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25.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 7, 2020, 18:58
25.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 7, 2020, 18:58
Jul 7, 2020, 18:58
24.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 6, 2020, 22:40
24.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 6, 2020, 22:40
Jul 6, 2020, 22:40
 
D-Rock wrote on Jul 6, 2020, 11:27:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 16:22:
When you or I go out for drinks, the cost is a factor in how much we drink. That factor was removed from the equation for her. Chris was getting her free drinks and encouraging her. His intent is obvious here. That's not to say she doesn't have responsibility.

Cost has nothing to do with the accusation and I'm sure he can more than afford what's required to get this woman drunk. If he truly is the predator in this case then I think it's safe to say that money would not be an issue.

Oh, I'm sure cost wasn't an issue for him. I meant cost from her perspective. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Had she gone to a bar on her own dime, it's probable that would be a limiting factor in how much she drank. It's one thing to spend $20-30 at a bar. It's another to spend $100.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 16:22:
And if this had just been a single incident, nothing would have happened. But Chris was the instigator here. He took specific actions with an intent for a certain outcome. He's done this so many times that he's been banned from some conventions. It's a pattern, and even if it's not technically illegal, it's super-creepy, and well within a company's right to terminate business with him. Which is exactly what happened.

I understand why he was terminated and when you look at the big picture he completely deserved it. He's creepy, predatory, and bad for business. My point is that the person this article is the focus of has a really weak story and she shouldn't be the one with the stand out story that gets him called out on a larger scale. Heck, there's even mention in the article of others that encountered much worse interactions with him. They are the ones that should be in the spotlight, not Karissa from the article. Her lame-ass story is not going to convince someone who's out of the loop that Avellone is a bad guy. The article should be about his pattern of behavior, not her questionable recollection of two adults being dumb.
I agree that she's not completely blameless, and that on a spectrum his actions could have been much worse, but I'm going to put most of the fault for the interaction here on his shoulders. He got her drunk and tried to take advantage. I don't think many would dispute that.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
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23.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 6, 2020, 11:27
23.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 6, 2020, 11:27
Jul 6, 2020, 11:27
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 16:22:
When you or I go out for drinks, the cost is a factor in how much we drink. That factor was removed from the equation for her. Chris was getting her free drinks and encouraging her. His intent is obvious here. That's not to say she doesn't have responsibility.

Cost has nothing to do with the accusation and I'm sure he can more than afford what's required to get this woman drunk. If he truly is the predator in this case then I think it's safe to say that money would not be an issue.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 16:22:
And if this had just been a single incident, nothing would have happened. But Chris was the instigator here. He took specific actions with an intent for a certain outcome. He's done this so many times that he's been banned from some conventions. It's a pattern, and even if it's not technically illegal, it's super-creepy, and well within a company's right to terminate business with him. Which is exactly what happened.

I understand why he was terminated and when you look at the big picture he completely deserved it. He's creepy, predatory, and bad for business. My point is that the person this article is the focus of has a really weak story and she shouldn't be the one with the stand out story that gets him called out on a larger scale. Heck, there's even mention in the article of others that encountered much worse interactions with him. They are the ones that should be in the spotlight, not Karissa from the article. Her lame-ass story is not going to convince someone who's out of the loop that Avellone is a bad guy. The article should be about his pattern of behavior, not her questionable recollection of two adults being dumb.
22.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 22:49
22.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 22:49
Jul 5, 2020, 22:49
 
What middle aged sick bastard wants to fuck a sloppy drunk passed out woman? Oh I already answered this myself. Zero fun or reward, just shame. I' would by far rather rub one out. Hard to believe Chris has to be that desperate.

This comment was edited on Jul 5, 2020, 23:13.
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21.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 17:02
21.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 17:02
Jul 5, 2020, 17:02
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 16:28:
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 16:22:
It's brave of her to come out and smart that she didn't release her last name lest even more mouth breathing misogynistic incels would ooze out of the woodwork and threaten her more than they already have.

Predatory males will no longer be allowed or tolerated in the workplace and that is a huge advance for the human race as a whole.

Yeah I agree, this kind of behavior is absolutely despicable.
I'm just glad that these victims of a male dominated workforce and society are no longer forced to stay silent and can confront their harassers.

The MeToo movement will be the best thing to come out of the 21st Century.

A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test. It's a compassion test. It's a decency test. It's a social responsibility test.
Cover Your Eyes for even more protection.
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20.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 16:36
Beamer
 
20.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 16:36
Jul 5, 2020, 16:36
 Beamer
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 16:19:
Cases like this prove me right of staying silent on them.
Of course our local cancel culture boys cant.

And yet here you are, breaking your silence by patting yourself on the back about how silent you're being.
19.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 16:22
19.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 16:22
Jul 5, 2020, 16:22
 
D-Rock wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 09:52:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 21:02:
1) Chris was plying her with free drinks on his company dime, so cost as a limiting factor was not present.
2) He was plying her with Midori sours, a drink of strong flavors that masks the alcohol so you're unaware of how strong the drink is or how much alcohol you're consuming.

Both are weak points that would not enhance the article or further support your argument.

1) She chose to drink what he gave her. She even said "I drink very quickly when I'm thirsty". Yeah...so does every other human being on the planet. Except most of them are not morons and drink WATER instead of alcohol.
When you or I go out for drinks, the cost is a factor in how much we drink. That factor was removed from the equation for her. Chris was getting her free drinks and encouraging her. His intent is obvious here. That's not to say she doesn't have responsibility.

2) Midori sour is not a strong drink.
Reading comprehension fail. I never said it's a strong drink, but one with strong flavors that masks the alcohol. Both Midori and sour mix have a ton of sugar in them. Whether the drinks were strong or not is irrelevant if she drank enough of them.

He's a creep, she's an idiot, and they are both adults. Bad decisions were made by both of them that night. When she asked him to stop, HE STOPPED. This was not assault -- he was just a creep who couldn't read the room and she is using the current political climate for her 15 minutes of fame. The fact that she takes no responsibility for any of the stupid decisions made that night speaks volumes about her maturity level and does nothing to bolster any arguments against toxic and unsafe environments in the workplace. Her heart is in the right place but even if he does have a reputation of questionable behavior her story is not the one to tell to put him in his place.
Her bad decisions are obvious, and no one said he raped her. And if this had just been a single incident, nothing would have happened. But Chris was the instigator here. He took specific actions with an intent for a certain outcome. He's done this so many times that he's been banned from some conventions. It's a pattern, and even if it's not technically illegal, it's super-creepy, and well within a company's right to terminate business with him. Which is exactly what happened.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
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18.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 16:19
18.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 16:19
Jul 5, 2020, 16:19
 
Cases like this prove me right of staying silent on them.
Of course our local cancel culture boys cant.
I have given up on waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
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17.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 15:53
Beamer
 
17.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 15:53
Jul 5, 2020, 15:53
 Beamer
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 12:54:
D-Rock wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 09:52:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 21:02:
1) Chris was plying her with free drinks on his company dime, so cost as a limiting factor was not present.
2) He was plying her with Midori sours, a drink of strong flavors that masks the alcohol so you're unaware of how strong the drink is or how much alcohol you're consuming.

Both are weak points that would not enhance the article or further support your argument.

1) She chose to drink what he gave her. She even said "I drink very quickly when I'm thirsty". Yeah...so does every other human being on the planet. Except most of them are not morons and drink WATER instead of alcohol.
2) Midori sour is not a strong drink.

He's a creep, she's an idiot, and they are both adults. Bad decisions were made by both of them that night. When she asked him to stop, HE STOPPED. This was not assault -- he was just a creep who couldn't read the room and she is using the current political climate for her 15 minutes of fame. The fact that she takes no responsibility for any of the stupid decisions made that night speaks volumes about her maturity level and does nothing to bolster any arguments against toxic and unsafe environments in the workplace. Her heart is in the right place but even if he does have a reputation of questionable behavior her story is not the one to tell to put him in his place.

That's exactly it. It's bad judgement all around couple with a lot of booze. That's a mistake not rape. And of course she's not taking any responsibility for her part in all of this. Didn't have to drink, didn't have to be there, chose to get blackout and drunk and stay. A guy gets handsy because he's bombed too and reads the signals wrong - maybe - she says no, and it's over. And this molehill is a mountain because? Oh right, crime is now what liberals say it is. Everyone else just calls that human nature and stupidity but liberals feel that men alone should be blamed. Huh, guess it only takes one to tango.

Oh, it's a crime? He was arrested?
16.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 12:54
Cutter
 
16.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 12:54
Jul 5, 2020, 12:54
 Cutter
 
D-Rock wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 09:52:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 21:02:
1) Chris was plying her with free drinks on his company dime, so cost as a limiting factor was not present.
2) He was plying her with Midori sours, a drink of strong flavors that masks the alcohol so you're unaware of how strong the drink is or how much alcohol you're consuming.

Both are weak points that would not enhance the article or further support your argument.

1) She chose to drink what he gave her. She even said "I drink very quickly when I'm thirsty". Yeah...so does every other human being on the planet. Except most of them are not morons and drink WATER instead of alcohol.
2) Midori sour is not a strong drink.

He's a creep, she's an idiot, and they are both adults. Bad decisions were made by both of them that night. When she asked him to stop, HE STOPPED. This was not assault -- he was just a creep who couldn't read the room and she is using the current political climate for her 15 minutes of fame. The fact that she takes no responsibility for any of the stupid decisions made that night speaks volumes about her maturity level and does nothing to bolster any arguments against toxic and unsafe environments in the workplace. Her heart is in the right place but even if he does have a reputation of questionable behavior her story is not the one to tell to put him in his place.

That's exactly it. It's bad judgement all around couple with a lot of booze. That's a mistake not rape. And of course she's not taking any responsibility for her part in all of this. Didn't have to drink, didn't have to be there, chose to get blackout and drunk and stay. A guy gets handsy because he's bombed too and reads the signals wrong - maybe - she says no, and it's over. And this molehill is a mountain because? Oh right, crime is now what liberals say it is. Everyone else just calls that human nature and stupidity but liberals feel that men alone should be blamed. Huh, guess it only takes one to tango.
"If you're going through Hell...keep going."
- Winston Churchill
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15.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 09:59
15.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 09:59
Jul 5, 2020, 09:59
 
Pr()ZaC wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 08:54:
There's always the other side of the coin and you won't know what really happened there. Unless there's hard evidence... Is there?

There are no reliable witnesses here and no security footage so no, there is no evidence at all.

She admitted to being "black out" drunk so there's no telling how much she actually remembered. The two friends that were with them also stepped away like most decent people do while in the presence of PDAs so they can't be considered witnesses either.
14.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 09:52
14.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 09:52
Jul 5, 2020, 09:52
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 21:02:
1) Chris was plying her with free drinks on his company dime, so cost as a limiting factor was not present.
2) He was plying her with Midori sours, a drink of strong flavors that masks the alcohol so you're unaware of how strong the drink is or how much alcohol you're consuming.

Both are weak points that would not enhance the article or further support your argument.

1) She chose to drink what he gave her. She even said "I drink very quickly when I'm thirsty". Yeah...so does every other human being on the planet. Except most of them are not morons and drink WATER instead of alcohol.
2) Midori sour is not a strong drink.

He's a creep, she's an idiot, and they are both adults. Bad decisions were made by both of them that night. When she asked him to stop, HE STOPPED. This was not assault -- he was just a creep who couldn't read the room and she is using the current political climate for her 15 minutes of fame. The fact that she takes no responsibility for any of the stupid decisions made that night speaks volumes about her maturity level and does nothing to bolster any arguments against toxic and unsafe environments in the workplace. Her heart is in the right place but even if he does have a reputation of questionable behavior her story is not the one to tell to put him in his place.
13.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 09:24
Beamer
 
13.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 09:24
Jul 5, 2020, 09:24
 Beamer
 
Perhaps we should consider that what happens at a "typical hotel bar near closing" isn't acceptable, particularly when someone is on company time, as Chris would have been at Conventions.
12.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 08:54
12.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 08:54
Jul 5, 2020, 08:54
 
intermarer wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 05:44:
I'm with Walt. This whole things sounds ridiculous.
There's always the other side of the coin and you won't know what really happened there. Unless there's hard evidence... Is there?
11.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 07:38
11.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 07:38
Jul 5, 2020, 07:38
 
before it became profitable to cancel , this is just a man failing at advances.
so the next time any company hires women, makes sure she's securely married first. ( still gets the diversity quota and tax relief/grant checked off, but with reduced incentive for lonely men to advance on woman romantically )
10.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 05:44
10.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 05:44
Jul 5, 2020, 05:44
 
I'm with Walt. This whole things sounds ridiculous.
9.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 03:54
9.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 03:54
Jul 5, 2020, 03:54
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 21:02:
noman wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 20:15:
She had friends who witnessed the attack and helped her in piecing up what happened. Then there's the nonsensical tweet exchange. Not sure why WaltC is getting so offended by these reports.

I feel sad when reading these things come to light. I was always a big fan of Chris Avellone, but yes few years away from industry will probably do good for him. Hope he turns his life around.
Some of these people either have an irrational fear of being wrongly accused (1%-2% of sexual harassment claims), or they don't like the idea of having to give up the ability to hit on women that aren't interested in them in a workplace setting. Walt obviously didn't read the entire article, or willfully ignored that part in order to make a strawman argument. Also, that article left out a couple of important facts:
1) Chris was plying her with free drinks on his company dime, so cost as a limiting factor was not present.
2) He was plying her with Midori sours, a drink of strong flavors that masks the alcohol so you're unaware of how strong the drink is or how much alcohol you're consuming.
Regardless of the exact circumstances of this particular incident, Chris' behavior is a pattern.

What's missing about a lot of these "worries" about wrongful accusations is that reducing harassment across the industry also reduces the number of false claims. If there is almost no harassment happening, the ones that do happen get greater scrutiny, make it more perilous to make a fake claim.

This scenario reads like the typical crap you can witness any given night at a busy hotel bar near last call.

As described by her, the events occurred in the conspicuous presence of her friends, was initially permitted, and he obeyed her rejection. I don't see the criminality. The main difference between what happened, and what would be considered ok, is whether or not she regretted or liked the encounter.


Regarding 1&2 :

1)
Plenty of companies provide 'go out on our dime' benefits.
I have a buddy that even went to bora bora on the company dime (all above board). He's away on travel 3 weeks out of every month, and his boss makes it worth his time. His boss is like 'here's a card, have fun'.

2)
The primary give away of a strong drink, is the alcohol vapor that chokes you when you breathe. Flavor isn't going to mask anything 'strong'.

Plenty of people hit up bars to hook up on the regular. There's a massive population of folks in the 21-39 ish age bracket where that's their entire idea of diversion. It's not an unusual behavior pattern.


"You miss every shot you don't take". Ultimately, as living creatures, trying to mate is a normal natural imperative - which involves negotiating with some other party.
The real issue (for him) is that he needs to be better at divining the other party's interest in him - failed attempts risk an upset. Fail enough times, you are guaranteed for an upset.

The work aspect is going to beat you over the head when you fail. When you succeed, nobody minds. Work is where a large portion of people meet their long term partner (assuming they didn't in school, or by associations), so while it's often officially unpermitted (CYA), it's practically permitted almost universally. In any case, he took the risk, and how he'll get beaten over the head with it.

-scheherazade

This comment was edited on Jul 5, 2020, 04:05.
8.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 03:44
8.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 03:44
Jul 5, 2020, 03:44
 
GothicWizard wrote on Jul 5, 2020, 00:01:
Cutter wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 15:52:
Diversity seems to incur more problems than its worth. Maybe we're better off just sticking with and working with our own as much as possible. And even though they won't publicly acknowledge that you can see where most business people would agree with that. There's simply too much risk and downside with it.

Or men should learn, and parents teach their boys, not to rape or sexually assault others? Yea let's try that fucking plan kiddo.

Don’t dismiss Cutters idea straight away. It’s got some merits; we should work with our own.

His mistake is how he’s dividing the world! Instead of isolating by gender or ethnicity, we can divide the world into creepy, racist misogynistic assholes and everyone else.

Then the rest of us can get on with life and ship the assholes to an island in the mid Atlantic where they will never have to be bothered by anyone not exactly like them.
7.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 5, 2020, 00:01
7.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 5, 2020, 00:01
Jul 5, 2020, 00:01
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 15:52:
Diversity seems to incur more problems than its worth. Maybe we're better off just sticking with and working with our own as much as possible. And even though they won't publicly acknowledge that you can see where most business people would agree with that. There's simply too much risk and downside with it.

Or men should learn, and parents teach their boys, not to rape or sexually assault others? Yea let's try that fucking plan kiddo.
6.
 
Re: Saturday Interviews
Jul 4, 2020, 21:02
6.
Re: Saturday Interviews Jul 4, 2020, 21:02
Jul 4, 2020, 21:02
 
noman wrote on Jul 4, 2020, 20:15:
She had friends who witnessed the attack and helped her in piecing up what happened. Then there's the nonsensical tweet exchange. Not sure why WaltC is getting so offended by these reports.

I feel sad when reading these things come to light. I was always a big fan of Chris Avellone, but yes few years away from industry will probably do good for him. Hope he turns his life around.
Some of these people either have an irrational fear of being wrongly accused (1%-2% of sexual harassment claims), or they don't like the idea of having to give up the ability to hit on women that aren't interested in them in a workplace setting. Walt obviously didn't read the entire article, or willfully ignored that part in order to make a strawman argument. Also, that article left out a couple of important facts:
1) Chris was plying her with free drinks on his company dime, so cost as a limiting factor was not present.
2) He was plying her with Midori sours, a drink of strong flavors that masks the alcohol so you're unaware of how strong the drink is or how much alcohol you're consuming.
Regardless of the exact circumstances of this particular incident, Chris' behavior is a pattern.

What's missing about a lot of these "worries" about wrongful accusations is that reducing harassment across the industry also reduces the number of false claims. If there is almost no harassment happening, the ones that do happen get greater scrutiny, make it more perilous to make a fake claim.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
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