Dev wrote on Jul 3, 2020, 15:16:

RedEye9 wrote on Jul 3, 2020, 00:10:
I wouldn't be surprised by that high of a percentage. Gamers were early adopters into Windows 10. one because it was free and two because it had the amazing direct x 12.
Worldwide Windows market share puts 10 over 73% on the desktop.

Nice, thanks for that link. So 15% more win10 adoption rate for PC gamers is not a surprising figure compared to overall desktop market currently.

I would not go with those numbers as gospel either. When you start searching for windows 10 adoption rates you get about four different sites throwing four different sets of numbers and I just picked the first site, I didn’t look at all of them.
But that combined with Steams iffy statistics And windows 7 end-of-life, it at least puts it in the ballpark.

RedEye9 wrote on Jul 3, 2020, 00:10:
I wouldn't be surprised by that high of a percentage. Gamers were early adopters into Windows 10. one because it was free and two because it had the amazing direct x 12.
Worldwide Windows market share puts 10 over 73% on the desktop.

Nice, thanks for that link. So 15% more win10 adoption rate for PC gamers is not a surprising figure compared to overall desktop market currently.

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 23:59:

Dev wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 16:16:

jdreyer wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:27:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:07:
I'm new to these surveys and don't know anyone who participates. Is there anyway to see how many people are in the survey? Steam has about 100 million users, but I'm guessing this isnt anywhere near a good average. Most recent info I've seen was win10 had reached about 50% saturation, but mainly due to ipads and notebooks. Neither of which will be able to run Cyberpunk 2077, afaik. Then again, I rarely pay attention to anything win10 related, so I'm sure to be behind the times.

Statistics work in such a way that a representative sample can be within a few percentage points of a distribution, regardless of size. So a few hundred users can tell us the DX distribution for all 100M users, + or - 2%.

They used to have info like that, not sure they do anymore, but as jdreyer says, it's not needed (assuming it's a truly random sampling). It is fresh info too, they do at least fresh surveys yearly. Nowdays it's opt in and they only get your info if you allow them.

I believe when you speak of ipads you are speaking of global PC market. This is the global pc GAMING market. So it's different. Mac OS is only 3.5% of steam customers. Linux is under 1%. Also windows 10 penetration among PC gamers is up to 87%, quite a different situation among gamers than among tablets/laptops/PCs together. All the statistics I mentioned in the previous post were already including Mac and Linux.

I don't really see it as a representative or random, since most people don't participate, afaik. I was hoping to see the data and don't mind being corrected by it. But yeah, I don't pay attention any more. If it's true there's 87% win10 usage in PC, I'm completely shocked.

I wouldn't be surprised by that high of a percentage. Gamers were early adopters into Windows 10. one because it was free and two because it had the amazing direct x 12.
Worldwide Windows market share puts 10 over 73% on the desktop.

Dev wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 16:16:

jdreyer wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:27:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:07:
I'm new to these surveys and don't know anyone who participates. Is there anyway to see how many people are in the survey? Steam has about 100 million users, but I'm guessing this isnt anywhere near a good average. Most recent info I've seen was win10 had reached about 50% saturation, but mainly due to ipads and notebooks. Neither of which will be able to run Cyberpunk 2077, afaik. Then again, I rarely pay attention to anything win10 related, so I'm sure to be behind the times.

Statistics work in such a way that a representative sample can be within a few percentage points of a distribution, regardless of size. So a few hundred users can tell us the DX distribution for all 100M users, + or - 2%.

They used to have info like that, not sure they do anymore, but as jdreyer says, it's not needed (assuming it's a truly random sampling). It is fresh info too, they do at least fresh surveys yearly. Nowdays it's opt in and they only get your info if you allow them.

I believe when you speak of ipads you are speaking of global PC market. This is the global pc GAMING market. So it's different. Mac OS is only 3.5% of steam customers. Linux is under 1%. Also windows 10 penetration among PC gamers is up to 87%, quite a different situation among gamers than among tablets/laptops/PCs together. All the statistics I mentioned in the previous post were already including Mac and Linux.

I don't really see it as a representative or random, since most people don't participate, afaik. I was hoping to see the data and don't mind being corrected by it. But yeah, I don't pay attention any more. If it's true there's 87% win10 usage in PC, I'm completely shocked.

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 17:55:

OpticNerve wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 16:19:

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:25:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:14:

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 02:52:
On the GTX 1070Ti DX12 works but feels unstable. My gut feeling always has me select DX11 over 12 based on past experiences.

No wall-running, DX12 only, no playable female protagonist... What other strange news will we get right before the finish line?

Wtf, is this about removing the female protagonist, got a link? Damn, if true it really pisses me off. I can't imagine CD Projekt Red would try to charge extra for a female protagonist but I would rather pay extra than not have the option.

Edit: NM, I see the rest of the thread on Female Protagonist.

Haha oops! That was a joke I planned to come back on about an hour after I initially posted it just to see some reactions, but I forgot xD Sorry folks, hehe

You're actually sort of right. I did read an interview with one of the devs last night since I wanted to verify your statement and they said that there wouldn't be a binary male or female character selection but that you're just "V" and can pick different body (and voice?) options.

Given that one of the major themes of Cyberpunk 2077 is being able to modify yourself in the future since you're not limited by what you're born with/as, this decision by the devs made sense to me. It's probably going to stir up a bit of controversy once the game is released.though.

Hehe that's pretty cool and well thought out by them. I did always like the different dialogue options depending on playing a male or female (shocker right, usual suspects? What a fucking misogynist I am, and fuck me I probably hate transgenders too!) but the decision and reasoning makes sense to me as well. I'll probably just play a dude (I know, the monster I am) with a small Italian penis.

That'll probably be replaced with the origin stuff in CP2077 since I'm guessing that Nomad origin characters are going to be treated like outside trash by certain NPCs whereas a player who picked the Corporate origin will be treated differently by those same NPCs. It works out fine for me since certain studios are kind of a hit or miss when it comes to writing female-centric dialog in their games so it's probably for the best (and I would imagine a lot less work for CDPR).

OpticNerve wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 16:19:

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:25:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:14:

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 02:52:
On the GTX 1070Ti DX12 works but feels unstable. My gut feeling always has me select DX11 over 12 based on past experiences.

No wall-running, DX12 only, no playable female protagonist... What other strange news will we get right before the finish line?

Wtf, is this about removing the female protagonist, got a link? Damn, if true it really pisses me off. I can't imagine CD Projekt Red would try to charge extra for a female protagonist but I would rather pay extra than not have the option.

Edit: NM, I see the rest of the thread on Female Protagonist.

Haha oops! That was a joke I planned to come back on about an hour after I initially posted it just to see some reactions, but I forgot xD Sorry folks, hehe

You're actually sort of right. I did read an interview with one of the devs last night since I wanted to verify your statement and they said that there wouldn't be a binary male or female character selection but that you're just "V" and can pick different body (and voice?) options.

Given that one of the major themes of Cyberpunk 2077 is being able to modify yourself in the future since you're not limited by what you're born with/as, this decision by the devs made sense to me. It's probably going to stir up a bit of controversy once the game is released.though.

Hehe that's pretty cool and well thought out by them. I did always like the different dialogue options depending on playing a male or female (shocker right, usual suspects? What a fucking misogynist I am, and fuck me I probably hate transgenders too!) but the decision and reasoning makes sense to me as well. I'll probably just play a dude (I know, the monster I am) with a small Italian penis.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:22:
Maybe that's part of the reason for the delay: to give extra time to get the drivers stable.

This is that chicken/egg thing, are the drivers unstable? There are DX12 only games, I think I've had more issues with games that tacked it on.

OpticNerve wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 16:19:
Given that one of the major themes of Cyberpunk 2077 is being able to modify yourself in the future since you're not limited by what you're born with/as, this decision by the devs made sense to me. It's probably going to stir up a bit of controversy once the game is released.though.

Just having a naked peen on display for choosing is probably going to be controversial (aka full frontal nudity) all on its own. Plus the explicit sex scenes. And if those offend some people... maybe they shouldn't play an adult title like this or the witcher where stuff like that is featured.

It actually makes sense for this title, you are modding your body, so why can't you pick your organs?

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:25:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:14:

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 02:52:
On the GTX 1070Ti DX12 works but feels unstable. My gut feeling always has me select DX11 over 12 based on past experiences.

No wall-running, DX12 only, no playable female protagonist... What other strange news will we get right before the finish line?

Wtf, is this about removing the female protagonist, got a link? Damn, if true it really pisses me off. I can't imagine CD Projekt Red would try to charge extra for a female protagonist but I would rather pay extra than not have the option.

Edit: NM, I see the rest of the thread on Female Protagonist.

Haha oops! That was a joke I planned to come back on about an hour after I initially posted it just to see some reactions, but I forgot xD Sorry folks, hehe

You're actually sort of right. I did read an interview with one of the devs last night since I wanted to verify your statement and they said that there wouldn't be a binary male or female character selection but that you're just "V" and can pick different body (and voice?) options.

Given that one of the major themes of Cyberpunk 2077 is being able to modify yourself in the future since you're not limited by what you're born with/as, this decision by the devs made sense to me. It's probably going to stir up a bit of controversy once the game is released.though.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:27:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:07:
I'm new to these surveys and don't know anyone who participates. Is there anyway to see how many people are in the survey? Steam has about 100 million users, but I'm guessing this isnt anywhere near a good average. Most recent info I've seen was win10 had reached about 50% saturation, but mainly due to ipads and notebooks. Neither of which will be able to run Cyberpunk 2077, afaik. Then again, I rarely pay attention to anything win10 related, so I'm sure to be behind the times.

Statistics work in such a way that a representative sample can be within a few percentage points of a distribution, regardless of size. So a few hundred users can tell us the DX distribution for all 100M users, + or - 2%.

They used to have info like that, not sure they do anymore, but as jdreyer says, it's not needed (assuming it's a truly random sampling). It is fresh info too, they do at least fresh surveys yearly. Nowdays it's opt in and they only get your info if you allow them.

I believe when you speak of ipads you are speaking of global PC market. This is the global pc GAMING market. So it's different. Mac OS is only 3.5% of steam customers. Linux is under 1%. Also windows 10 penetration among PC gamers is up to 87%, quite a different situation among gamers than among tablets/laptops/PCs together. All the statistics I mentioned in the previous post were already including Mac and Linux.

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 15:07:

Dev wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 12:06:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:17:
Yeah, can't believe they didn't just make it DX11. It would have allowed them to gain 50% more customers, than locking it with DX12.

Incorrect
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
It's only about 10% of average PC gamers who could have played this by supporting DX11 (the other 6% are still running EOL windows 7 and are capable of directx 12 because of MS's weird decision to port that near EOL). And another 2% of that total have the GPU but are running windows 8 and could support DX12 with just a FREE software update, because yes, you can still get windows 10 free if you have 8.

Being able to skip extensive development, Q&A, and testing on DX11 and windows 8, probably saves them a lot of time and money. And for the less than 5% of average gamers who don't have DX12 capable hardware, I'm ok with that. Keep in mind that even Fermi has support for DX12, and nvidia 400 Fermi series goes back over 10 years. If someone hasn't updated their graphics card in over 10 years, maybe it's time to ask for that for this cutting edge game

To give a console analogy, if this game were supporting PS5 and PS4 on release, this request is like asking for PS3 support, while claiming it's half of the market.

I'm new to these surveys and don't know anyone who participates. Is there anyway to see how many people are in the survey? Steam has about 100 million users, but I'm guessing this isnt anywhere near a good average. Most recent info I've seen was win10 had reached about 50% saturation, but mainly due to ipads and notebooks. Neither of which will be able to run Cyberpunk 2077, afaik. Then again, I rarely pay attention to anything win10 related, so I'm sure to be behind the times.

Statistics work in such a way that a representative sample can be within a few percentage points of a distribution, regardless of size. So a few hundred users can tell us the DX distribution for all 100M users, + or - 2%.

Tom wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 10:38:
DX12 stability will depend on how many GPU/driver/OS combinations they test, how motivated and capable they are to fix problems, and their relationships with GPU vendors.

DX12 is extremely low-level and demanding of those who use it. It means the application developer has to take on most of the work normally left to GPU drivers. This includes things like low level details of supporting different generations of GPUs from the same vendor. The claim that it will "work absolutely fine with all DX12-compatible GPUs" is a bold one.

Maybe that's part of the reason for the delay: to give extra time to get the drivers stable.

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 02:52:
On the GTX 1070Ti DX12 works but feels unstable. My gut feeling always has me select DX11 over 12 based on past experiences.

No wall-running, DX12 only, no playable female protagonist... What other strange news will we get right before the finish line?

No offline play. Must be connected to the internet.

/s

Dev wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 12:06:

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:17:
Yeah, can't believe they didn't just make it DX11. It would have allowed them to gain 50% more customers, than locking it with DX12.

Incorrect
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
It's only about 10% of average PC gamers who could have played this by supporting DX11 (the other 6% are still running EOL windows 7 and are capable of directx 12 because of MS's weird decision to port that near EOL). And another 2% of that total have the GPU but are running windows 8 and could support DX12 with just a FREE software update, because yes, you can still get windows 10 free if you have 8.

Being able to skip extensive development, Q&A, and testing on DX11 and windows 8, probably saves them a lot of time and money. And for the less than 5% of average gamers who don't have DX12 capable hardware, I'm ok with that. Keep in mind that even Fermi has support for DX12, and nvidia 400 Fermi series goes back over 10 years. If someone hasn't updated their graphics card in over 10 years, maybe it's time to ask for that for this cutting edge game

To give a console analogy, if this game were supporting PS5 and PS4 on release, this request is like asking for PS3 support, while claiming it's half of the market.

I'm new to these surveys and don't know anyone who participates. Is there anyway to see how many people are in the survey? Steam has about 100 million users, but I'm guessing this isnt anywhere near a good average. Most recent info I've seen was win10 had reached about 50% saturation, but mainly due to ipads and notebooks. Neither of which will be able to run Cyberpunk 2077, afaik. Then again, I rarely pay attention to anything win10 related, so I'm sure to be behind the times.

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:17:
Yeah, can't believe they didn't just make it DX11. It would have allowed them to gain 50% more customers, than locking it with DX12.

Incorrect
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
It's only about 10% of average PC gamers who could have played this by supporting DX11 (the other 6% are still running EOL windows 7 and are capable of directx 12 because of MS's weird decision to port that near EOL). And another 2% of that total have the GPU but are running windows 8 and could support DX12 with just a FREE software update, because yes, you can still get windows 10 free if you have 8.

Being able to skip extensive development, Q&A, and testing on DX11 and windows 8, probably saves them a lot of time and money. And for the less than 5% of average gamers who don't have DX12 capable hardware, I'm ok with that. Keep in mind that even Fermi has support for DX12, and nvidia 400 Fermi series goes back over 10 years. If someone hasn't updated their graphics card in over 10 years, maybe it's time to ask for that for this cutting edge game

To give a console analogy, if this game were supporting PS5 and PS4 on release, this request is like asking for PS3 support, while claiming it's half of the market.

This comment was edited on Jul 2, 2020, 12:24.

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 02:52:
On the GTX 1070Ti DX12 works but feels unstable. My gut feeling always has me select DX11 over 12 based on past experiences.

First I agree, but I always assumed that was more of a specific game thing. In general yes I've had better luck with DX11 when a game has both options, but again just assumed that was the games code.

Pr()ZaC wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 07:03:
Why buy a new key when your 7/8/8.1 ones are still good for a free upgrade to Windows 10?

?? I thought they got rid of that whole thing, guess I'll search a bit.

*EDIT* Apparently you are correct, I thought that program expired in like 2018 or something, but here is an article from a few days ago saying it still works.

Acleacius wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 11:14:

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 02:52:
On the GTX 1070Ti DX12 works but feels unstable. My gut feeling always has me select DX11 over 12 based on past experiences.

No wall-running, DX12 only, no playable female protagonist... What other strange news will we get right before the finish line?

Wtf, is this about removing the female protagonist, got a link? Damn, if true it really pisses me off. I can't imagine CD Projekt Red would try to charge extra for a female protagonist but I would rather pay extra than not have the option.

Edit: NM, I see the rest of the thread on Female Protagonist.

Haha oops! That was a joke I planned to come back on about an hour after I initially posted it just to see some reactions, but I forgot xD Sorry folks, hehe

Steele Johnson wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 09:40:
So many games that I've tried with dx12 crash, but when I switch to dx11, no crash. It will be interesting to see how this plays out for everyone.

Yeah, can't believe they didn't just make it DX11. It would have allowed them to gain 50% more customers, than locking it with DX12.

Quinn wrote on Jul 2, 2020, 02:52:
On the GTX 1070Ti DX12 works but feels unstable. My gut feeling always has me select DX11 over 12 based on past experiences.

No wall-running, DX12 only, no playable female protagonist... What other strange news will we get right before the finish line?

Wtf, is this about removing the female protagonist, got a link? Damn, if true it really pisses me off. I can't imagine CD Projekt Red would try to charge extra for a female protagonist but I would rather pay extra than not have the option.

Edit: NM, I see the rest of the thread on Female Protagonist.