GMG is running a 14% off sale today, dropping price $7 down to a total of $43.
I went for it, I doubt it's going to get cheaper before release.

Kxmode wrote on Jul 30, 2020, 11:38:

FloorPie wrote on Jul 30, 2020, 03:04:

Kxmode wrote on Jul 30, 2020, 02:58:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 23:07:
BeOS was the last original OS. Everything since has been regurgitated shit. Yes, even my much beloved Linux after Canonical came in to being.

For the people with their finger stuck up their nose saying "I don't have problems with Windows 10", great. You're an infinitesimal point on a data plot. Meanwhile, my colleagues who are responsible for 100K+ deployments would viciously, and probably rather violently in the physical sense, disagree with you. KB4556799, in particular, required a team of software engineers from Microsoft to fly down to see why things had gone so catastrophically wrong. The first half of this year alone saw a multitude of high profile Windows failures worldwide. The latest problem seems to be with Windows' own window manager if you're opening and closing the lid on laptops with external displays attached based on the last sysalert thread I read this morning. Not exactly an uncommon scenario in the professional, governmental, and academic sectors of the world.

<Cue anecdotally based rebuttals based on one machine in a home setting in 3...2...1...>

I'm not an infinitesimal data plot. I'm a person!

I thought you were a meat popsicle?

That's CORBIN DALLAS

That's Aloy Lulu Dallas to you bitches!

FloorPie wrote on Jul 30, 2020, 03:04:

Kxmode wrote on Jul 30, 2020, 02:58:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 23:07:
BeOS was the last original OS. Everything since has been regurgitated shit. Yes, even my much beloved Linux after Canonical came in to being.

For the people with their finger stuck up their nose saying "I don't have problems with Windows 10", great. You're an infinitesimal point on a data plot. Meanwhile, my colleagues who are responsible for 100K+ deployments would viciously, and probably rather violently in the physical sense, disagree with you. KB4556799, in particular, required a team of software engineers from Microsoft to fly down to see why things had gone so catastrophically wrong. The first half of this year alone saw a multitude of high profile Windows failures worldwide. The latest problem seems to be with Windows' own window manager if you're opening and closing the lid on laptops with external displays attached based on the last sysalert thread I read this morning. Not exactly an uncommon scenario in the professional, governmental, and academic sectors of the world.

<Cue anecdotally based rebuttals based on one machine in a home setting in 3...2...1...>

I'm not an infinitesimal data plot. I'm a person!

I thought you were a meat popsicle?

That's CORBIN DALLAS

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 23:07:
BeOS was the last original OS. Everything since has been regurgitated shit. Yes, even my much beloved Linux after Canonical came in to being.

For the people with their finger stuck up their nose saying "I don't have problems with Windows 10", great. You're an infinitesimal point on a data plot. Meanwhile, my colleagues who are responsible for 100K+ deployments would viciously, and probably rather violently in the physical sense, disagree with you. KB4556799, in particular, required a team of software engineers from Microsoft to fly down to see why things had gone so catastrophically wrong. The first half of this year alone saw a multitude of high profile Windows failures worldwide. The latest problem seems to be with Windows' own window manager if you're opening and closing the lid on laptops with external displays attached based on the last sysalert thread I read this morning. Not exactly an uncommon scenario in the professional, governmental, and academic sectors of the world.

<Cue anecdotally based rebuttals based on one machine in a home setting in 3...2...1...>

Of the millions upon millions upon millions of computers using Windows 10, I'd say that the people responsible for 100k+ deployments are the small data point, no? There are several dozen of those people, and often, they're not in position to make the final purchasing decisions.

Kxmode wrote on Jul 30, 2020, 02:58:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 23:07:
BeOS was the last original OS. Everything since has been regurgitated shit. Yes, even my much beloved Linux after Canonical came in to being.

For the people with their finger stuck up their nose saying "I don't have problems with Windows 10", great. You're an infinitesimal point on a data plot. Meanwhile, my colleagues who are responsible for 100K+ deployments would viciously, and probably rather violently in the physical sense, disagree with you. KB4556799, in particular, required a team of software engineers from Microsoft to fly down to see why things had gone so catastrophically wrong. The first half of this year alone saw a multitude of high profile Windows failures worldwide. The latest problem seems to be with Windows' own window manager if you're opening and closing the lid on laptops with external displays attached based on the last sysalert thread I read this morning. Not exactly an uncommon scenario in the professional, governmental, and academic sectors of the world.

<Cue anecdotally based rebuttals based on one machine in a home setting in 3...2...1...>

I'm not an infinitesimal data plot. I'm a person!

I thought you were a meat popsicle?

Burrito of Peace wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 23:07:
BeOS was the last original OS. Everything since has been regurgitated shit. Yes, even my much beloved Linux after Canonical came in to being.

For the people with their finger stuck up their nose saying "I don't have problems with Windows 10", great. You're an infinitesimal point on a data plot. Meanwhile, my colleagues who are responsible for 100K+ deployments would viciously, and probably rather violently in the physical sense, disagree with you. KB4556799, in particular, required a team of software engineers from Microsoft to fly down to see why things had gone so catastrophically wrong. The first half of this year alone saw a multitude of high profile Windows failures worldwide. The latest problem seems to be with Windows' own window manager if you're opening and closing the lid on laptops with external displays attached based on the last sysalert thread I read this morning. Not exactly an uncommon scenario in the professional, governmental, and academic sectors of the world.

<Cue anecdotally based rebuttals based on one machine in a home setting in 3...2...1...>

I'm not an infinitesimal data plot. I'm a person!

Dev wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 17:47:
I mean there's the no more security updates thing that could make you vulnerable. And some of those are wormable. I would hope that you installed the couple of manual out of band updates they released for win 7 for the critical things, like what was it... bluekeep, and disabled SMB v1.

But yes, MS is all sorts of shady in the tactics they pulled. I had to install a 3rd party tool to prevent MS for forcing me to upgrade. I only upgraded when I got around to building a new box.

I have taken steps to mitigate security concerns, but I take your point that I'm more at risk.

BeOS was the last original OS. Everything since has been regurgitated shit. Yes, even my much beloved Linux after Canonical came in to being.

For the people with their finger stuck up their nose saying "I don't have problems with Windows 10", great. You're an infinitesimal point on a data plot. Meanwhile, my colleagues who are responsible for 100K+ deployments would viciously, and probably rather violently in the physical sense, disagree with you. KB4556799, in particular, required a team of software engineers from Microsoft to fly down to see why things had gone so catastrophically wrong. The first half of this year alone saw a multitude of high profile Windows failures worldwide. The latest problem seems to be with Windows' own window manager if you're opening and closing the lid on laptops with external displays attached based on the last sysalert thread I read this morning. Not exactly an uncommon scenario in the professional, governmental, and academic sectors of the world.

<Cue anecdotally based rebuttals based on one machine in a home setting in 3...2...1...>

Acleacius wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 20:38:
Dev, it could have been me instead of cyberpunk. I realize it's getting more and more popular, and I'm not disagreeing. It's hard not to be popular when your free. It's sort of like some shady guy on the corner handing out free beer and you got no idea how it's made. Sure some people will go, "oh, it's got beer written on the label", It must be the "goes in" kind of beer! They can't sell the "already comes out" kind of beer in a can, can they?
Yeah, I thought it was pretty weird of them to finally admit they can do it, and then offer it. Iirc, they said it would be offered to all the developers and would be up to each of them whether they want to use/develop it for their game. But my memory fails me, wish I could blame it on age but it's sleep deprivation. I'm a 24/7 caregiver for my "nuttier than a fruit cake mother" (schizophrenia), which I call her (kidding on the square) and makes her laugh.

No, you are right. I had to double check which earlier OS they had done dx12 for before responding earlier and that's what they said in the article, that it was up to the devs, and that there was a giant guide from MS on how to do it. And Blizzard with WoW were basically the only ones who cared enough to do it for win 7 right before EOL lol.

HoSpanky, I'm not sure it's hatred but certainly don't trust it. To me at least, it seems more like rational cautionary hesitation ism?
Don't you and the others remember how m$ was slurping up data, essentially using win 10 as their own malware. Not to mention, constantly breaking and screwing it up on updates. Oh, wasn't there also forced updates, backdoor updates too? I know I'm forgetting some stuff, sorry. The point, obviously is that even now years after release it's still screwed up and mostly because m$'s blatant corruption.

Dev, it could have been me instead of cyberpunk. I realize it's getting more and more popular, and I'm not disagreeing. It's hard not to be popular when your free. It's sort of like some shady guy on the corner handing out free beer and you got no idea how it's made. Sure some people will go, "oh, it's got beer written on the label", It must be the "goes in" kind of beer! They can't sell the "already comes out" kind of beer in a can, can they?
Yeah, I thought it was pretty weird of them to finally admit they can do it, and then offer it. Iirc, they said it would be offered to all the developers and would be up to each of them whether they want to use/develop it for their game. But my memory fails me, wish I could blame it on age but it's sleep deprivation. I'm a 24/7 caregiver for my "nuttier than a fruit cake mother" (schizophrenia), which I call her (kidding on the square) and makes her laugh.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 14:48:
How much does the Incomplete Version cost?

It costs abo

fakespyder wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 17:30:
I'm still on windows 7 because so far I've had no reason to upgrade. Everything I want to work is working and working well. I don't think it is that hard to understand.

But sure, eventually I'll have to make the jump.
I was definitely put-off by Microsoft's strategy to get people to adopt Win10. Shady crap like making cancel button accept the update. Then, yes the privacy concerns, the resetting of configs when they force an update, I could go on.

Again, I'm sure it is a good OS but so is Win7 (at least for some of us).
When a game comes along that I really want to play and only supports Win10, that's when I will reluctantly make the move.

I mean there's the no more security updates thing that could make you vulnerable. And some of those are wormable. I would hope that you installed the couple of manual out of band updates they released for win 7 for the critical things, like what was it... bluekeep, and disabled SMB v1.

But yes, MS is all sorts of shady in the tactics they pulled. I had to install a 3rd party tool to prevent MS for forcing me to upgrade. I only upgraded when I got around to building a new box.

I'm still on windows 7 because so far I've had no reason to upgrade. Everything I want to work is working and working well. I don't think it is that hard to understand.

But sure, eventually I'll have to make the jump.
I was definitely put-off by Microsoft's strategy to get people to adopt Win10. Shady crap like making cancel button accept the update. Then, yes the privacy concerns, the resetting of configs when they force an update, I could go on.

Again, I'm sure it is a good OS but so is Win7 (at least for some of us).
When a game comes along that I really want to play and only supports Win10, that's when I will reluctantly make the move.

Acleacius wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 15:38:
I appreciate the info, Dev. But I'm not really one for Voluntary Polls being that accurate. However unless someone comes up with a fix (there was info recently about m$ offering a patch for win 7 to play dx 12 games) I'll definitely have to at least look into getting a separate drive to boot up, win craptastic 10.

As long as there's a random sample of people opting in, it won't change results. And pretty much all the parts of the survey are automatically gathered, not user questions. Polls based on a random representative sample pool are accurate.
The last time this conversation came up a few weeks ago with valve surveys with someone claiming there'd be a huge loss from a game targeting directx 12 (I think it was in the cyberpunk threads), there were people that answered with generic market share data about windows 10 that were tracking fairly close to what valve's data is, so unless you have a lot of specific evidence and studies, I'm satisfied that valve's data is accurate here. Windows 10 came out 5 years ago, so the numbers also make sense in a time perspective.

But yeah, it's real easy to get a separate boot drive to boot it. Either an external for least effort (USB3 suggested), or internal. If you are looking for internal spinning disk, keep in mind best deal may be a shucked external drive on sale.

As for fix, it's extremely unlikely MS will ever bring dx12 to any other OS, and it was weird of them to back port pieces of it to 7 just before EOL anyway, especially when they've long refused to do another SP for it and claimed for a long time dx12 was exclusive to win 10. And to do it for blizzard with WoW is just bizarre.

Kxmode wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 16:05:

HoSpanky wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 15:53:
I don't understand your hatred of win10, unless you have specific older software that you know for a fact won't run on 10. Aside from that, you just sound like an old man yelling at the sky at this point. MS has almost completely abandoned win7, and fairly so; they promised 10 years of support for it and they met that.

Incidentally, I had a customer come in today who wanted a "new computer with Windows 7", and was SHOCKED when I said we don't have any:
"We aren't going to sell a machine with an OS that Microsoft doesn't support."
"But (some company name) supports it!"
"Ok, but Microsoft doesn't."
"I don't care, what's the difference?"
"Uh...Microsoft MAKES Windows 7, I don't even know the company you mentioned."
(old man grumbling)..."Fine, well, you just lost a sale from me!"

Why anyone in 2020 would want to mess with Windows 7 on purpose is beyond me. I've only ever seen one BSOD in Windows 10, and that was because of an NVIDIA driver, which they caught and fixed a day later. If the reason not to upgrade is privacy concerns, Microsoft has added options to turn off all of that stuff down to a granular level. There are plenty of articles that show what to disable after installing/upgrading, and Microsoft is cool about not resetting them after installing updates as they did in the past. So unless someone decides to use Linux or Mac, there's no reason not to go with Windows 10.

They've had articles on how to disable all the privacy issues on day 1 launch. Like literally, the day I installed Windows 10 which was a few days prior to it releasing out to the masses, the article was already out. I followed that and had zero issues since. I once in a while check to see if anything changed and it hadn't.

Sure, you can feel like you are fighting a good fight against MS by sticking with Windows 7 but the only one really losing at this point is you. You have to go in the direction of the current at this point, not against it. I don't know what will come of Windows in the future, but so what. Let's deal with it then. For now, Windows 10 has been a rock solid stable OS for me. I personally have not had any BSOD with it and very very few gaming crashes since it's been out to present day.

please dont be a shitty console port

HoSpanky wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 15:53:
I don't understand your hatred of win10, unless you have specific older software that you know for a fact won't run on 10. Aside from that, you just sound like an old man yelling at the sky at this point. MS has almost completely abandoned win7, and fairly so; they promised 10 years of support for it and they met that.

Incidentally, I had a customer come in today who wanted a "new computer with Windows 7", and was SHOCKED when I said we don't have any:
"We aren't going to sell a machine with an OS that Microsoft doesn't support."
"But (some company name) supports it!"
"Ok, but Microsoft doesn't."
"I don't care, what's the difference?"
"Uh...Microsoft MAKES Windows 7, I don't even know the company you mentioned."
(old man grumbling)..."Fine, well, you just lost a sale from me!"

Why anyone in 2020 would want to mess with Windows 7 on purpose is beyond me. I've only ever seen one BSOD in Windows 10, and that was because of an NVIDIA driver, which they caught and fixed a day later. If the reason not to upgrade is privacy concerns, Microsoft has added options to turn off all of that stuff down to a granular level. There are plenty of articles that show what to disable after installing/upgrading, and Microsoft is cool about not resetting them after installing updates as they did in the past. So unless someone decides to use Linux or Mac, there's no reason not to go with Windows 10.

Dev wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 15:08:
I'm still hoping GMG puts this back on sale. I stupidly didn't order it when I had the chance. And now I'm probably going to spend the full price.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 14:48:
How much does the Incomplete Version cost?

It was originally $60 on PS4 right?
That's part of the benefit of waiting, we can get the whole thing.

Acleacius wrote on Jul 29, 2020, 12:53:
Crap, I thought this was Win 7 !

At this point win 10 is over 87% of average PC gamers, and win 7 is only about 6% of average PC gamers.
Interestingly win 10 jumped up over 1.5% over a month, wonder if that's the influence of the cyberpunk game being announced supporting DX12 ultimate.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

It could also be because Xbox Live service and games like Flight Simulator 2020 will be Windows 10-only.

I don't understand your hatred of win10, unless you have specific older software that you know for a fact won't run on 10. Aside from that, you just sound like an old man yelling at the sky at this point. MS has almost completely abandoned win7, and fairly so; they promised 10 years of support for it and they met that.

Incidentally, I had a customer come in today who wanted a "new computer with Windows 7", and was SHOCKED when I said we don't have any:
"We aren't going to sell a machine with an OS that Microsoft doesn't support."
"But (some company name) supports it!"
"Ok, but Microsoft doesn't."
"I don't care, what's the difference?"
"Uh...Microsoft MAKES Windows 7, I don't even know the company you mentioned."
(old man grumbling)..."Fine, well, you just lost a sale from me!"

I appreciate the info, Dev. But I'm not really one for Voluntary Polls being that accurate. However unless someone comes up with a fix (there was info recently about m$ offering a patch for win 7 to play dx 12 games) I'll definitely have to at least look into getting a separate drive to boot up, win craptastic 10.