Forza Bans the Confederate Flag

A tweet from Forza Support has word that the Confederate flag is no longer allowed in Forza games, as it has been added to the list of "notorious iconography" that Turn 10 does not allow in the racing series (thanks Eurogamer.net). Word is: "Our goal is to create a safe, secure, inclusive, and enjoyable experience for all players. Moving forward, the use of the Confederate flag on any car and under any circumstances will be categorized as a 'Notorious iconography' in our enforcement guidelines and its use will result in a ban." Here's the list of notorious iconography from the Forza Enforcement Guidelines they specify is not allowed in their games:
Certain notorious iconography, including but not limited to:

  • Swastikas
  • Confederate Flag
  • SS-runes
  • Wolfsangel
  • Black Sun
  • Arrow Cross
  • Iron Cross (with contextual clues)
  • Rising Sun

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83 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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83.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 30, 2020, 21:29
83.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 30, 2020, 21:29
Jun 30, 2020, 21:29
 
Hey guys. Wow I haven't been following this thread, but it sure has a lot of posts! So what's going on?
*reads the 3 most recent posts*

Ok well, I'll just go back to my gaming news. Have fun.
(literally what just happened)
Avatar 36713
82.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 30, 2020, 06:20
82.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 30, 2020, 06:20
Jun 30, 2020, 06:20
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 04:47:
Jedi Master wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 10:46:
The gov't can't refuse to give someone a driver's license because they are gay, but a bakery can refuse to make them a wedding cake. If that bakery loses customers but decides it would rather do that than bake a cake for gays, it can.

Actually, that cake company can't. Gays (and blacks and women and handicapped people and Jews, etc.) are part of protected classes. And service cannot be refused on the basis of being a protected class by law. Although in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, the "religious exemption" won, this was due to the Colorado Civil Right Commission denigrating the religion in their reasoning for dinging the cakeshop. The "Protected Classes" laws still stands, and as long as local courts and commissions treat religions neutrally, they'll still be able to go after businesses that refuse service to protected classes.

That whole thing struck me as kind of a weird thing. They wanted a wedding cake baked, which the baker denied due to his religion, but offered to still sell them other goods, which they didn't want, and they left.
So which "Protected Class" would take priority in that instance? Because Religion is also protected in that list, and you can't really force someone to create art.
Avatar 22954
81.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 17:03
81.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 17:03
Jun 29, 2020, 17:03
 
MattyC wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 03:36:
Squirrel-things that use their scrotum as a crude type of parachute, all of which I am sure the internet will gladly show you.

Yeah those are Tanookis, Mario 3 has a Tanooki suit in the game as a power-up. Thankfully without the giant scrotum, but it does have the ability to fly and gently land.

Bodolza wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 01:34:
You do realize that American's don't have much say in the policies of foreign countries, right? Like this would be impossible to actually do. You get that right?

He only understands that when it's in his interest to understand it--otherwise it's just "librul hypocrisy". Also, Forza is not a nation, or the government, it can only control its policies and what it places and its products--and is doing so. Although this is understood, it will be overlooked when convenient.

Grast wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 19:50:
If common people could sue these sites for the perceived lies, mis-statements, and fabrications which they allow while removing other content, The issue of free speech on these platforms would go away because all speech would be permitted. This means that speech which you would spend your entire life arguing against would have a voice. It also means that people would be able to hear that voice and decide for themselves. Bad ideas in the closet grow. Bad ideas in the open are allowed to die and wither.

I find it funny that you believe that if more people could, and did, sue companies for "publishing" (which they would be liable for if the safe harbor protections are removed) false information, lies, slander, defamation, etc it would lead to less moderation and censorship and not more.

EDIT: "perceived" lies are not the same thing as lies. Lies involve facts and while you can argue over what is factual or not, it doesn't change what is actually true. It's factual to say that The Sun is the name of our system's star. It is not factual to say that all stars are suns.

This comment was edited on Jun 29, 2020, 17:18.
Say what you will, at least Camacho recognized he should listen to experts.
Avatar 58887
80.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 05:16
80.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 05:16
Jun 29, 2020, 05:16
 
MattyC wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 03:36:
jdreyer wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 14:45:
WaltC wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 11:25:
People who are easily offended and favor the banning of ideas and symbols should realize that bans actually serve to make that which is banned more attractive--not less attractive. It's the forbidden fruit syndrome--and it's human nature. Bans often create more curiosity and interest as opposed to less.
As I mentioned in post 59, Japanese attempts to censor full frontal nudity resulted in the very kind of deviant representations it was designed to prevent. Law of unintended consequences.

Dash wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 01:08:
Dev wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 23:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:24:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:12:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:05:
Let me get this straight.. SS runes were not banned before this?
What would make you think that?

Oh, just that the US wrote it into law to ban it in Germans laws... you know, way back when...
Sorta kinda like US pressured Japan about indecency laws after the war that carry over today in their blurring out of genitals in media including porn... and in the USA we never got any laws like that

And that's how we got tentacle porn.

I don't know why people think that. Japanese erotic art has a long, colorful, and OH MY EYES WHERE IS THE BEACH WHY WHY IS THERE NO BLEACH? history that greatly predates WWII. The US did try to get all puritanical, but that was way after freaky freaky stuff with cephalopods was well established. The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife (WARNING that is just the Wikipedia entry, but like... Urk ) is a relatively well known one from the early 1800s and it is hardly the first.

There is plenty more tentacle monsters, goatse demons, hairy female reproductive spirit eyes, squirrel-things that use their scrotum as a crude type of parachute, all of which I am sure the internet will gladly show you. However, you will have to make that dark journey on your own...

TLDR: Yeah, the US tried. They knew not with what forces they meddled! Plus, when you are dealing with a country that already has a giant public penis festival, adding some blur to their smut was only ever deluding yourself.

Yes, but Fisherman's Wife is by far the exception, not the rule in ukiyoe. The vast majority were heterosexual interactions (NSFW) of various types. It wasn't until regular sexual depictions were censored that deviance really took off. And it goes far beyond tentacles. I recall my first visit to a Japanese magazine shop back in the 90s. There was no separation between regular mags and porn. I was looking at gaming mags, and in looking for any in English turn around to find an entire shelf of mags of girls pooping. Yes, an entire shelf. Why? Because anuses (anusi?) are not required to be censored in Japan, unlike other genitalia. As a result, this fetish grew very popular because of the lack of censorship. Likewise ejaculate is not censored, thus bukkake was born. These two things are among the most un-sexy things to me personally, but the origin is obvious.

And yes, I've been to Kanayama Shrine, and it's awesome. Also, Japan is hardly the only country to have a penis festival.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
79.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 04:54
79.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 04:54
Jun 29, 2020, 04:54
 
Bodolza wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 01:34:
ventry wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 20:06:
Watch the lefty authoritarians dance past, side step and backflip by this one with all the grace of an Olympic Gymnast.
That's quite the giant straw man you've created there. Who helped you build that? Now let's watch as the vast majority of lefties say that they are not okay with slavery and indentured servitude anywhere by any government. I'll start. I'm not okay with slavery or indentured servitude by any government. Graceful enough for you?

You didn't address the flag banning part so, yeah very gracefully dodged.

They were built by slaves ya know.
Bodolza wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 01:34:
Actually, they weren't, but thanks for proving my point about the level of knowledge on display here.

History.com says probably but, Fair enough.
!!!!DANGER!!!!
You are being conditioned to view your freedom as "selfish".
78.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 04:47
78.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 04:47
Jun 29, 2020, 04:47
 
Jedi Master wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 10:46:
The gov't can't refuse to give someone a driver's license because they are gay, but a bakery can refuse to make them a wedding cake. If that bakery loses customers but decides it would rather do that than bake a cake for gays, it can.

Actually, that cake company can't. Gays (and blacks and women and handicapped people and Jews, etc.) are part of protected classes. And service cannot be refused on the basis of being a protected class by law. Although in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, the "religious exemption" won, this was due to the Colorado Civil Right Commission denigrating the religion in their reasoning for dinging the cakeshop. The "Protected Classes" laws still stands, and as long as local courts and commissions treat religions neutrally, they'll still be able to go after businesses that refuse service to protected classes.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
77.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 04:42
77.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 04:42
Jun 29, 2020, 04:42
 
Dash wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 01:08:
Dev wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 23:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:24:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:12:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:05:
Let me get this straight.. SS runes were not banned before this?
What would make you think that?

Oh, just that the US wrote it into law to ban it in Germans laws... you know, way back when...
Sorta kinda like US pressured Japan about indecency laws after the war that carry over today in their blurring out of genitals in media including porn... and in the USA we never got any laws like that

And that's how we got tentacle porn.

Law of unintended consequences. By banning the display of normal sexual interaction, the law created multiple deviant interactions that skirted the law.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
76.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 03:36
76.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 03:36
Jun 29, 2020, 03:36
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 14:45:
WaltC wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 11:25:
People who are easily offended and favor the banning of ideas and symbols should realize that bans actually serve to make that which is banned more attractive--not less attractive. It's the forbidden fruit syndrome--and it's human nature. Bans often create more curiosity and interest as opposed to less.
As I mentioned in post 59, Japanese attempts to censor full frontal nudity resulted in the very kind of deviant representations it was designed to prevent. Law of unintended consequences.

Dash wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 01:08:
Dev wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 23:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:24:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:12:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:05:
Let me get this straight.. SS runes were not banned before this?
What would make you think that?

Oh, just that the US wrote it into law to ban it in Germans laws... you know, way back when...
Sorta kinda like US pressured Japan about indecency laws after the war that carry over today in their blurring out of genitals in media including porn... and in the USA we never got any laws like that

And that's how we got tentacle porn.

I don't know why people think that. Japanese erotic art has a long, colorful, and OH MY EYES WHERE IS THE BEACH WHY WHY IS THERE NO BLEACH? history that greatly predates WWII. The US did try to get all puritanical, but that was way after freaky freaky stuff with cephalopods was well established. The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife (WARNING that is just the Wikipedia entry, but like... Urk ) is a relatively well known one from the early 1800s and it is hardly the first.

There is plenty more tentacle monsters, goatse demons, hairy female reproductive spirit eyes, squirrel-things that use their scrotum as a crude type of parachute, all of which I am sure the internet will gladly show you. However, you will have to make that dark journey on your own...

TLDR: Yeah, the US tried. They knew not with what forces they meddled! Plus, when you are dealing with a country that already has a giant public penis festival, adding some blur to their smut was only ever deluding yourself.
I'm like the man who single-handedly built the rocket and went to the moon. What was his name? Apollo Creed?
Avatar 39012
75.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 01:34
75.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 01:34
Jun 29, 2020, 01:34
 
There's so much dumb here I don't know where to start, but I'll try.

Grast wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 19:33:
Since Forza is banning flags now. Lets start by banning ever flag in Africa and the entire Middle East
You do realize that American's don't have much say in the policies of foreign countries, right? Like this would be impossible to actually do. You get that right?

Everyone of these countries allow and support Slavery and Indentured Servitude TODAY. How about concentrating on countries which are actively allowing the presence and acceptable practice of Slavery!
You know it's possible to actually do more than one thing at a time, right? People can both affect change in their local government while at the same time not supporting the policies of foreign goverments. These aren't mutually exclusive objective or thoughts. Do you understand that?

ventry wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 20:06:
Watch the lefty authoritarians dance past, side step and backflip by this one with all the grace of an Olympic Gymnast.
That's quite the giant straw man you've created there. Who helped you build that? Now let's watch as the vast majority of lefties say that they are not okay with slavery and indentured servitude anywhere by any government. I'll start. I'm not okay with slavery or indentured servitude by any government. Graceful enough for you?

They were built by slaves ya know.
Actually, they weren't, but thanks for proving my point about the level of knowledge on display here.
74.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 01:25
74.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 01:25
Jun 29, 2020, 01:25
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 11:45:
WaltC wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 11:25:
People who are easily offended and favor the banning of ideas and symbols should realize that bans actually serve to make that which is banned more attractive--not less attractive. It's the forbidden fruit syndrome--and it's human nature. Bans often create more curiosity and interest as opposed to less.

If you become a Nazi because a video game didn't let you role play a Nazi, you were absolutely going to become a Nazi, anyway.

Don't think that's the point WaltC was trying to make.
A better example might be in music, for bands such as KISS. When they came out, loads of Christian Fundies started proclaiming it was 'Devil music', and should be banned for their theatrics, that their name meant 'Knights in Satan's Service', etc.. And KISS themselves really didn't come out to say anything otherwise, cuz Simmons knew it would sell. They protested Black Sabbath and Ozzy Ozzbourne, and they became known as one of the founding Metal bands after people started listening to them. Or the whole 'Parental Advisory' sticker in the 80s when rap and hard rock was blossoming out. Sales for most albums that had that sticker went up.

People will be curious about things deemed forbidden by others. All the context is necessary for them to understand why it was deemed as such.

If someone plays a game where you are in the role of a Nazi [which I think at this point, the only ones are multiplayer PVP games, really], and you end up becoming one, I doubt it was the game that gave that final validating push. I mean, hell, didn't we already have that whole schtick purported before?
Avatar 22954
73.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 01:08
73.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 01:08
Jun 29, 2020, 01:08
 
Dev wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 23:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:24:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:12:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 15:05:
Let me get this straight.. SS runes were not banned before this?
What would make you think that?

Oh, just that the US wrote it into law to ban it in Germans laws... you know, way back when...
Sorta kinda like US pressured Japan about indecency laws after the war that carry over today in their blurring out of genitals in media including porn... and in the USA we never got any laws like that

And that's how we got tentacle porn.
Avatar 22954
72.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 29, 2020, 00:51
72.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 29, 2020, 00:51
Jun 29, 2020, 00:51
 
jdreyer wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 14:39:
Laws regulating speech are way behind the technological curve. Social media especially is damaging our democracy (not to mention our mental health) and is still essentially unregulated at this point. That's how the Russians and others were able to exploit it during the 2016 election. It's how we get anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers: humans are hard wired for tribalism, even if that tribe's beliefs are wrong and unhealthy.

Yes. Yes. Yes.
Avatar 17232
71.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 21:11
71.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 21:11
Jun 28, 2020, 21:11
 
Sepharo wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 21:03:
It's a corporation ya weirdos.
You're being too kind.
A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test.
It's a compassion test.
It's a decency test.
It's a social responsibility test.
Avatar 58135
70.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 21:03
70.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 21:03
Jun 28, 2020, 21:03
 
It's a corporation ya weirdos. They do everything in the interest of money.
If ya really want them to ban "every flag in Africa", then go ahead and find like minded people and threaten their bottom line.
Good luck.
Avatar 17249
69.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 20:06
69.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 20:06
Jun 28, 2020, 20:06
 
Grast wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 19:33:
Since Forza is banning flags now. Lets start by banning ever flag in Africa and the entire Middle East, Everyone of these countries allow and support Slavery and Indentured Servitude TODAY. How about concentrating on countries which are actively allowing the presence and acceptable practice of Slavery!

Later..

BOOOOOOM!!!!
We have a winner!!

Watch the lefty authoritarians dance past, side step and backflip by this one with all the grace of an Olympic Gymnast.

The double standards of the left shine through again.

p.s
(ok Bodolza : Probably inaccurate removed (acc. history.com))

This comment was edited on Jun 29, 2020, 04:48.
!!!!DANGER!!!!
You are being conditioned to view your freedom as "selfish".
68.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 19:59
68.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 19:59
Jun 28, 2020, 19:59
 
WOOT

Mississippi House and Senate VOTE TO REMOVE Confederate icon from state flag

Mississippi Legislature votes to remove Confederate icon from state flag (only took 155 years to decide...at that rate, how long until black girls can go jogging, safely, in MS municipal parks?)

At least some folks are trying to Make America Better Again
#MABA
Not to be confused with maga (Morons Are Governing Amerikkka)

A mask is not a political statement.
It's an IQ test.
It's a compassion test.
It's a decency test.
It's a social responsibility test.
Avatar 58135
67.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 19:50
67.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 19:50
Jun 28, 2020, 19:50
 
You are a 100% correct. The 1st Amendment has nothing to do with censorship on Facebook, Twitter, or Youtube. It has more do to with liability. Currently all of these companies have immunity from Liability damages due to 47 U.S. Code Section 206. IMHO, this is where we diverge. None of these companies are acting as publisher. A publisher only provides a service to host the content and does not curate, modify, or approve the content. In my opinion, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube are acting as a editor. These companies are deciding which content is available via an editorial process similar if not exactly like a news papers. As such, it is my hope that section 206 is amended to state if these companies continue to act as an editor and not a publisher, they could held liable for the content on their sites.

If common people could sue these sites for the perceived lies, mis-statements, and fabrications which they allow while removing other content, The issue of free speech on these platforms would go away because all speech would be permitted. This means that speech which you would spend your entire life arguing against would have a voice. It also means that people would be able to hear that voice and decide for themselves. Bad ideas in the closet grow. Bad ideas in the open are allowed to die and wither.

In summary, you are right the 1st Amendment has nothing to do with Free speech online. But at the same time, these companies should be held liable if they purposefully editorialize their content.

Later...
66.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 19:33
66.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 19:33
Jun 28, 2020, 19:33
 
Since Forza is banning flags now. Lets start by banning ever flag in Africa and the entire Middle East, Everyone of these countries allow and support Slavery and Indentured Servitude TODAY. How about concentrating on countries which are actively allowing the presence and acceptable practice of Slavery!

Later..
65.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 16:30
65.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 16:30
Jun 28, 2020, 16:30
 
Muscular Beaver wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 14:33:
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 14:17:
ColoradoHoudini wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 14:07:
Did they also get rid of commie signs like BLM?
Interesting that you’d mention Black Lives Matter and equate human lives with communism.
Let me school you. Black Lives Matter does not mean Only Black Lives Matter but instead Black Lives Matter Also.
You can thank me later.
Let me school you:
https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1274336621702373377
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

They tipped their hand when "abolish" started to get thrown around. Anyone shouting in the streets to completely remove a pillar of societal structure is closer to an anarchist than anything else.
64.
 
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag
Jun 28, 2020, 15:17
64.
Re: Forza Bans the Confederate Flag Jun 28, 2020, 15:17
Jun 28, 2020, 15:17
 
Jedi Master wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 10:46:
The gov't can't refuse to give someone a driver's license because they are gay, but a bakery can refuse to make them a wedding cake. If that bakery loses customers but decides it would rather do that than bake a cake for gays, it can.

The First says the gov't can't tell FB "you're not allowed to post that." It does NOT say it can tell FB "you have to allow people to post that." It is a restriction on powers, not an expansion of them. All of the Bill of Rights, the first 10, are like that. Many of the later ones DO grant powers, such as the ones for Prohibition or income tax, but not those.

The bakery example may not be entirely true. The Commerce Clause says that public facing businesses must treat people equally. Whether that includes gay or trans people or not is currently in debate. Like you can't sell goods or items to whites at one price, and to blacks for a different price. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

Also, if a business can not (can refuse to) serve you because you're gay, what's to stop them from serving you because you're the wrong flavor of Christian? Or because you're from Norway? Or because you're Latino?

VaranDragon wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 08:22:
That "fire" example is a pretty good one. I wonder if intentionally spreading fake news, or just plain lies if you like, that directly or indirectly leads to human harm can be restricted in that way as well. I think that it probably should be.

I agree that spreading fake news should be prevented, but I don't know if that would be a Constitutional thing or just a legislative thing (probably the latter).

This comment was edited on Jun 28, 2020, 15:29.
Say what you will, at least Camacho recognized he should listen to experts.
Avatar 58887
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