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13.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 14:50
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13.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 14:50
Nov 21, 2020, 14:50
 Cutter
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 21, 2020, 13:44:
Prez wrote on Nov 21, 2020, 13:31:
I had never heard of that, but at this point I'm willing to try just about anything. How would I go about trying it? Have I waited too long since my stroke?

Ask your doctor about it, would seem to be the obvious answer. If he can't answer your questions about it he can hopefully point you to someone who can.

Exactly, I believe you'd require a physician referral for it anyway - you do here at least. More specifically your neurologist would be your best bet if you're still seeing one, and/or search for "Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation therapy" and see what's close to you. You can find it in most major cities today I'd suspect. I'd also print that article and that paper out to bring along with you to show the doctors if need be.

As far as time goes I honestly don't know but I doubt it. The great thing about neuromodulation is as it states in the medical paper it actually creates and promotes neurogenesis - creation of new neurons - and neuroplasticity. Loss of neuroplasticity is a major factor in almost every neurological condition from tinnitus to Parkinsons, and dementia. So I'd imagine it would be a good benefit but there's only one way to know for certain.

I first learned about it several years back watching a documentary on neuroscience and it was amazing how much it helped people. They had victims of MS going in wheelchairs and being able to walk again after 12 weeks of therapy. Wish I could remember the name of the doc. At any rate it's worth a shot. Have you checked in with the Heart and Stroke foundation or checked any stroke survivor forums or anything for any other new or emerging treatments for post-stroke rehabilitation? The odds are pretty good there's stuff out there or coming down the pipe in short order that I've never heard of. There's always people in those communities on top of that stuff.

This comment was edited on Nov 21, 2020, 15:46.
"Hot air hangs like a dead man, from a white oak tree. People sitting on porches, thinking how things used to be. It's a dark night...dark night."
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12.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 13:44
12.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 13:44
Nov 21, 2020, 13:44
 
Prez wrote on Nov 21, 2020, 13:31:
I had never heard of that, but at this point I'm willing to try just about anything. How would I go about trying it? Have I waited too long since my stroke?
Ask your doctor about it, would seem to be the obvious answer. If he can't answer your questions about it he can hopefully point you to someone who can.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
11.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 13:31
Prez
 
11.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 13:31
Nov 21, 2020, 13:31
 Prez
 
I had never heard of that, but at this point I'm willing to try just about anything. How would I go about trying it? Have I waited too long since my stroke?
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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10.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 11:48
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10.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 11:48
Nov 21, 2020, 11:48
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Prez wrote on Nov 21, 2020, 09:37:
I am doing alright - nowhere as good as I would like; better than many. 8+ months on and I'm left wondering if I'll ever fully recover. But docs say I defied the odds after such a stroke by not being a vegetable or even dying, so I'm trying to convince myself that I feel lucky. Anyway thank god for autocomplete on my phone- responding would take forever otherwise.

I'm really glad to hear that, Prez. You're a good guy. Strokes scare the hell out of me. There are definitely worse things than dying. As a tinnitus sufferer I get really pissed off at my brain for it. Neurological conditions are the worst. Have you looked at or tried any neuromodulation therapy? I'm a big fan of neuromodulation. I'm going to be trying it to see if I can lessen or eliminate my tinnitus as soon as this goddamned pandemic lets up - I was hoping to go do it last Spring. Neuromodulation has benefits for all manner of neurological conditions. This is way back from 2012.

Stroke and Neuromodulation

"Meanwhile, other interventions under investigation concern the brain itself. During stroke recovery, the brain is reorganizing in a process known as plasticity. Some damaged brain tissue may recover or undamaged areas can be retrained to take over some functions. Applying neurostimulation while the patient undergoes physical or speech therapy may enhance plasticity and facilitate recovery. Two non-invasive neurostimulation approaches are transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) and transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS). Both methods do not require surgery and are applied externally to the patient’s head. In TMS, a coil is positioned over the head, typically while the patient is sitting on a special armchair. Pulses of magnetic stimulation are applied to the head at rest or during the performance of a task. These pulses may be applied on the side of the brain that has been affected by the stroke, on the side opposite to the stroke or on both sides. In tDCS, a sticker is applied to the head and is connected to a power source that creates small electrical fields. Unlike TMS, patients having tDCS can be mobile and may use the stimulation for prolonged periods of time (i.e. weeks). The stimulation can be continually delivered and patients take the devices home or to outpatient physical therapy."

And in a medical research paper from last year.... Acute and Post-acute Neuromodulation Induces Stroke Recovery by Promoting Survival Signaling, Neurogenesis, and Pyramidal Tract Plasticity. It's long and technical but the conclusion is as follows....

"Our results demonstrate that high-frequency rTMS - Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation - decreases infarct volume and apoptosis, activates neuronal survival, neurogenesis, neuronal plasticity, and regional CBF. In addition, rTMS induces changes in gene expression, axonal projections and eventually functional recovery, altogether suggesting the complex nature of rTMS-induced mechanisms. Although rTMS was believed to exert its effects mainly by blocking apoptosis, we propose a wider range of mechanisms involved in its favorable effects, mainly consisting of neural-related processes. Overall, our data strongly support the rationale for the use of non-invasive high-frequency rTMS therapy in stroke patients in order to promote functional recovery through the induction of endogenous repair and recovery mechanisms of the brain."

I know if I had a stroke I'd definitely be going for this. Hope you make a full recovery, man!
"Hot air hangs like a dead man, from a white oak tree. People sitting on porches, thinking how things used to be. It's a dark night...dark night."
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9.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 09:37
Prez
 
9.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 09:37
Nov 21, 2020, 09:37
 Prez
 
I am doing alright - nowhere as good as I would like; better than many. 8+ months on and I'm left wondering if I'll ever fully recover. But docs say I defied the odds after such a stroke by not being a vegetable or even dying, so I'm trying to convince myself that I feel lucky. Anyway thank god for autocomplete on my phone- responding would take forever otherwise.

I really don't want to discuss the game anymore - I probably spoiled too much as it is - but I would point to Telltale's "The Walking Dead" for an example on how to write a good, yet shocking story. To me, story-wise it is a FAR better story revolving around a very similar world.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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8.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 08:51
Verno
 
8.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 08:51
Nov 21, 2020, 08:51
 Verno
 
Prez wrote on Nov 21, 2020, 08:13:
Well I'm glad you guys liked it. I really am. I didn't because I wanted a story about how the two main characters grew. Instead I got a goofy coincidence, a completely out-of-character decision, an unceremonious bludgeoning by a character I didn't know and didn't like, and an inexplicable decision to leave her alive for absolutely no good reason. All so Elle could spend the whole game killing her way to get to her so she could do nothing. Twice. To say I was disappointed is a massive understatement. It's not that I had a predetermined manner in which the story should go, because I didn't. But the characters have to behave at least in a remotely realistic way. I can buy a lot - these are just videogames after all - but in this game I can't even begin to list how many ridiculous plot contrivances there are. For me it was just way too many.

Going to spoiler some of my response below for those that haven't played, major spoilers below.

I agree that the story had some weak points but overall the theme was that violence begets violence. You seem to have issue with Abby and fair enough, she's the weakest link in the story in my opinion. But she is ultimately understandable, raised in a para-military group whose father was killed while trying to save humanity. My issue with Abby and her father was Naughty Dog forgetting that they never gave Ellie a choice and were going to essentially kill her while she slept to attempt a cure. Abby gleefully embracing violence at various points in the story also makes it harder to accept her POV segments and empathize with her. But as I said earlier, with the whole context of her story and situation I do feel shes a relatable character and her arc is the most complete. When she decides to leave revenge behind and help others around her she breaks the cycle and that's why she is spared.

When Ellie seeks revenge for Joel's death, she's starting a cycle of violence and the only reward is more destruction of her friends and family. She breaks the cycle and has a chance to live with Dina in peace. She chooses revenge again and is maimed in her final encounter with Abby. She spares Abby in the end and now has a chance to start living again but not without wounds, physical and mental. Ellie's journey feels the most unfair because she is the one who never asked for this - right from the first game she is a pawn of those around her and has no agency in her decisions. When she acts as Joel did, she also loses everything as he did. Only when she learns to forgive can she seek healing and take control of her life, rather than being caught in the cycle of violence.

I find larger fault with story telling decisions made with the secondary characters. Jesse is one-note and a glorified plot device. Dina never gets any real depth other than being a foil to Ellie. Tommy behaves out of established character at various points. And for sure there are some coincidences/contrivances but those I can sort of handwave away as videogame stuff. To me the second game's story is fine but make the game overstay its welcome and I felt Abby's POV segments go on way too long.


Anyways curious for your thoughts sometimes Prez, hope you're doing OK bud.
Playing: Ys VIII, Hades, Demons Souls
Watching: The Expanse, Tenet, Peninsula
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7.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 08:13
Prez
 
7.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 08:13
Nov 21, 2020, 08:13
 Prez
 
Well I'm glad you guys liked it. I really am. I didn't because I wanted a story about how the two main characters grew. Instead I got a goofy coincidence, a completely out-of-character decision, an unceremonious bludgeoning by a character I didn't know and didn't like, and an inexplicable decision to leave her alive for absolutely no good reason. All so Elle could spend the whole game killing her way to get to her so she could do nothing. Twice. To say I was disappointed is a massive understatement. It's not that I had a predetermined manner in which the story should go, because I didn't. But the characters have to behave at least in a remotely realistic way. I can buy a lot - these are just videogames after all - but in this game I can't even begin to list how many ridiculous plot contrivances there are. For me it was just way too many.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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6.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 03:41
6.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 03:41
Nov 21, 2020, 03:41
 
Prez wrote on Nov 21, 2020, 00:12:
To each his own. The silly story and characters making extremely dubious decisions at critical points made me forget how amazing the world is. Ymmv but I hated it. I won't go into specifics so as to avoid spoilers but suffice it to say that for me it was a little more than Naughty Dog "refusing to do what everyone expects "...

EDIT: Just for clarity I'm talking only about the second. The first was exceptional.

Well, see, I don't get how you can say that was your problem with the sequel when the first game also had plenty of dubious decisions. The entire premise of the second game is to directly follow-up on the grand-daddy of all dubious decisions in the first game's climax. But that's what makes it a compelling drama, is how all these survivors of the apocalypse struggle to not only survive, but find meaning in the hopelessness and misery that is their new reality. Plenty of rational people would see 90%+ of the population not only die, but transform into a legion of terrifying monsters and think "welp, this is it, I can't deal with this" and check out willingly. You have to be a least a little crazy to keep working through that trauma, and then you can't help but go even crazier as the traumas keep piling on. IIRC, seeing that play out for these beloved characters was always Naughty Dog's plan for the series.

I think if it were a new IP with the same exact story but different characters, people wouldn't have reacted the same way they did. (Of course, it wouldn't be nearly so successful or the center of such conversation months later.) And that's my point, that it's a shame people are missing out on and/or not able to enjoy what is such a well-made game because they don't like how the established subject matter was handled.
5.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 02:05
5.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 02:05
Nov 21, 2020, 02:05
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 20, 2020, 19:30:
Prez wrote on Nov 20, 2020, 18:15:
Maybe go easy on the impossible coincidences and make Joel not behave completely out of character? Or in other words, forget the second game happened. Just my two cents.
Oh damn, did the 2nd game suck? I still haven't played the first but watched the game movie. All the positive talk made me want to see it.

I would agree with jacobvandy that the second game was great. My main criticism is that the game mechanics have not evolved in any way from the first, so it feels very samey. You still scrounge around for scrap to upgrade your gear, and spend most of your time stealthing around, taking down baddies one-by-one, and so on. I've seen very few legit criticisms of the game (most of it can be dismissed as sexist and homophobic). The story is good, the major characters are great and memorable for the most part. I had no big issues with the narrative portion of the game at all really.
4.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 21, 2020, 00:12
Prez
 
4.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 21, 2020, 00:12
Nov 21, 2020, 00:12
 Prez
 
To each his own. The silly story and characters making extremely dubious decisions at critical points made me forget how amazing the world is. Ymmv but I hated it. I won't go into specifics so as to avoid spoilers but suffice it to say that for me it was a little more than Naughty Dog "refusing to do what everyone expects "...

EDIT: Just for clarity I'm talking only about the second. The first was exceptional.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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3.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 20, 2020, 20:26
3.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 20, 2020, 20:26
Nov 20, 2020, 20:26
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 20, 2020, 19:30:
Prez wrote on Nov 20, 2020, 18:15:
Maybe go easy on the impossible coincidences and make Joel not behave completely out of character? Or in other words, forget the second game happened. Just my two cents.
Oh damn, did the 2nd game suck? I still haven't played the first but watched the game movie. All the positive talk made me want to see it.

Far from it, the second game is probably the best narrative-driven action/adventure game of all time. Naughty Dog is so good at immersing you in a world, at making characters come to life, at not only telling a story but making you feel as if you're living through it (which you don't get from just watching cutscenes on YouTube)... That's why a lot of people feel so strongly against the content of the second game, the actual events of the story.

They didn't play it safe at all, didn't take it in the direction so many fans were assuming -- or in some cases, desperately hoping -- they would. In fact, for a lot of folks, it turned into their worst nightmare almost right off the bat. It makes you feel things and question the views and opinions you have of this fictional world and the characters in it (being super vague because I'm impressed if you've been able to avoid spoilers so long and don't want to ruin that), and that is NOT what most people want from a franchise they hold so dear.

As a result, a lot of fans of the first were sadly unable to fully enjoy the follow-up, if they didn't just rage quit before it even really got started. Which is a shame because, as I said, it's a masterpiece in the medium, let alone the genre.
2.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 20, 2020, 19:30
2.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 20, 2020, 19:30
Nov 20, 2020, 19:30
 
Prez wrote on Nov 20, 2020, 18:15:
Maybe go easy on the impossible coincidences and make Joel not behave completely out of character? Or in other words, forget the second game happened. Just my two cents.
Oh damn, did the 2nd game suck? I still haven't played the first but watched the game movie. All the positive talk made me want to see it.
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1.
 
Re: etc., etc.
Nov 20, 2020, 18:15
Prez
 
1.
Re: etc., etc. Nov 20, 2020, 18:15
Nov 20, 2020, 18:15
 Prez
 
Maybe go easy on the impossible coincidences and make Joel not behave completely out of character? Or in other words, forget the second game happened. Just my two cents.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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