act like you declared war on the entire hobby.

GothicWizard wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 18:03:
The only "outrage" is this next gen game does not work good on ones 8 yr old hardware.. cry me a river. This is my shocked face. Yes I know they said otherwise, they 'lied' or whatever else you want to say about it and sure, they were less then upfront. However COMMON SENSE looking at the game play footage past year it should have been clear last gen console were going to run iffy, at best. This was a game you need modern hardware for. Period. So yes while they should have been more upfront YOU should have the common sense to realize trying to play a game released in late 2020 was going to run like a dog on 2012 hardware. Or better yet get a mid range video card/cpu from 2012 and try to play this (or any other 2020) game. Let me know how it performs. EXACTLY.

The expectation was that the base consoles would run the game but it would be a massive downgrade visually. People were happy to accept that. What common sense could NOT tell gamers was that the game would run as low as 10-15fps, hang for upwards of a minute at a time, constantly crash and have such widespread visual issues that at times it looks worse than anything from 20 years ago. There's a reason they hid the game from backers, as a large number would have cancelled their pre-orders. This was a sleazy move from a company that otherwise has a great track record.

GothicWizard wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 18:03:
So you 8 yr old console players have to take SOME responsibility for being cheap and not looking at it realistically.

If the game can't run acceptably on base consoles it shouldn't have been released on them; if it can then the game shouldn't have been released until it was ready.

GothicWizard wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 18:03:
As a PC player I am loving this game. Deff GotY contender in my view. Not one crash and getting around 50-60fps average on my RTX 2060 on high settings, ray trace off. Is there some immersion bugs? Yes. But nothing game breaking in my 40 hrs or so, so far playing. Us PC players are doing as a whole just fine. Little to no "outrage" here.

Even on PC the game was clearly rushed but that doesn't in any way excuse the performance on last-gen consoles.

GothicWizard wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 18:03:
They should have nixxed last gen consoles and not ever tried to get this to run on such. But their words aside they presented you all the info you needed to know it wasn't going to run good. You chose to look the other way and swallow the PR speak hook line and sinker, and that is frankly on you. shrug.

So everything is fine as long as you ignore all the lies from CD Projekt Red, the review embargo that prevented reviewers from actually testing the base console versions and the fact that they knew the game wasn't even close to being in an acceptable state? Stop being an apologist for the company. The game was rushed to rake in the money and consumers that trusted the company were burned badly.

That said, people should always wait for reviews before buying a game. I've been following the game since it was announced and thought the previews looked amazing but I still opted against buying it at release. I'll wait until the game is discounted and the majority of the issues have been fixed.

The only "outrage" is this next gen game does not work good on ones 8 yr old hardware.. cry me a river. This is my shocked face. Yes I know they said otherwise, they 'lied' or whatever else you want to say about it and sure, they were less then upfront. However COMMON SENSE looking at the game play footage past year it should have been clear last gen console were going to run iffy, at best. This was a game you need modern hardware for. Period. So yes while they should have been more upfront YOU should have the common sense to realize trying to play a game released in late 2020 was going to run like a dog on 2012 hardware. Or better yet get a mid range video card/cpu from 2012 and try to play this (or any other 2020) game. Let me know how it performs. EXACTLY.

So you 8 yr old console players have to take SOME responsibility for being cheap and not looking at it realistically.

As a PC player I am loving this game. Deff GotY contender in my view. Not one crash and getting around 50-60fps average on my RTX 2060 on high settings, ray trace off. Is there some immersion bugs? Yes. But nothing game breaking in my 40 hrs or so, so far playing. Us PC players are doing as a whole just fine. Little to no "outrage" here.

They should have nixxed last gen consoles and not ever tried to get this to run on such. But their words aside they presented you all the info you needed to know it wasn't going to run good. You chose to look the other way and swallow the PR speak hook line and sinker, and that is frankly on you. shrug.

A generic side quest getting stuck is not 'game-breaking," lol.

Zanderat1 wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 12:02:
I dunno. My middle of the pack rig (AMD8350, GTX1080ti,and 24 meg DDR3) can run ultra at 45-50 fps. True I give up ray tracing, but meh. It's overhyped. I have no complaints.

1080p?

I dunno. My middle of the pack rig (AMD8350, GTX1080ti,and 24 meg DDR3) can run ultra at 45-50 fps. True I give up ray tracing, but meh. It's overhyped. I have no complaints.

theyarecomingforyou wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 11:02:

So you'd be okay if the postal service stopped delivering some of your mail because anyone can go out and start their own postal service? The reality is that when a company gets to a certain size it has an ob

This is actually a better example than you think. UPS and FedEx do not deliver to every address in the US. It's too expensive for them to. This is why we have the USPS. They are required by act of Congress to deliver to every single address in the US. This is very expensive, but a requirement. It's also why it's infuriating when conservatives try to kill the post office, as the private sector will never address the entire market.

Basically, there's a huge difference between the private companies, even if they have huge market share, and the government-owned entities. Which feels pretty spot on for discussions about what is and is not censorship.

Cutter wrote on Dec 14, 2020, 19:16:
The market is operating in a fair and open manner. No one's being stopped from going out and starting a competing service where they can set whatever rules they like. If you disagree with how those corporations behave don't use their services.

So a dominant platform holder can do whatever it likes because anyone else can go out and start a global media empire? Do you even listen to your own bullshit?

Cutter wrote on Dec 14, 2020, 19:16:
Youtube has no obligation to the people who use it in hopes of making money, much less a living. Tiktok popped up virtually overnight, same with Twitch. And while Vimeo is much smaller they still have 170 million people, on average, that use their service. So yeah, there's competition out there too.

So you'd be okay if the postal service stopped delivering some of your mail because anyone can go out and start their own postal service? The reality is that when a company gets to a certain size it has an obligation to be run in a fair and transparent manner, which should be enforced by governments. YouTube should still be free to have their own moderation policies but they should be transparent and applied consistently, with independent arbitration for disputes. I don't subscribe to your capitalist wet dream.

Cutter wrote on Dec 14, 2020, 19:16:
Some of you guys keep talking about these companies like they have some sort of obligation to people when they don't. Same if you walk into my resto and I don't like the looks of you. Out you go. The management reserves the right to refuse service, and rightfully so.

Of course businesses have an obligation to society. Businesses that fail to operate for the betterment of society should be prohibited. Great examples of that would be patent trolls, scalpers, payday loan companies, etc. All serve only to enrich themselves, without providing any benefit to society. In your example, would you allow a restaurant owner to refuse to serve black customers because management has final say? You might, but any reasonable person would say no because that would be detrimental to society.

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 09:39:
For those who are experiencing game breaking bugs.
Set the game aside for 6 months while CDPR fixes them, simple as that.

That's crazy talk! We need it NOW!!!! There is literally nothing else to play...

VaranDragon wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 09:54:
To be absolutely fair Mack doesn't state that CDPR have in collusion with youtube\google removed his content. He is (justifiably) pissed at youtube\google for removing his fastest growing video (I think he mentioned 50k+ views in less than 24h) without informing him of the reason why they did so.

He may not be saying it, but there definitely appears to be some here of the belief that this is all to silence CP2077 dissenters.

VaranDragon wrote on Dec 15, 2020, 09:54:
To be absolutely fair Mack doesn't state that CDPR have in collusion with youtube\google removed his content. He is (justifiably) pissed at youtube\google for removing his fastest growing video (I think he mentioned 50k+ views in less than 24h) without informing him of the reason why they did so.

He should upload it again but blurr the dildo.
Which i agree w/him is a stoopid melee weapon.
It makes you wonder what they were going for - Duke Nukem, Just Cause or Saints Row.

To be absolutely fair Mack doesn't state that CDPR have in collusion with youtube\google removed his content. He is (justifiably) pissed at youtube\google for removing his fastest growing video (I think he mentioned 50k+ views in less than 24h) without informing him of the reason why they did so.

For those who are experiencing game breaking bugs.
Set the game aside for 6 months while CDPR fixes them, simple as that.