Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership

In discussing the news of the "official" integration of GOG GALAXY 2.0 with the Epic Games Store, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney tweets: "Connect ALL the stores" (thanks Tessier). This is interesting in light of all the Epic Games Store exclusivity deals and came right before the announcement that Rocket League will no longer be offered to new players through Steam when the game makes its free-to-play debut on the Epic Games Store. But he further discusses how such cross-store integration could work in light of concerns about what would happen to players' game libraries should one of these stores close. He offers this tweet on ownership of digital games:
Ultimately, ownership of digital items should be a universal notion, independent of stores and platforms. So much of the digital world today is frustrated by powerful intermediaries whose toll booths obstruct open commerce to keep customers and their purchases locked in.
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55.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 24, 2020, 11:37
55.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 24, 2020, 11:37
Jul 24, 2020, 11:37
 
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 08:23:
No, I'm saying that 99.99% of AAA games aren't worth my money or time.
Well, depending on the number of games which qualify for that rating, I might actually agree. I mean I'm a gamer and have been since before personal computers were a thing. There are certainly many thousands of games available on the various platforms which hold no interest for me. I've owned my share, but I'm not like some here with literally 500+ games in my Steam library. That said, I realize there are many games which I have no interest in which are excellent, well made games. Different strokes for different folks.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
54.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 24, 2020, 11:24
54.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 24, 2020, 11:24
Jul 24, 2020, 11:24
 
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 08:23:
No, I'm saying that 99.99% of AAA games aren't worth my money or time.

Uhm... ok.
I'm sure EGS makes a wonderful Store for DRM-Free Indie games... but that doesn't work for me.
Get your games from GOG DAMMIT!
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53.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 17:22
53.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 17:22
Jul 23, 2020, 17:22
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 16:03:
Cutter wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 19:15:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:01:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:36:
With all due respect, Mr. Sweeney. You're the last person to talk about "universal ownership." If you genuinely believe in it, you can put your words into action by making all your store exclusives no longer exclusive. All this lip service is nothing more than PR. Anyone interested in using your store would've signed up by now. Continuing to hold third-party games hostage on your platform isn't going to change people's minds now. Please do the right thing by releasing publishers from their exclusivity contracts. Then focus on making your store as good or better than Steam. Only then will your platform succeed.

It's not up to Sweeney to make games exclusive or not. That's the publishers. If they don't want to sell exclusively on Epic, they'll reject Sweeney's offers. Publishers are the people you really should be complaining about.

Yes, but he's engaging in and promoting anti-consumerist behavior. That's like letting Hitler skate by saying, 'Well, people didn't have to join the Nazis.' You don't need running shoes to run but they sure fucking help.


Neither of your analogies really describes the situation.

Yes, there's blame on both sides but Epic is creating the opportunity and making it very lucrative There's still plenty of room for criticism on their side. It's not like the criticism for this is irrational.
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52.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 17:11
Kxmode
 
52.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 17:11
Jul 23, 2020, 17:11
 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 16:02:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 13:58:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:01:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:36:
With all due respect, Mr. Sweeney. You're the last person to talk about "universal ownership." If you genuinely believe in it, you can put your words into action by making all your store exclusives no longer exclusive. All this lip service is nothing more than PR. Anyone interested in using your store would've signed up by now. Continuing to hold third-party games hostage on your platform isn't going to change people's minds now. Please do the right thing by releasing publishers from their exclusivity contracts. Then focus on making your store as good or better than Steam. Only then will your platform succeed.

It's not up to Sweeney to make games exclusive or not. That's the publishers. If they don't want to sell exclusively on Epic, they'll reject Sweeney's offers. Publishers are the people you really should be complaining about.

Actually, no it's not up to publishers according to an email from an Epic Store rep. "We aren't in a position yet to open the store up to games that simship." That is an absolute lie because they allowed it for Cyberpunk 2077 and Red Dead Redemption 2. As the developer rightly said: "I wish there wasn't a double standard and indie developers were given an equal opportunity to sell their games across multiple storefronts, so the players can enjoy what they seem to want the most: a choice." That's precisely the opposite of what Tim is tweeting. What he says doesn't reflect the actions or values of his company. All that matters is WHAT Epic Games does. Based on their activities since launching their store, they are in no position to use "universal ownership" until they've earned it.
Then they can choose Steam. My point is that the publishers are choosing, not Epic.

Thumbsup
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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51.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 17:10
Kxmode
 
51.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 17:10
Jul 23, 2020, 17:10
 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 16:03:
Cutter wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 19:15:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:01:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:36:
With all due respect, Mr. Sweeney. You're the last person to talk about "universal ownership." If you genuinely believe in it, you can put your words into action by making all your store exclusives no longer exclusive. All this lip service is nothing more than PR. Anyone interested in using your store would've signed up by now. Continuing to hold third-party games hostage on your platform isn't going to change people's minds now. Please do the right thing by releasing publishers from their exclusivity contracts. Then focus on making your store as good or better than Steam. Only then will your platform succeed.

It's not up to Sweeney to make games exclusive or not. That's the publishers. If they don't want to sell exclusively on Epic, they'll reject Sweeney's offers. Publishers are the people you really should be complaining about.

Yes, but he's engaging in and promoting anti-consumerist behavior. That's like letting Hitler skate by saying, 'Well, people didn't have to join the Nazis.' You don't need running shoes to run but they sure fucking help.


Neither of your analogies really describes the situation.

He broke Godwin's law. Never go full Godwin's law.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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50.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 16:03
50.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 16:03
Jul 23, 2020, 16:03
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 19:15:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:01:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:36:
With all due respect, Mr. Sweeney. You're the last person to talk about "universal ownership." If you genuinely believe in it, you can put your words into action by making all your store exclusives no longer exclusive. All this lip service is nothing more than PR. Anyone interested in using your store would've signed up by now. Continuing to hold third-party games hostage on your platform isn't going to change people's minds now. Please do the right thing by releasing publishers from their exclusivity contracts. Then focus on making your store as good or better than Steam. Only then will your platform succeed.

It's not up to Sweeney to make games exclusive or not. That's the publishers. If they don't want to sell exclusively on Epic, they'll reject Sweeney's offers. Publishers are the people you really should be complaining about.

Yes, but he's engaging in and promoting anti-consumerist behavior. That's like letting Hitler skate by saying, 'Well, people didn't have to join the Nazis.' You don't need running shoes to run but they sure fucking help.


Neither of your analogies really describes the situation.
"Even after you've had the COVID-19 vaccine, you still need to wash hands, watch distance and wear a mask because you can still transmit the virus even though you're not going to get sick." - NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
Avatar 22024
49.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 16:02
49.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 16:02
Jul 23, 2020, 16:02
 
Kxmode wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 13:58:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:01:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:36:
With all due respect, Mr. Sweeney. You're the last person to talk about "universal ownership." If you genuinely believe in it, you can put your words into action by making all your store exclusives no longer exclusive. All this lip service is nothing more than PR. Anyone interested in using your store would've signed up by now. Continuing to hold third-party games hostage on your platform isn't going to change people's minds now. Please do the right thing by releasing publishers from their exclusivity contracts. Then focus on making your store as good or better than Steam. Only then will your platform succeed.

It's not up to Sweeney to make games exclusive or not. That's the publishers. If they don't want to sell exclusively on Epic, they'll reject Sweeney's offers. Publishers are the people you really should be complaining about.

Actually, no it's not up to publishers according to an email from an Epic Store rep. "We aren't in a position yet to open the store up to games that simship." That is an absolute lie because they allowed it for Cyberpunk 2077 and Red Dead Redemption 2. As the developer rightly said: "I wish there wasn't a double standard and indie developers were given an equal opportunity to sell their games across multiple storefronts, so the players can enjoy what they seem to want the most: a choice." That's precisely the opposite of what Tim is tweeting. What he says doesn't reflect the actions or values of his company. All that matters is WHAT Epic Games does. Based on their activities since launching their store, they are in no position to use "universal ownership" until they've earned it.
Then they can choose Steam. My point is that the publishers are choosing, not Epic.
"Even after you've had the COVID-19 vaccine, you still need to wash hands, watch distance and wear a mask because you can still transmit the virus even though you're not going to get sick." - NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
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48.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 15:14
48.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 15:14
Jul 23, 2020, 15:14
 
Seems fine to me. If all the stores were interlinked like what Galaxy does then what difference would exclusivity make?

Buy it on epic, launch it steam. Done. I launch all my games off galaxy today. It's great!

I also agree with Sweeney that if I own a digital asset then I should own it. I shouldn't need to re-buy it if I want to run it off a different platform like steam if I bought it on epic or gog. Galaxy effectively masks that problem but it does mean you don't own the asset. You own it through the platform. If the platform dies your ownership of that asset dies with it. That's always irked me (not that it's happened much).
47.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 13:58
Kxmode
 
47.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 13:58
Jul 23, 2020, 13:58
 Kxmode
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:01:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:36:
With all due respect, Mr. Sweeney. You're the last person to talk about "universal ownership." If you genuinely believe in it, you can put your words into action by making all your store exclusives no longer exclusive. All this lip service is nothing more than PR. Anyone interested in using your store would've signed up by now. Continuing to hold third-party games hostage on your platform isn't going to change people's minds now. Please do the right thing by releasing publishers from their exclusivity contracts. Then focus on making your store as good or better than Steam. Only then will your platform succeed.

It's not up to Sweeney to make games exclusive or not. That's the publishers. If they don't want to sell exclusively on Epic, they'll reject Sweeney's offers. Publishers are the people you really should be complaining about.

Actually, no it's not up to publishers according to an email from an Epic Store rep. "We aren't in a position yet to open the store up to games that simship." That is an absolute lie because they allowed it for Cyberpunk 2077 and Red Dead Redemption 2. As the developer rightly said: "I wish there wasn't a double standard and indie developers were given an equal opportunity to sell their games across multiple storefronts, so the players can enjoy what they seem to want the most: a choice." That's precisely the opposite of what Tim is tweeting. What he says doesn't reflect the actions or values of his company. All that matters is WHAT Epic Games does. Based on their activities since launching their store, they are in no position to use "universal ownership" until they've earned it.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
46.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 13:46
Kxmode
 
46.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 13:46
Jul 23, 2020, 13:46
 Kxmode
 
Darks wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 16:29:
Silent Bob wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:38:
Avus wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 12:26:
I definitely worry Epic game store will go out of business MUCH MORE than Steam.

It’s interesting. For Valve, Steam is the endless stream of revenue that drives the rest of their business. It’s also allowed them to make enough mistakes that would have shut down most other companies. Or forced them into a buyout.

For Epic, it’s Fortnite and that revenue won’t last forever. So the clock is ticking for them to take enough of Steam’s market share to generate a sustainable profit.

I really wonder what the conversion rate of a game that was exclusive on EGS, and people who bought it there actually moved over to Steam once it became available. I'm betting a lot! And I know a few people who have done exactly that!

I know what the argument here could be, that they already got their slice of the pie from the sale, but the real problem is, they cant maintain that slice of the pie if you keep loosing out to Steam, the preferred platform.

The change to Steam's Distribution Agreement last year put a nail in the coffin of publishers using Valve's platform to build-up hype for their title only to remove it for EGS exclusivity, or block Epic from shopping on Steam for publishers to poach. Per the agreement change, publishers agree that if they put their game on Valve, they must deliver the game within 30 days of the release date, and localized versions and updates when available.

This comment was edited on Jul 23, 2020, 14:10.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
45.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 09:36
45.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 09:36
Jul 23, 2020, 09:36
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 09:18:
Beamer wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 09:10:
Jonjonz wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 06:36:
This is laughable coming from one of the industries main proponents of "games as a service."

Is it incompatible? Fortnite is his plan for games as a service. People own Fortnite.

Anyway, I read what Sweeney is saying is to change the rules. Epic is playing by the current rules, but wants new rules. They do not feel confident in being able to start a new business and create new rules, but they'd like the end-state to be new rules.

Unless there is huge consumer demand, changing the rules as an entrant is new impossible. Changing the rules when you're competing with someone that has a >80% share is also near impossible, again, unless consumers are going to choose you vs the incumbent due to those new rules. I think GOG proves that this isn't true, as GOG is a fraction of a percent the size of Steam despite no DRM.
The de facto Monopoly makes the rules.
I'm glad Mr. Sweeney is suggesting that there is a better way for the consumer.
No, Sweeney is suggesting a better way for his company. When you are a wealthy, but medium-sized, competitor against an industry leader, without as much cash on hand but with a loyal fan-base, what would you attack? The loyalty.

Valve's greatest asset at this point is those consumers who don't want multiple services for their games (for whatever reasons). So, Sweeney is suggesting universal ownership so that the vast Steam libraries many consumers already have will also be accessible on EGS. That way a consumer has no barrier to using just EGS if they only want to use one service.

Were the situations reversed, there is no way that Epic would be suggesting this move. They are attacking brand loyalty because that's what their main competitor has and they don't. It's as simple as that. The sort of people that think this is consumer friendly must be the same sort of people who believe their bank when it sends out ads that say, "We care about you." When you recognize that 50% of the population is at or below average IQ (by definition), and yet are 50% of the consuming public, you'll understand why some folks take Sweeney at his word...
44.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 09:18
44.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 09:18
Jul 23, 2020, 09:18
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 09:10:
Jonjonz wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 06:36:
This is laughable coming from one of the industries main proponents of "games as a service."

Is it incompatible? Fortnite is his plan for games as a service. People own Fortnite.

Anyway, I read what Sweeney is saying is to change the rules. Epic is playing by the current rules, but wants new rules. They do not feel confident in being able to start a new business and create new rules, but they'd like the end-state to be new rules.

Unless there is huge consumer demand, changing the rules as an entrant is new impossible. Changing the rules when you're competing with someone that has a >80% share is also near impossible, again, unless consumers are going to choose you vs the incumbent due to those new rules. I think GOG proves that this isn't true, as GOG is a fraction of a percent the size of Steam despite no DRM.
The de facto Monopoly makes the rules.
I'm glad Mr. Sweeney is suggesting that there is a better way for the consumer.
Avatar 58135
43.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 09:10
43.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 09:10
Jul 23, 2020, 09:10
 
Jonjonz wrote on Jul 23, 2020, 06:36:
This is laughable coming from one of the industries main proponents of "games as a service."

Is it incompatible? Fortnite is his plan for games as a service. People own Fortnite.

Anyway, I read what Sweeney is saying is to change the rules. Epic is playing by the current rules, but wants new rules. They do not feel confident in being able to start a new business and create new rules, but they'd like the end-state to be new rules.

Unless there is huge consumer demand, changing the rules as an entrant is new impossible. Changing the rules when you're competing with someone that has a >80% share is also near impossible, again, unless consumers are going to choose you vs the incumbent due to those new rules. I think GOG proves that this isn't true, as GOG is a fraction of a percent the size of Steam despite no DRM.
42.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 08:23
42.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 08:23
Jul 23, 2020, 08:23
 
wtf_man wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:24:
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 14:46:
wtf_man wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 12:49:
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 11:49:
For a solid portion of EGS titles (over half the titles I've grabbed through the weekly freebies), the EGS launcher can be ignored after installation.

I've seen this expressed before in another thread... but never got my subsequent questions answered.

* How many of those "over 50% EGS Titles" that can allegedly ignore the launcher are AAA games that have all forms of DRM removed? (Not Indies)
* Do they clearly state that the launcher is not required on the game's page? (Before I buy)
Since I haven't purchased any AAA titles on EGS (or on any other platform in the last couple of years), the AAA games I have on EGS are limited to the various freebies.

Of those, the Batman games (LEGO and Arkham) all run without EGS and the Ubisoft titles require Uplay login (like they do everywhere else),

So, you are basically saying that my chances of finding a DRM-Free AAA game that is not already on GOG is slim to none? Sign me up!
No, I'm saying that 99.99% of AAA games aren't worth my money or time.
41.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 23, 2020, 06:36
41.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 23, 2020, 06:36
Jul 23, 2020, 06:36
 
This is laughable coming from one of the industries main proponents of "games as a service."
"Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss." - The Who.
Avatar 57379
40.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 22, 2020, 23:42
40.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 22, 2020, 23:42
Jul 22, 2020, 23:42
 
Shouldn't we be celebrating that we're hearing something like this from someone who has a serious chance at disrupting the digital marketplace and making this happen?

Hearing this and seeing some collaboration between Epic and GOG seems like great news. Especially because of how well what he's saying lines up with that GOG have been offering with GOG Connect for a while now.

I get that it's two-faced to be saying this while claiming so many exclusive for the EGS... but Epic can't negotiate the sort of vision that Sweeney is talking about if the EGS has no market share.

I'm hopeful for a GOG Connect like announcement from Epic in the near future ("we've been talking to publishers, and if you own one of their games on Steam you can have it on the EGS").
39.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 22, 2020, 22:23
39.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 22, 2020, 22:23
Jul 22, 2020, 22:23
 
Simon Says wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 21:58:
Advocates for something, ownership should be universal, so all games should be available on all stores, while doing the exact opposite, RL going Crap Store exclusive from now on... AGAIN.

Don't gauge someone by what he says, look at what HE DOES.

If you're still fooled by the Epicly Crappy Store and this guy after all the saying one thing while doing exactly the opposite... I really don't know what to say to you at this point. I give up.


Certainly there's some self-interest here. The exclusives that Sweeney gets become less onerous if there's some ownership that's not store dependent. Ditto for concerns on whether EGS will be around after Fortnite goes away.
"Even after you've had the COVID-19 vaccine, you still need to wash hands, watch distance and wear a mask because you can still transmit the virus even though you're not going to get sick." - NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
Avatar 22024
38.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 22, 2020, 21:58
38.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 22, 2020, 21:58
Jul 22, 2020, 21:58
 
Advocates for something, ownership should be universal, so all games should be available on all stores, while doing the exact opposite, RL going Crap Store exclusive from now on... AGAIN.

Don't gauge someone by what he says, look at what HE DOES.

If you're still fooled by the Epicly Crappy Store and this guy after all the saying one thing while doing exactly the opposite... I really don't know what to say to you at this point. I give up.

37.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 22, 2020, 19:18
37.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 22, 2020, 19:18
Jul 22, 2020, 19:18
36.
 
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership
Jul 22, 2020, 19:15
36.
Re: Tim Sweeney on Digital Ownership Jul 22, 2020, 19:15
Jul 22, 2020, 19:15
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 18:01:
Kxmode wrote on Jul 22, 2020, 13:36:
With all due respect, Mr. Sweeney. You're the last person to talk about "universal ownership." If you genuinely believe in it, you can put your words into action by making all your store exclusives no longer exclusive. All this lip service is nothing more than PR. Anyone interested in using your store would've signed up by now. Continuing to hold third-party games hostage on your platform isn't going to change people's minds now. Please do the right thing by releasing publishers from their exclusivity contracts. Then focus on making your store as good or better than Steam. Only then will your platform succeed.

It's not up to Sweeney to make games exclusive or not. That's the publishers. If they don't want to sell exclusively on Epic, they'll reject Sweeney's offers. Publishers are the people you really should be complaining about.

Yes, but he's engaging in and promoting anti-consumerist behavior. That's like letting Hitler skate by saying, 'Well, people didn't have to join the Nazis.' You don't need running shoes to run but they sure fucking help.

"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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