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24.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 20, 2020, 13:54
24.
Re: etc. Nov 20, 2020, 13:54
Nov 20, 2020, 13:54
 
jacobvandy wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 21:56:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 21:42:
I mean, have super heroes really been that popular over the last decade or so?

I'm highlighting blank space but I... can't... seem to find... the sarcasm disclaimer...

Laugh2

I should have included it. Poe's Law and all.
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23.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 20, 2020, 12:07
23.
Re: etc. Nov 20, 2020, 12:07
Nov 20, 2020, 12:07
 
I just have to laugh that you guys call WoW Grindy. Go play EQ or even WoW Classic, THOSE are grindy.
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22.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 20, 2020, 07:28
22.
Re: etc. Nov 20, 2020, 07:28
Nov 20, 2020, 07:28
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 21:32:
Never heard of a MMO that wasn't grindy.

OG Guild Wars (pre-expansions) was not a grind and you could completely solo that game from start to finish. Moreover, the progression felt much more organic. There weren't big time sink gaps between where you were and what you needed to do to get the next mission. More of the story was told cinematically then "read these lines of text".

Overall, I think it was a far better game than WoW. However, Guild Wars came out six months after WoW.
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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21.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 20, 2020, 03:07
21.
Re: etc. Nov 20, 2020, 03:07
Nov 20, 2020, 03:07
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 15:26:
WoW is such a boring fucking grind it blows my mind people still do it.

I have yet to play an MMO that doesn't bore me to tears.
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." ― Arthur C. Clarke
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20.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 21:56
20.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 21:56
Nov 19, 2020, 21:56
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 21:42:
I mean, have super heroes really been that popular over the last decade or so?

I'm highlighting blank space but I... can't... seem to find... the sarcasm disclaimer...
19.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 21:42
19.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 21:42
Nov 19, 2020, 21:42
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 19:24:
wtf_man wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 18:23:
Cutter wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 15:26:
WoW is such a boring fucking grind it blows my mind people still do it.

It blows my mind on how it got so popular in the first place. There were much better MMOs out there, before and after, that never enjoyed the peak success of WOW.

I think initially it was pretty good. And the world building was top notch too. But year over year they just made it more and more grindy because they weren't going to put out content at the pace they needed to to keep people happy. I was last back there a few years ago - can't even recall which expansion - and you had to do an insane amount of grinding just to use your flying mount in the new zone. After 3 weeks of it I just quit and uninstalled. I'll never return.

However, I do agree with you that were much better MMOs out there that deserved way more success than WoW. EQ2 was miles better in every way - and still has the best crafting system to date. DDO, LOTR MMO, all way better in so many ways. I think the TES MMO would be really good if it wasn't so clearly designed for consoles. I'd really love to see another superhero MMO again like CoH. Still amazes me the lack of - good - superhero games and MMOs in general.

I'd rather see a new NWN more than anything else. Let the community build the content.


I mean, have super heroes really been that popular over the last decade or so?
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18.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 21:41
18.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 21:41
Nov 19, 2020, 21:41
 
The Half Elf wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 19:13:
Make a Starcraft Game that is a shooter in the vein of Planetside.

You're welcome.

Or L4D.
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17.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 21:32
17.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 21:32
Nov 19, 2020, 21:32
 
Never heard of a MMO that wasn't grindy. I played WoW from the start and through five of the first six expansions (skipped MoP -- the idea of Pandas did not thrill me), and yeah there are grinds. As many of them as you want, but most of them are optional. And yeah, not having access to flying at the start of each expansion was a bit annoying -- but the effort required to get to flying in the new areas didn't really reach the level on of a grind. On the other hand, most of the new "cool" mounts were grinds, some worse than others. The biggest gripe I had about crafting in WoW was the limitation of two types of crafting to each character. I don't know if it is like that in other MMOs, but it was annoying to need multiple characters leveled and doing crafting quests if you wanted direct access to them.

I see you saying others were better.... I'm not seeing a lot of explanation why you think they are better. Was it better combat? Better design of encounters? Better story telling? Better quests? WoW certainly isn't a "open world" kind of game, it is very structured. Was that the problem? That has some credence...
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
16.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 20:07
16.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 20:07
Nov 19, 2020, 20:07
 
wtf_man wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 19:42:
Cutter actually pointed out most of them. EQ2, LOTR, Guild Wars...for before...
I feel like LOTR and Guild Wars were both after, and EQ2 was basically the same time.
15.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 19:42
15.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 19:42
Nov 19, 2020, 19:42
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 19:08:
wtf_man wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 18:23:
There were much better MMOs out there, before and after, that never enjoyed the peak success of WOW.
Better, I could believe, but "much better"? Then again, as I like to point out here in the forums, different strokes for different folks. I would be interested to know which MMOs you think were "much better" than WoW -- and more importantly, why they were.

Cutter actually pointed out most of them. EQ2, LOTR, Guild Wars...for before... Guild Wars 2, ESO, SWTOR (Although that had a rough start) afterwards.

Hell, I even liked Age of Conan better than WoW... and that was horrid when it released.
Get your games from GOG DAMMIT!
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14.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 19:24
Cutter
 
14.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 19:24
Nov 19, 2020, 19:24
 Cutter
 
wtf_man wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 18:23:
Cutter wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 15:26:
WoW is such a boring fucking grind it blows my mind people still do it.

It blows my mind on how it got so popular in the first place. There were much better MMOs out there, before and after, that never enjoyed the peak success of WOW.

I think initially it was pretty good. And the world building was top notch too. But year over year they just made it more and more grindy because they weren't going to put out content at the pace they needed to to keep people happy. I was last back there a few years ago - can't even recall which expansion - and you had to do an insane amount of grinding just to use your flying mount in the new zone. After 3 weeks of it I just quit and uninstalled. I'll never return.

However, I do agree with you that were much better MMOs out there that deserved way more success than WoW. EQ2 was miles better in every way - and still has the best crafting system to date. DDO, LOTR MMO, all way better in so many ways. I think the TES MMO would be really good if it wasn't so clearly designed for consoles. I'd really love to see another superhero MMO again like CoH. Still amazes me the lack of - good - superhero games and MMOs in general.

I'd rather see a new NWN more than anything else. Let the community build the content.

"Hot air hangs like a dead man, from a white oak tree. People sitting on porches, thinking how things used to be. It's a dark night...dark night."
Avatar 25394
13.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 19:13
13.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 19:13
Nov 19, 2020, 19:13
 
Make a Starcraft Game that is a shooter in the vein of Planetside.

You're welcome.
Avatar 12670
12.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 19:08
12.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 19:08
Nov 19, 2020, 19:08
 
wtf_man wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 18:23:
There were much better MMOs out there, before and after, that never enjoyed the peak success of WOW.
Better, I could believe, but "much better"? Then again, as I like to point out here in the forums, different strokes for different folks. I would be interested to know which MMOs you think were "much better" than WoW -- and more importantly, why they were.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
11.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 18:23
11.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 18:23
Nov 19, 2020, 18:23
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 15:26:
WoW is such a boring fucking grind it blows my mind people still do it.

It blows my mind on how it got so popular in the first place. There were much better MMOs out there, before and after, that never enjoyed the peak success of WOW.
Get your games from GOG DAMMIT!
Avatar 19499
10.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 18:20
KS
10.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 18:20
Nov 19, 2020, 18:20
KS
 
Raids are ok, but they aren't adventure. They are ridiculous ballets where you are expected to watch YouTube videos ahead of time.

Maybe some like that, but the best fun I ever had in an MMORPG was going into a dungeon with 4 other guys, rando, and none of us had done it before. We had to go carefully and solve the puzzles ourselves.

Raids in WoW are as mathematically the opposite of that as you can get. Maybe some super-guilds that run on test server get this honor and fun, but not in the regular game.

It's literally stupider than grinding, or Progress Quest.
9.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 17:17
9.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 17:17
Nov 19, 2020, 17:17
 
Hornet303 wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 16:54:
The Half Elf wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 15:22:
Rhett wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 12:30:
Shadowlands and Black Ops both set new sales records against previous entries, sadly... Shadowlands looks kinda promising, but anything's better than the current expansion at least. Black Ops looks like a big step back though.. not sure why people are buying into it...

Shadowland Pre-patch event..... was..... I don't want to say a complete and utter disappointment, because that would be elevating it way above it's station. The money and dev is all going to Call of Duty Franchise and at this point Blizzard (with or without Covid) is indeed circling the drain.

Blizzard needs to figure a way to buy itself back and get away from Activision before it's too late.

For the sake of conversation, I don't see how Blizzard can survive on its own right now. They need the COD money to help support the development of new games, that don't seem to be coming out anytime soon! It's fucked, but if they don't focus on the cash cow, none of the other cows will get fed and Blizzard is just about out of cows! Is WoW still printing money?

In my mind, Blizzard used to excel at creating games that appealed to everyone. Every Blizzard game was highly anticipated! Now, I don't care about Hearthstone, and I haven't played WoW since the second expansion pack. Overwatch was great, but fell out of love after level 40 or so. So the only thing I'm interested in is either Diablo 4 or potentially some game I'm unaware of. I'm sure Covid is not helping the situation.

Yeah, I'm getting Bioware vibes from current-day Blizzard. Back in their heyday, whenever both companies released games they were insta-buys for me and my friends. Sadly that is no longer the case and I'm going to wait for reviews for both Overwatch 2 and Diablo 4.
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8.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 17:05
8.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 17:05
Nov 19, 2020, 17:05
 
Hornet303 wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 16:54:
Is WoW still printing money?
Well supposedly, this expansion has more "pre-sales" than any of their previous expansions. I don't know if I believe that, but it is what they are claiming. Certainly it appears enough people are still playing they should be making plenty of profit from it.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
7.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 16:54
7.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 16:54
Nov 19, 2020, 16:54
 
The Half Elf wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 15:22:
Rhett wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 12:30:
Shadowlands and Black Ops both set new sales records against previous entries, sadly... Shadowlands looks kinda promising, but anything's better than the current expansion at least. Black Ops looks like a big step back though.. not sure why people are buying into it...

Shadowland Pre-patch event..... was..... I don't want to say a complete and utter disappointment, because that would be elevating it way above it's station. The money and dev is all going to Call of Duty Franchise and at this point Blizzard (with or without Covid) is indeed circling the drain.

Blizzard needs to figure a way to buy itself back and get away from Activision before it's too late.

For the sake of conversation, I don't see how Blizzard can survive on its own right now. They need the COD money to help support the development of new games, that don't seem to be coming out anytime soon! It's fucked, but if they don't focus on the cash cow, none of the other cows will get fed and Blizzard is just about out of cows! Is WoW still printing money?

In my mind, Blizzard used to excel at creating games that appealed to everyone. Every Blizzard game was highly anticipated! Now, I don't care about Hearthstone, and I haven't played WoW since the second expansion pack. Overwatch was great, but fell out of love after level 40 or so. So the only thing I'm interested in is either Diablo 4 or potentially some game I'm unaware of. I'm sure Covid is not helping the situation.
6.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 15:26
Cutter
 
6.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 15:26
Nov 19, 2020, 15:26
 Cutter
 
WoW is such a boring fucking grind it blows my mind people still do it.
"Hot air hangs like a dead man, from a white oak tree. People sitting on porches, thinking how things used to be. It's a dark night...dark night."
Avatar 25394
5.
 
Re: etc.
Nov 19, 2020, 15:22
5.
Re: etc. Nov 19, 2020, 15:22
Nov 19, 2020, 15:22
 
Rhett wrote on Nov 19, 2020, 12:30:
Shadowlands and Black Ops both set new sales records against previous entries, sadly... Shadowlands looks kinda promising, but anything's better than the current expansion at least. Black Ops looks like a big step back though.. not sure why people are buying into it...

Shadowland Pre-patch event..... was..... I don't want to say a complete and utter disappointment, because that would be elevating it way above it's station. The money and dev is all going to Call of Duty Franchise and at this point Blizzard (with or without Covid) is indeed circling the drain.

Blizzard needs to figure a way to buy itself back and get away from Activision before it's too late.
Avatar 12670
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