Out of the Blue

We had a pleasant Independence Day. I made sausage & peppers and some burgers and we got to see fireworks from the comfort of our deck. This all worked out great, and certainly was easy. Here's hoping things turned out equally safely and well for you if you were celebrating the occasion.

Obituary: Pioneering James Bond and Doctor Who actor Earl Cameron dead at 102. Thanks Neutronbeam.

Celebratory Links
Thanks Ant and Neutronbeam.

Brunch Link

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Follow-up

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20.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 6, 2020, 09:39
20.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 6, 2020, 09:39
Jul 6, 2020, 09:39
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 18:06:
Mr. Tact wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 18:01:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 17:55:
Are you guys joking? We know this in the EU since March - why you think full face masks are MANDATORY here?
There are two different things here. Spreading from droplets produced by coughing, sneezing or talking is one thing, actual "airborne" is different. The first is certainly happening and is very significantly reduced by wearing a mask. The second would come straight out of the air without the droplets, this is what the "report" or whatever you want to call it is claiming, which masking might reduce, but less effectively.

Is this a language barrier thing? Something that is airborne is something you can get from breathing. And this applies to this virus 100% and has been known since March. Small air droplets are called aerosols for a reason. They are airborne by nature, outside and in good ventilated areas they fall to the ground instantly and dry up, in bad climate (cold air, recirculation) you can get infected. This has happened and has been explored IN DETAIL in 5 different meat factories in Germany, in at least 6 known in France and at least 4 known in Austria, where the virus spread through the climate circulation cooling system in the factory. That is the literal definition of airborne in my book.

And again, we guessed this since March, that it could spread through climate systems was confirmed in June and fully confirmed after 1 infected infected over 1500 people in a factory with a recirculating cooling system. The virus spread over the cold air and infected *everyone* that is why this virus is so tame right now, when winter comes this will become a 2nd wave. Which is why I am keeping to these rules, mask and distance, no singing, shouting, no places with lots of people and more distance and outside whenever possible. Climate controlled environments are potentially safe, and potentially unsafe, depends on the climate systems. Obviously where you should not be right now is anywhere where it's around 6°C and 40-100% humid since this is apparently the environment where this virus is air transmittable, and not just via droplets.

I mean, did no one in your US science community listen to the podcast of Dr. Drosten? The person that literally wrote the science on corona virus (Sars 1 was discovered by him, and he is leading researcher along with his institute on this new virus, that it could spread via aersols and not just via droplets was a well reasoned theory in March and proof for it came in June)

Edit: I just realized, could it really be nothing of the research we did in Germany reached the US or WHO? Drosten said in his (many) podcasts that scientists could prove that it could spread via aerosols, although they used a much higher base rate of aerosols than breathing would cause. Later on when the Tönnes hotspot was investigated it was found the virus had become fully airborne in the factory, due to temperature (5-7°C) and high humidity. Unique situation? Hardly, the same situation happened in many other meat processing plants.

And maybe worse, here in Germany we call that climate situation "Winter"

I think you guys are saying the same thing. It's possible that the aerosoled narrative is suppressed due to the economic damage or the liability of those in the west that didn't act on it.

We had basically nixed it in cold, wet Victoria Australia so we chilled out, our tourism has never been busier (Since rich idiots can't travel to greece at the moment). It's primarily hitting more working class/poor suburbs and people in high density housing that do all the crappy jobs that people expect you to do even in a pandemic like sanituation, security, baggage handling, cafes etc. It's back now and going buck wild. Maybe it dosn't kill as many people as we feared but not interested in spending three months tubed up in hospital before dieing or watching my parents being triaged out of the treatment program due to age or some shit if it gets bad enough.
19.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 6, 2020, 06:58
19.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 6, 2020, 06:58
Jul 6, 2020, 06:58
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 6, 2020, 00:46:
WannaLogAlready wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 21:00:
The reports on worrying airborne transmission are forthcoming, no need to prejudge or idiotically make another political stance out of it.

Just wait for eventual informed consensus or disagreement.
We *need* to know, and if proven, the correct use of this info will save lives.

I posit the existence of male Karens, projecting their own shrill reactions and fear upon unwary others.

I forget, are you in Brazil or Argentina? Anyway, stay safe man. Love you comments, and would miss them if you got sick.

Hi jdreyer,
Argentina it is. Public health is taken very seriously here, and is free.
All the same I pay monthly for one of the better known private health services, and not very costly at all.
My ex was in one of the best sanatories in the country for almost two weeks, in a room for herself only, with bathroom , cable tv, amenities, excellent care and medication.
What did I have to pay, extra ? Not.one.cent. Zero, nada.
Didn´t even receive a bill or had to sign a single paper. All taken care off by the Obra Social.

But economically we are royally served, because of bad administrations and corruption by decades of incompetent populists.
Incredibly, you have one of the worst ones now, truly sorry to see that.

I cringe and fear reading about our Brazilian brothers and sisters.
President Bolsonaro is killing his people, a Trump clone.




18.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 6, 2020, 01:47
Jivaro
 
18.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 6, 2020, 01:47
Jul 6, 2020, 01:47
 Jivaro
 
Dress like you are playing an arpg. Wear that +15% disease resist mask (numbers totally made up) until you get something better.
Avatar 55841
17.
 
Re: What is it w/Costco
Jul 6, 2020, 00:52
17.
Re: What is it w/Costco Jul 6, 2020, 00:52
Jul 6, 2020, 00:52
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 17:48:
A Karen w/a mask hanging off one ear refuses to put it on, claims she has a medical problem and then says she doesn't. (Is a mental health problem medical?)
She also claimed it was a Constitutional issue, which it ain't.

Karen's, gotta love'em, as long as they're not armed of course.

It's not just women.

A McDonald’s employee in Oakland said she was grabbed, hit and slapped by a customer after she told him he had to wear a face mask in order to receive his order, according to a complaint filed with a state agency.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
16.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 6, 2020, 00:46
16.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 6, 2020, 00:46
Jul 6, 2020, 00:46
 
WannaLogAlready wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 21:00:
The reports on worrying airborne transmission are forthcoming, no need to prejudge or idiotically make another political stance out of it.

Just wait for eventual informed consensus or disagreement.
We *need* to know, and if proven, the correct use of this info will save lives.

I posit the existence of male Karens, projecting their own shrill reactions and fear upon unwary others.

I forget, are you in Brazil or Argentina? Anyway, stay safe man. Love you comments, and would miss them if you got sick.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
15.
 
Re: What is it w/Costco
Jul 5, 2020, 21:50
15.
Re: What is it w/Costco Jul 5, 2020, 21:50
Jul 5, 2020, 21:50
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 17:48:
A Karen w/a mask hanging off one ear refuses to put it on, claims she has a medical problem and then says she doesn't. (Is a mental health problem medical?)
She also claimed it was a Constitutional issue, which it ain't.

Karen's, gotta love'em, as long as they're not armed of course.

the stupid irony of just parroting right wing talking points, like saying 'i have constitutional rights' makes you some kind of legal expert while completely ignoring the fact that constitutional rights don't apply when you're on someone else's private property, nor the fact that the constitution has always given way to the needs of public safety.
14.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 21:19
14.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 21:19
Jul 5, 2020, 21:19
 
There is obviously no difference between 279 medical professionals and a couple swinging dicks in a gaming forum. smh
A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test. It's a compassion test. It's a decency test. It's a social responsibility test.
Cover Your Eyes for even more protection.
Avatar 58135
13.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 21:00
13.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 21:00
Jul 5, 2020, 21:00
 

The reports on worrying airborne transmission are forthcoming, no need to prejudge or idiotically make another political stance out of it.

Just wait for eventual informed consensus or disagreement.
We *need* to know, and if proven, the correct use of this info will save lives.

I posit the existence of male Karens, projecting their own shrill reactions and fear upon unwary others.


This comment was edited on Jul 5, 2020, 21:12.
12.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 19:59
12.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 19:59
Jul 5, 2020, 19:59
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 19:19:
I was attempting to relay the difference between droplets which have been aerosolized those which have not. I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly?) that CV was known to have been transmitted by non-aerosolized droplets, but not by aerosolized droplets. In other words, imagine two people separated by two barriers. One barrier extends from the floor to an inch from the ceiling. Another two inches away from the first, extends from the ceiling to an inch from the floor. Air can travel between the two of you, but you wouldn't be able to get spittle from one to the other. In this situation only a something being aerosolized could be transmitted between the two. If spittle was required, you could not transmit. Apologies if my previous attempt was lacking...

Don't mind, I used my reply to order my own thoughts and information on the matter more than just replying to you. The info is fast moving and new things are discovered and some old ideas discarded, it's hard to keep track. And yes, unless you had a machine circulating the air, in your situation far as we know the people would be perfectly safe. It's when machines cool contaminated air (form aerosol droplets simply due to how they work) that you get humid air full of aerosols with virus load. So in that sense I guess it would not be airborne in the WHO definition. But it can spread over the air up to 10 meters in distance in a closed room when you are singing or shouting or heavily breathing without barriers in place.

Unless you are working in a meat-processing plant you are not likely to encounter low temperatures and high humidity + people not wearing masks. Which obviously is the primary reason the virus spread so hard there.
Avatar 54727
11.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 19:19
11.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 19:19
Jul 5, 2020, 19:19
 
I was attempting to relay the difference between droplets which have been aerosolized those which have not. I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly?) that CV was known to have been transmitted by non-aerosolized droplets, but not by aerosolized droplets. In other words, imagine two people separated by two barriers. One barrier extends from the floor to an inch from the ceiling. Another two inches away from the first, extends from the ceiling to an inch from the floor. Air can travel between the two of you, but you wouldn't be able to get spittle from one to the other. In this situation only a something being aerosolized could be transmitted between the two. If spittle was required, you could not transmit. Apologies if my previous attempt was lacking...
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
10.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 18:06
10.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 18:06
Jul 5, 2020, 18:06
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 18:01:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 17:55:
Are you guys joking? We know this in the EU since March - why you think full face masks are MANDATORY here?
There are two different things here. Spreading from droplets produced by coughing, sneezing or talking is one thing, actual "airborne" is different. The first is certainly happening and is very significantly reduced by wearing a mask. The second would come straight out of the air without the droplets, this is what the "report" or whatever you want to call it is claiming, which masking might reduce, but less effectively.

Is this a language barrier thing? Something that is airborne is something you can get from breathing. And this applies to this virus 100% and has been known since March. Small air droplets are called aerosols for a reason. They are airborne by nature, outside and in good ventilated areas they fall to the ground instantly and dry up, in bad climate (cold air, recirculation) you can get infected. This has happened and has been explored IN DETAIL in 5 different meat factories in Germany, in at least 6 known in France and at least 4 known in Austria, where the virus spread through the climate circulation cooling system in the factory. That is the literal definition of airborne in my book.

And again, we guessed this since March, that it could spread through climate systems was confirmed in June and fully confirmed after 1 infected infected over 1500 people in a factory with a recirculating cooling system. The virus spread over the cold air and infected *everyone* that is why this virus is so tame right now, when winter comes this will become a 2nd wave. Which is why I am keeping to these rules, mask and distance, no singing, shouting, no places with lots of people and more distance and outside whenever possible. Climate controlled environments are potentially safe, and potentially unsafe, depends on the climate systems. Obviously where you should not be right now is anywhere where it's around 6°C and 40-100% humid since this is apparently the environment where this virus is air transmittable, and not just via droplets.

I mean, did no one in your US science community listen to the podcast of Dr. Drosten? The person that literally wrote the science on corona virus (Sars 1 was discovered by him, and he is leading researcher along with his institute on this new virus, that it could spread via aersols and not just via droplets was a well reasoned theory in March and proof for it came in June)

Edit: I just realized, could it really be nothing of the research we did in Germany reached the US or WHO? Drosten said in his (many) podcasts that scientists could prove that it could spread via aerosols, although they used a much higher base rate of aerosols than breathing would cause. Later on when the Tönnes hotspot was investigated it was found the virus had become fully airborne in the factory, due to temperature (5-7°C) and high humidity. Unique situation? Hardly, the same situation happened in many other meat processing plants.

And maybe worse, here in Germany we call that climate situation "Winter"

This comment was edited on Jul 5, 2020, 18:43.
Avatar 54727
9.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 18:05
9.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 18:05
Jul 5, 2020, 18:05
 
If labeling it airborne causes one inbred redneck bubba to wear a mask than by all means label that shit airborne.

Some of the common infections that can spread via airborne transmission include, but are not limited to, the following:
Anthrax (inhalation)
Chickenpox.
Influenza.
Measles.
Smallpox.
Cryptococcosis.
Tuberculosis.
A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test. It's a compassion test. It's a decency test. It's a social responsibility test.
Cover Your Eyes for even more protection.
Avatar 58135
8.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 18:01
8.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 18:01
Jul 5, 2020, 18:01
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 17:55:
Are you guys joking? We know this in the EU since March - why you think full face masks are MANDATORY here?
There are two different things here. Spreading from droplets produced by coughing, sneezing or talking is one thing, actual "airborne" is different. The first is certainly happening and is very significantly reduced by wearing a mask. The second would come straight out of the air without the droplets, this is what the "report" or whatever you want to call it is claiming, which masking might reduce, but less effectively.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
7.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 17:56
7.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 17:56
Jul 5, 2020, 17:56
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 17:35:
Shrill Liberal: The sky is falling!

"However, the health agency said the evidence for the virus being airborne was not convincing, according to the NYT. "

Wrong again, as usual.
I admit I was simply responding to Redeye, didn't look at the article, but what I said for the US holds true.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
6.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 17:55
6.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 17:55
Jul 5, 2020, 17:55
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 17:08:
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 16:46:
239 Experts With 1 Big Claim: The Coronavirus Is Airborne
Well fuckityfuckityfuckityfuck
This is bad news outside the US. Inside the US we are doing such a good job spreading it around it won't make a difference.

Are you guys joking? We know this in the EU since March - why you think full face masks are MANDATORY here? Singing/shouting + indoors in particular is the situation where lots of particles are spread around from inside your mouth and that transmits the virus. This has been common knowledge for nearly 3 months!

And obviously small particles are AIRBORNE and CAN transmit the virus, how else you think more than 3 different choirs got infected in Germany, despite fully keeping the required distance at all times? They didn't all kiss each other.
Avatar 54727
5.
 
What is it w/Costco
Jul 5, 2020, 17:48
5.
What is it w/Costco Jul 5, 2020, 17:48
Jul 5, 2020, 17:48
 
A Karen w/a mask hanging off one ear refuses to put it on, claims she has a medical problem and then says she doesn't. (Is a mental health problem medical?)
She also claimed it was a Constitutional issue, which it ain't.

Karen's, gotta love'em, as long as they're not armed of course.
A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test. It's a compassion test. It's a decency test. It's a social responsibility test.
Cover Your Eyes for even more protection.
Avatar 58135
4.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 17:35
Cutter
 
4.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 17:35
Jul 5, 2020, 17:35
 Cutter
 
Shrill Liberal: The sky is falling!

"However, the health agency said the evidence for the virus being airborne was not convincing, according to the NYT. "

Wrong again, as usual.
"If you're going through Hell...keep going."
- Winston Churchill
Avatar 25394
3.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 17:08
3.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 17:08
Jul 5, 2020, 17:08
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 16:46:
239 Experts With 1 Big Claim: The Coronavirus Is Airborne
Well fuckityfuckityfuckityfuck
This is bad news outside the US. Inside the US we are doing such a good job spreading it around it won't make a difference.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
2.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 16:46
2.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 16:46
Jul 5, 2020, 16:46
 
239 Experts With 1 Big Claim: The Coronavirus Is Airborne
Well fuckityfuckityfuckityfuck
A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test. It's a compassion test. It's a decency test. It's a social responsibility test.
Cover Your Eyes for even more protection.
Avatar 58135
1.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Jul 5, 2020, 15:54
1.
Re: Out of the Blue Jul 5, 2020, 15:54
Jul 5, 2020, 15:54
 
Usually, the city puts on a massive fireworks display, and 10,000s come to the park to watch it live. Obviously, can't do that this year. So I was hoping a bunch of private people would either put on their usual display across the city, or even a beefed up display. Oddly, that didn't happen either. There were almost no fireworks here at all this year. I suppose the upside is that I got a good 9 hours of sleep.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
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