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11.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 23, 2020, 11:52
11.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 23, 2020, 11:52
Nov 23, 2020, 11:52
 
Many people don't hire based on merit. Many many people... I've known several myself "I don't like hiring <race, sex, look, too old, sound of their voice, etc>". If you think the majority of people hire based on merit you're in a _really_ nice fantasy world but it's not the real world.

I haven't read the interview. I followed Ann briefly on Twitch then stopped. She's pretty toxic herself although she bills herself as fighting the misogynistic online tide (which, to be fair, she does but she's just as toxic just in a more gender neutral way).

Also, as an example of Twitch's "meritocracy", pre BLM they very rarely promoted black streamers on their home page. They do a lot more diverse promotion post BLM. The same can be said for youtube. So... there's your online meritocracy for you. It's not, I imagine, intentional on either company's part pre-BLM. That stuff is often run by AI but an AI as just as biased as the human/data that trains is it so... there you go.
10.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 23, 2020, 11:46
10.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 23, 2020, 11:46
Nov 23, 2020, 11:46
 
Krodge wrote on Nov 23, 2020, 09:18:
Beamer wrote:
You can't organize people by "merit." Hell, it's true in video games. In Jagged Alliance you often take the shittier merc because he has the one skill you think you need and don't have.

Yea because you're looking for that skill and he has merit in it.

Beamer wrote:
Or maybe that high merit merc doesn't get along with a merc you already have.

I've also been involved in a lot of hiring and I think its reasonable not to hire people because of toxic personalities, I've rejected plenty.
But I'd say people skills (depending on the job) are a form of merit too.

I think what the others are saying when they criticise "diversity" is that you shouldn't be hiring people based on things like race, religion or sexual preference, unless it's relevant to the work.

Yes, you're almost getting there.
Do you not think that coming from a different background can be relevant to almost any job? Companies that have fewer diverse people in leadership roles have more difficulty attracting and retaining diverse candidates, which means that you may have someone that's an excellent employee that leaves because leadership doesn't reflect them. This is a real problem.

Getting back to the Jagged Alliance metaphor, you have two mercs, both about equal, but one is diverse. The other may be slightly better overall, but is missing that diversity. You end up picking the one that has the diversity, and then people whine about it. In the real world, if you have a team of 10 white guys, bringing in someone that has a different perspective is valuable in nearly all roles.

As for just pure "merit," the points I'd been trying to make are:
1) There's no agreed-upon merit. For any role you are hiring, you probably talk to a dozen people that would be great for the job. You look at even more on paper. What makes one get the role over the other? People that whine about "meritocracy" don't realize how subjective this is. Someone one person thinks is perfect for a role another thinks is terrible. You can't just look on paper and clearly know who is best
2) There's significant value to diversity, in ways that people often don't appreciate, because people discount how different the country is due to how you look and what's between your legs
3) No one is getting a role in a Fortune 500 company that they're not qualified for due to their skin color. It simply does not happen. Companies may make a point of ensuring they interview diverse candidates, but no one is getting a role they're not qualified for for that reason. People crash and burn in Fortune 500s quickly. Stock prices can shift based upon it at higher levels. People that are getting these roles pass the bar for them, fit it from a merit perspective.
9.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 23, 2020, 09:32
9.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 23, 2020, 09:32
Nov 23, 2020, 09:32
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 23, 2020, 08:16:
Anyone that thinks meritocracy can exist hasn't ever hired a team. I've hired 20 people during quarantine alone. You can't organize people by "merit."

Im sorry but to me this is just wrong on so many levels. So if you're not hiring a person with the best skills for the job, what "metric" do you use when hiring them? I mean it's obviously never as simple as that, and "skills" is something that can be defined very broadly when taking into account the task at hand, but still what should be my takeaway from your statement?

That I can just throw away my CV out the window? That education, and experience are bullshit? That the better dressed, better looking people (unless they are people of color) are higher on the list simply because they are better dressed and better looking? I mean I know that's how it works in most firms AND in life but that's not how it SHOULD be. It's just wrong and should be something that normal people should not only strive against, but actively fight.
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8.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 23, 2020, 09:18
8.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 23, 2020, 09:18
Nov 23, 2020, 09:18
 
Beamer wrote:
You can't organize people by "merit." Hell, it's true in video games. In Jagged Alliance you often take the shittier merc because he has the one skill you think you need and don't have.

Yea because you're looking for that skill and he has merit in it.

Beamer wrote:
Or maybe that high merit merc doesn't get along with a merc you already have.

I've also been involved in a lot of hiring and I think its reasonable not to hire people because of toxic personalities, I've rejected plenty.
But I'd say people skills (depending on the job) are a form of merit too.

I think what the others are saying when they criticise "diversity" is that you shouldn't be hiring people based on things like race, religion or sexual preference, unless it's relevant to the work.
7.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 23, 2020, 08:16
7.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 23, 2020, 08:16
Nov 23, 2020, 08:16
 
VaranDragon wrote on Nov 23, 2020, 06:02:
Beamer wrote on Nov 22, 2020, 20:24:
Ozmodan wrote on Nov 22, 2020, 17:52:
I subscribe to the best candidate theory. This diversity stuff is just another way of asking for mediocrity.

Life doesn't really work that way.
Or do we think Don Jr. is better than the rest of us, as he's wealthier. Kim Kardashian? Your last few bosses?

Not sure what point you are trying to make Beamer, that wealth dictates the best candidate?

That wealth is one of the few universal indicators of success.

I am on mobile, so I didn't bother getting into the whole "merit looks different to each person because it's subjective in the real world" or "every position has different needs even if they're the same on paper" arguments.

Anyone that thinks meritocracy can exist hasn't ever hired a team. I've hired 20 people during quarantine alone. You can't organize people by "merit." Hell, it's true in video games. In Jagged Alliance you often take the shittier merc because he has the one skill you think you need and don't have. Another merc is better at everything, on paper has more merit, but you think you need bomb diffusal. Or maybe that high merit merc doesn't get along with a merc you already have.
6.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 23, 2020, 06:02
6.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 23, 2020, 06:02
Nov 23, 2020, 06:02
 
Beamer wrote on Nov 22, 2020, 20:24:
Ozmodan wrote on Nov 22, 2020, 17:52:
I subscribe to the best candidate theory. This diversity stuff is just another way of asking for mediocrity.

Life doesn't really work that way.
Or do we think Don Jr. is better than the rest of us, as he's wealthier. Kim Kardashian? Your last few bosses?

Not sure what point you are trying to make Beamer, that wealth dictates the best candidate?
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5.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 22, 2020, 20:24
5.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 22, 2020, 20:24
Nov 22, 2020, 20:24
 
Ozmodan wrote on Nov 22, 2020, 17:52:
I subscribe to the best candidate theory. This diversity stuff is just another way of asking for mediocrity.

Life doesn't really work that way.
Or do we think Don Jr. is better than the rest of us, as he's wealthier. Kim Kardashian? Your last few bosses?
4.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 22, 2020, 20:07
4.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 22, 2020, 20:07
Nov 22, 2020, 20:07
 
Isn't streaming entirely a meritocracy? I don't see any walls for diversity in streaming or on Youtube. If you are good at it (or not and choose to over sexualize yourself), you will likely gain an audience. Why do we even need to talk about this?
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3.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 22, 2020, 17:52
3.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 22, 2020, 17:52
Nov 22, 2020, 17:52
 
I subscribe to the best candidate theory. This diversity stuff is just another way of asking for mediocrity.
2.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 22, 2020, 17:51
2.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 22, 2020, 17:51
Nov 22, 2020, 17:51
 
Because video game players aren't all straight white males. Don't be a straight white male snowflake.

That said, the interview was 95% about topics other than diversity, not sure why that's the title, other than the interviewee has spoken about such topics in the past.
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1.
 
Re: Sunday Interviews
Nov 22, 2020, 17:29
1.
Re: Sunday Interviews Nov 22, 2020, 17:29
Nov 22, 2020, 17:29
 
Because liberals say so?
Rolleyes
"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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