Epic Fires Back at Apple Again

Here's another new legal filing from Epic Games in the dispute between Epic and Apple about Fortnite royalties on the Apple App store (thanks The Verge). Among other things, Epic refutes Apple's recent assertion that interest in Fortnite is waning, saying Apple "cherry-picked" Google Trends data to make their case:
Finally, Apple’s papers contain a number of half-truths and outright falsities intended to paint Epic as a bad actor. Epic cannot catalogue them all here but notes a few examples below:

  1. Apple asserts that Epic eliminated IAP from Fortnite. This is false. Epic’s hotfix update offered IAP and Epic direct pay side-by-side. IAP remained available in Fortnite until Apple blocked IAP upon termination of Epic’s Team ID ’84 account. (Grant Reply ¶¶ 38-39.)
  2. Apple asserts that the August 13 release has security risks. That is false. Apple has not presented a shred of evidence that there is any security issue.
  3. An Apple declarant asserts that in 2018, Epic breached its agreement with Sony to launch cross-platform play without Sony’s consent. (Schmid ¶ 19.) That is false. Sony announced the availability of cross-platform play in September 2018 with Epic as one of the first participants in the new program. (Sweeney Reply ¶ 7, Ex. A.)
  4. Apple claims Epic brought this case to revive supposedly waning interest in Fortnite, alleging a 70% decline in “interest” between October 2019 and July 2020. (Opp’n 11.) But Apple cherry-picked Google Trends data concerning Google search volumes, misleadingly starting from a one-week spike that took place in October 2019 when Epic ran an in-game event that captured global attention. Fortnite users increased over that period. (Sweeney Reply ¶ 18.)
  5. Apple argues that “Epic’s own app marketplace charges users and developers a commission” just like IAP. (Opp’n 6 & n.7.) But the Epic Games Store offers developers the choice that Apple does not: they can use Epic’s payment processor for in-app purchases, or they can use another payment processor and pay Epic nothing. (Sweeney Reply ¶ 24.)
  6. Apple claims it placed Fortnite billboards in Times Square and LA Live, at its expense to the benefit of Epic. But the billboards actually promoted the availability of Marshmello’s concert playlist on Apple Music. (Sweeney Reply ¶¶ 20-22, Ex. B.)

Epic looks forward to demonstrating at trial the unlawfulness of Apple’s conduct. In the meantime, an injunction should issue.

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28 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  ] Older
28.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 18:04
Wolfen
 
28.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 18:04
Sep 20, 2020, 18:04
 Wolfen
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 16:42:
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 09:43:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 03:49:
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 00:05:
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*

My sentiments exactly.

Hey, how are things on the mainland? I hear that food might be getting pretty scarce over there.

Errr... not sure where you heard that. It's fine over here food wise. At least in Shanghai it is. I haven't heard anyone discussing that except for you. Not even other foreigners here haha.

Huh, I heard the flooding has wrecked a good part of the grain harvest causing prices of rice, corn, etc. to spike. I've heard of army worm and locust infestations eating millions of tons of grain, and a swine flu outbreak that resulted in 180M pigs being killed to prevent spread. Maybe China is upping imports and using the strategic reserve to counteract these so that on one notices.

I am sometimes trapped in the same bubble as everyone else here. Which means I don't always get the news they don't want us to get haha.
27.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 18:03
Wolfen
 
27.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 18:03
Sep 20, 2020, 18:03
 Wolfen
 
Cutter wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 13:20:
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 09:43:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 03:49:
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 00:05:
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*

My sentiments exactly.

Hey, how are things on the mainland? I hear that food might be getting pretty scarce over there.

Errr... not sure where you heard that. It's fine over here food wise. At least in Shanghai it is. I haven't heard anyone discussing that except for you. Not even other foreigners here haha.

Is there tons of great street food around where you are? Noodles, dumplings, etc. That the one thing I wish we could pickup from the rest of the world, way more, way better street food.

They have pretty much done away with street food in Shanghai. You may on occasion see some one selling some fried noodles but it's nothing like it was several years ago. I remember when there were street corners at night that had tables in them and people would be eating street food. Not anymore.
26.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 17:11
H@P
26.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 17:11
Sep 20, 2020, 17:11
H@P
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 03:48:
I don't think it will really matter who wins the election: the Dems might be a slightly better option (e.g., Nadler), but both parties are pretty pro-corporate and hesitant to really press these kinds of investigations.

Unless you try and "fact check" a tweet or statement. Then congressional meetings are held, and investigations are launched.
Avatar 57952
25.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 16:42
25.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 16:42
Sep 20, 2020, 16:42
 
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 09:43:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 03:49:
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 00:05:
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*

My sentiments exactly.

Hey, how are things on the mainland? I hear that food might be getting pretty scarce over there.

Errr... not sure where you heard that. It's fine over here food wise. At least in Shanghai it is. I haven't heard anyone discussing that except for you. Not even other foreigners here haha.

Huh, I heard the flooding has wrecked a good part of the grain harvest causing prices of rice, corn, etc. to spike. I've heard of army worm and locust infestations eating millions of tons of grain, and a swine flu outbreak that resulted in 180M pigs being killed to prevent spread. Maybe China is upping imports and using the strategic reserve to counteract these so that on one notices.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
24.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 14:22
Jivaro
 
24.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 14:22
Sep 20, 2020, 14:22
 Jivaro
 
Let the lawyers battle it out in a group cage match. If the loser doesn't like the result they can appeal via a match between sweeney and cook.
Avatar 55841
23.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 13:20
Cutter
 
23.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 13:20
Sep 20, 2020, 13:20
 Cutter
 
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 09:43:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 03:49:
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 00:05:
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*

My sentiments exactly.

Hey, how are things on the mainland? I hear that food might be getting pretty scarce over there.

Errr... not sure where you heard that. It's fine over here food wise. At least in Shanghai it is. I haven't heard anyone discussing that except for you. Not even other foreigners here haha.

Is there tons of great street food around where you are? Noodles, dumplings, etc. That the one thing I wish we could pickup from the rest of the world, way more, way better street food.
"Hot air hangs like a dead man, from a white oak tree. People sitting on porches, thinking how things used to be. It's a dark night...dark night."
Avatar 25394
22.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 09:43
Wolfen
 
22.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 09:43
Sep 20, 2020, 09:43
 Wolfen
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 03:49:
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 00:05:
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*

My sentiments exactly.

Hey, how are things on the mainland? I hear that food might be getting pretty scarce over there.

Errr... not sure where you heard that. It's fine over here food wise. At least in Shanghai it is. I haven't heard anyone discussing that except for you. Not even other foreigners here haha.
21.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 08:52
21.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 08:52
Sep 20, 2020, 08:52
 
ColoradoHoudini wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 16:02:
Take 10 random Apple employees and 10 random Epic employees.. grease em all up, and have them fight in an actual battle royal.

Then we would have ten janitors fighting ten janitors.

I think it would be better for everyone if this was limited to the legal teams.
----------------------------
Yes, I abuse grammar by opening my mouth.
20.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 03:49
20.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 03:49
Sep 20, 2020, 03:49
 
Wolfen wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 00:05:
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*

My sentiments exactly.

Hey, how are things on the mainland? I hear that food might be getting pretty scarce over there.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
19.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 03:48
19.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 03:48
Sep 20, 2020, 03:48
 
Hanneth wrote on Sep 20, 2020, 02:49:
There is actually a very valid case here against Apple.
My worry is that if Epic fails, it will make it harder for someone else to win the case.
I don't know if Tim Sweeney is doing this for the people, like he says he is. Maybe he is just doing it for the profit of his own company. He may even be doing it for Epic Games Store IOS.
What ever the reason, he has been going about this the wrong way.
Fortunately Apple has as big an ego as Sweeney does. While some of the false representations may not be directly relevant to the case, you don't ever tick off a judge by making false representations.
Either way, this probably isn't going to have an outcome for at least a couple of years.

The case against Google on the other hand is on shattered thin ice. Samsung is one of the major Android phone sellers, and they have their Galaxy Store on every device they ship, no extra clicks. Installing other app stores isn't that hard either. That being said, this will probably drag out for years as well.

My thought is that Epic doesn't really have a case on their own. The hope they have is that all this publicity triggers a new or improves ongoing anti-trust investigations into Apple. I don't think it will really matter who wins the election: the Dems might be a slightly better option (e.g., Nadler), but both parties are pretty pro-corporate and hesitant to really press these kinds of investigations.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
18.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 02:49
18.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 02:49
Sep 20, 2020, 02:49
 
There is actually a very valid case here against Apple.
My worry is that if Epic fails, it will make it harder for someone else to win the case.
I don't know if Tim Sweeney is doing this for the people, like he says he is. Maybe he is just doing it for the profit of his own company. He may even be doing it for Epic Games Store IOS.
What ever the reason, he has been going about this the wrong way.
Fortunately Apple has as big an ego as Sweeney does. While some of the false representations may not be directly relevant to the case, you don't ever tick off a judge by making false representations.
Either way, this probably isn't going to have an outcome for at least a couple of years.

The case against Google on the other hand is on shattered thin ice. Samsung is one of the major Android phone sellers, and they have their Galaxy Store on every device they ship, no extra clicks. Installing other app stores isn't that hard either. That being said, this will probably drag out for years as well.
17.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 01:00
Kxmode
 
17.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 01:00
Sep 20, 2020, 01:00
 Kxmode
 
RedEye9 wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 18:18:
Dunce Tim Sweeney owns the majority of the Company. aka >50%
He's the one that does the threatening, not the other way around.
Does that really need to be explained to you. Dunce

It's not that clear-cut.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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16.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 00:19
16.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 00:19
Sep 20, 2020, 00:19
 
Epic Games, like Valve, is a privately held corporation. Their shares are not publicly traded.
A mask is an IQ test
"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone." Blaise Pascal
Avatar 58135
15.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 20, 2020, 00:05
Wolfen
 
15.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 20, 2020, 00:05
Sep 20, 2020, 00:05
 Wolfen
 
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*

My sentiments exactly.
14.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 19, 2020, 23:53
Ant
 
14.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 19, 2020, 23:53
Sep 19, 2020, 23:53
 Ant
 
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*
*yawn*
Ant's Quality Foraged Links (http://aqfl.net) & The Ant Farm (http://antfarm.ma.cx / http://antfarm.home.dhs.org).
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13.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 19, 2020, 22:47
13.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 19, 2020, 22:47
Sep 19, 2020, 22:47
 
I'll take Sweeney any day over Tim Apple. Fuck Apple..lol.
Avatar 33180
12.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 19, 2020, 22:35
12.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 19, 2020, 22:35
Sep 19, 2020, 22:35
 
Mordhaus wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 18:06:
Acleacius wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 16:22:
It looks like bullshit, none of this has anything to do with the case. Movingalong
He's just in cya mode, I'm getting the distinct his job is being threatened. Nahnah

One can only hope. If Sweeney were gone, I wouldn't have any issue with Epic.
Same here actually. I used to 'just' blame cliffyb but clearly sweeney was the puppet master with his hand up cliffyb's butt? Biting Giggle
I wouldn't even mind foreign investors, but now they can just claim ignorance due to sweeney's idiotic anti consumer, anticompetitive malfeasance.
It's just sweeney's proclivity to invoke selfrighteousness indignation, as a billionaire. Trollbashing

Even majority share 'owners' in have been forced out of leadership roles due to personal behaviors, contrary to social norms.

Speaking of profit, has anyone noticed how much epic shares have dropped? (25%?)
The worst criminal in human history, undeniably. There has never been a figure in political history, so dedicated to destroying the prospects of organized human life on the planet, in the near future.

Beating and Gassing Americans for Jesus!
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11.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 19, 2020, 19:47
11.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 19, 2020, 19:47
Sep 19, 2020, 19:47
 
jacobvandy wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 15:17:
*yawn*
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
10.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 19, 2020, 18:18
10.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 19, 2020, 18:18
Sep 19, 2020, 18:18
 
Dunce Tim Sweeney owns the majority of the Company. aka >50%
He's the one that does the threatening, not the other way around.
Does that really need to be explained to you. Dunce
A mask is an IQ test
"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone." Blaise Pascal
Avatar 58135
9.
 
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again
Sep 19, 2020, 18:06
9.
Re: Epic Fires Back at Apple Again Sep 19, 2020, 18:06
Sep 19, 2020, 18:06
 
Acleacius wrote on Sep 19, 2020, 16:22:
It looks like bullshit, none of this has anything to do with the case. Movingalong
He's just in cya mode, I'm getting the distinct his job is being threatened. Nahnah

One can only hope. If Sweeney were gone, I wouldn't have any issue with Epic.
Avatar 57294
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