Quinn wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 10:07:

jdreyer wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 04:13:

Quinn wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 13:19:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 12:05:
You are hired to do a job.
What part of “You’re not being paid to find a fuck buddy,” don’t you understand.

You should get an award for taking zero effort to understand where the other side is coming from.

In my world, a potential "partner" doesn't translate to "fuck buddy". You must be a lonely single. I met my partner at work and we have a 1,5 year old kid now. I know first hand the beautiful things that can come from social contact with others without having a regime hanging over you telling you want you can or can't do which isn't criminal. That you and your buddies are not willing to see this is frustrating. There is no having a civil discussion here, what with people like you constantly at the fucking ready with your endless supply of strawmen and vitriol.

It's certainly doable, but it's extremely tricky. Most men I've observed can't handle it. They can't recognize when a girl isn't into them. Then there's trouble. As a result, most companies these days are instituting a zero tolerance policy. And we can see from this chart that the traditional ways of meeting your mate are going by the way side in favor of meeting online (the only exception being bar/restaurant).

You observed the opposite of what I have observed, though. Most of the times I've seen guys try, the women were straightforward if they wanted nothing of it and the men respectful. Maybe it's a Dutch thing? Or maybe the gaming development industry is indeed the problem, with the stereotypical geeks having no clue how to behave toward women because they grew up in their basement? It's possible.

I'll admit that my observations are from 10 years ago or so. I worked from home for several years starting around 2008, and at my current job (in the office for the past 4 years) I observe almost none of it. Most of the workers are family men and women, who might go out with the team for a drink occasionally, but mostly go home. They're not hitting on women, and the women at work aren't hitting on them. The younger ones all meet people online or at bars, not at work. There are a bunch of married people who work at the same company, but they either met decades ago, or they were already married when they started working there. As you say, could be a gaming/IT thing too, as that's been the industry I've worked in the past 20 years. Introverted people are naturally drawn to tech work.

Btw, is "Meeting through Slack / Zoom / Skype" when it's work-related considered "Online" or "At work"? :P

LOL.

jdreyer wrote on Jun 29, 2020, 04:13:

Quinn wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 13:19:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 12:05:
You are hired to do a job.
What part of “You’re not being paid to find a fuck buddy,” don’t you understand.

You should get an award for taking zero effort to understand where the other side is coming from.

In my world, a potential "partner" doesn't translate to "fuck buddy". You must be a lonely single. I met my partner at work and we have a 1,5 year old kid now. I know first hand the beautiful things that can come from social contact with others without having a regime hanging over you telling you want you can or can't do which isn't criminal. That you and your buddies are not willing to see this is frustrating. There is no having a civil discussion here, what with people like you constantly at the fucking ready with your endless supply of strawmen and vitriol.

It's certainly doable, but it's extremely tricky. Most men I've observed can't handle it. They can't recognize when a girl isn't into them. Then there's trouble. As a result, most companies these days are instituting a zero tolerance policy. And we can see from this chart that the traditional ways of meeting your mate are going by the way side in favor of meeting online (the only exception being bar/restaurant).

You observed the opposite of what I have observed, though. Most of the times I've seen guys try, the women were straightforward if they wanted nothing of it and the men respectful. Maybe it's a Dutch thing? Or maybe the gaming development industry is indeed the problem, with the stereotypical geeks having no clue how to behave toward women because they grew up in their basement? It's possible.

Btw, is "Meeting through Slack / Zoom / Skype" when it's work-related considered "Online" or "At work"?

Quinn wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 13:19:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 12:05:
You are hired to do a job.
What part of “You’re not being paid to find a fuck buddy,” don’t you understand.

You should get an award for taking zero effort to understand where the other side is coming from.

In my world, a potential "partner" doesn't translate to "fuck buddy". You must be a lonely single. I met my partner at work and we have a 1,5 year old kid now. I know first hand the beautiful things that can come from social contact with others without having a regime hanging over you telling you want you can or can't do which isn't criminal. That you and your buddies are not willing to see this is frustrating. There is no having a civil discussion here, what with people like you constantly at the fucking ready with your endless supply of strawmen and vitriol.

It's certainly doable, but it's extremely tricky. Most men I've observed can't handle it. They can't recognize when a girl isn't into them. Then there's trouble. As a result, most companies these days are instituting a zero tolerance policy. And we can see from this chart that the traditional ways of meeting your mate are going by the way side in favor of meeting online (the only exception being bar/restaurant).

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 28, 2020, 12:05:
You are hired to do a job.
What part of “You’re not being paid to find a fuck buddy,” don’t you understand.

You should get an award for taking zero effort to understand where the other side is coming from.

In my world, a potential "partner" doesn't translate to "fuck buddy". You must be a lonely single. I met my partner at work and we have a 1,5 year old kid now. I know first hand the beautiful things that can come from social contact with others without having a regime hanging over you telling you want you can or can't do which isn't criminal. That you and your buddies are not willing to see this is frustrating. There is no having a civil discussion here, what with people like you constantly at the fucking ready with your endless supply of strawmen and vitriol.

You are hired to do a job.
What part of “You’re not being paid to find a fuck buddy,” don’t you understand.

HorrorScope wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 17:33:

Quinn wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 16:45:
Looking forward to the first "no flirting allowed" signs. Bunch of fucking drones we humans will become, afraid to interact with eachother socially. Many people see colleagues more than their partners and other family members, with 8 or more work hours a day, 5 times a week. Is it OK to give compliments during after-work drinks facilitated by the company? If so, is it allowed to recall the fine evening the next day or does that go too far?

"Unwanted flirting", wtf does that even mean? I envy Sepharo the Mind-reader, who only ever flirted with women who wanted his advances.

Funny I've been dealing with coworkers for 30 years, 15 of them in office and a lot of chit chat all day long, never had a problem keeping it on the up and up. People in business typically show their better sides because they have to get along and be proper for fear of losing their jobs. I guess I just don't find it all that hard, don't go to work looking to pick people up was a good rule then, is still a good rule now. Don't take advantage of your position. Don't think you can play your porno fantasies out at work, even if you do or try, you know you are playing a dangerous game.

That last part of your comment is a bit extreme, don't you think? It's a flimsy strawman ad highly unnecessary to put up. My point was that people who see eachother for about 40 hours a week might start to see in someone a potential partner. Why do some of us want to live in a world where exploring that potential has a risk of getting you fired?

Quinn wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 16:45:
Looking forward to the first "no flirting allowed" signs. Bunch of fucking drones we humans will become, afraid to interact with eachother socially. Many people see colleagues more than their partners and other family members, with 8 or more work hours a day, 5 times a week. Is it OK to give compliments during after-work drinks facilitated by the company? If so, is it allowed to recall the fine evening the next day or does that go too far?

"Unwanted flirting", wtf does that even mean? I envy Sepharo the Mind-reader, who only ever flirted with women who wanted his advances.

Funny I've been dealing with coworkers for 30 years, 15 of them in office and a lot of chit chat all day long, never had a problem keeping it on the up and up. People in business typically show their better sides because they have to get along and be proper for fear of losing their jobs. I guess I just don't find it all that hard, don't go to work looking to pick people up was a good rule then, is still a good rule now. Don't take advantage of your position. Don't think you can play your porno fantasies out at work, even if you do or try, you know you are playing a dangerous game.

Quinn wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 14:02:
You are talking about a form of "guilty" that is becoming old school. We covered this earlier, when people myself included mentioned the assault on due process. The mere accusation can be the killing blow for someone's career. That damage is done, however, and is not due to workerspace reform but due to the cancel culture that is on the rise. What, after all, is due process really good for if you are already expelled from your clan by its stupid, tribal members prone to drawing their own conclusions exempt from any charity?

Well I'm not in the game industry but these things do happen in my line of work. Due process there isn't canning anyone first, in fact everyone keeps work and an investigation takes place. Perhaps there are some cases they've had that they've been put on admin leave, but that would tell me then they have already uncovered things that warrant that. I don't know, I still feel in most cases if we knew everything, that many that were investigated had reasonable logic in how they were carrier out. That said, perhaps game companies aren't as professional, I don't know.

Quinn wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 16:45:
Looking forward to the first "no flirting allowed" signs. Bunch of fucking drones we humans will become, afraid to interact with eachother socially. Many people see colleagues more than their partners and other family members, with 8 or more work hours a day, 5 times a week. Is it OK to give compliments during after-work drinks facilitated by the company? If so, is it allowed to recall the fine evening the next day or does that go too far?

"Unwanted flirting", wtf does that even mean? I envy Sepharo the Mind-reader, who only ever flirted with women who wanted his advances.

Yeah no "advances" with co-workers, especially at work, is a good idea.

Sepharo wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 16:20:
People, men and women, should be able to go to work without being the target of unwanted flirting.
So radical.

What do you mean. I’m a MALE, all women, or men for that matter, should welcome any form of attention I decide to offer them.
I think there is even a book on “parenting, bad real estate deals and rules on what not to eat” that agrees with me. Let me just dig around in my $1540 MaxMara handbag to see if I have a copy.

Looking forward to the first "no flirting allowed" signs. Bunch of fucking drones we humans will become, afraid to interact with eachother socially. Many people see colleagues more than their partners and other family members, with 8 or more work hours a day, 5 times a week. Is it OK to give compliments during after-work drinks facilitated by the company? If so, is it allowed to recall the fine evening the next day or does that go too far?

"Unwanted flirting", wtf does that even mean? I envy Sepharo the Mind-reader, who only ever flirted with women who wanted his advances.

People, men and women, should be able to go to work without being the target of unwanted flirting.
So radical.

HorrorScope wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 12:33:

Dev wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 17:59:

Beamer wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 17:12:
How about we all just agree to be respectful to people? And if we aren't respectful to people we work with, we all agree that there will probably be consequences for our behavior?

I agree, because this is a societal thing, not a right or left thing. Plenty of examples on both sides of terrible people including in politics.

Right and Right. IMO we on the sideline should chill a little to. We don't really know the 1/2 of it, each is their own case and I would be dollars to donuts most will be handled the way they should with a fair'ish outcome. If men are being unfairly targeted there should be little to no evidence to prove them guilty.

You are talking about a form of "guilty" that is becoming old school. We covered this earlier, when people myself included mentioned the assault on due process. The mere accusation can be the killing blow for someone's career. That damage is done, however, and is not due to workerspace reform but due to the cancel culture that is on the rise. What, after all, is due process really good for if you are already expelled from your clan by its stupid, tribal members prone to drawing their own conclusions exempt from any charity?

Dev wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 17:59:

Beamer wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 17:12:
How about we all just agree to be respectful to people? And if we aren't respectful to people we work with, we all agree that there will probably be consequences for our behavior?

I agree, because this is a societal thing, not a right or left thing. Plenty of examples on both sides of terrible people including in politics.

Right and Right. IMO we on the sideline should chill a little to. We don't really know the 1/2 of it, each is their own case and I would be dollars to donuts most will be handled the way they should with a fair'ish outcome. If men are being unfairly targeted there should be little to no evidence to prove them guilty.

Didn't read it, but looks like a whole lot of strawmanning and the usual ad-homs that this time went too far. =) (couldn't add to the comment below because the forum thinks I am editing a deleted comment). Drunks at work should get in trouble for being drunk apart from being harassing assholes. People complimenting women on their makeup should get educated: a compliment on makeup tells a woman she did her makeup wrong -- every man versed in the ways of flattery should know that most women don't want you to see their makeup, they want you to believe they got out of bed like that. However, men should be allowed to make mistakes like that. Woman compliment me on my bright blue eyes (or well, they did.. now I've become chubby and older) and that's fine. If the Redeye & Beamer Gestapo becomes reality, women as well as men's heads will roll for bullshit reasons other than being friendly and social to people you see more than your own partners and family. If not, it would be highly hypocriti-- Oh wait... no shit it will be.

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 10:27:

Beamer wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 09:50:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 09:30:

Beamer wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 19:09:
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jun 26, 2020, 21:42.

it was spot on and got archived

As almost always, Vernon was the better person

True
And even though it violated forum rules it doesn't stop everyone from agreeing with what you posted.
A person should be able to go to work and not have to worry about whether the drunk in the next cubicle is going to ask them out for a drink or compliment their makeup.
Not to mention the rules against fraternization.

Didn't read it, but looks like a whole lot of strawmanning and the usual ad-homs that this time went too far. =)

Beamer wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 09:50:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 09:30:

Beamer wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 19:09:
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jun 26, 2020, 21:42.

it was spot on and got archived

As almost always, Vernon was the better person

True
And even though it violated forum rules it doesn't stop everyone from agreeing with what you posted.
A person should be able to go to work and not have to worry about whether the drunk in the next cubicle is going to ask them out for a drink or compliment their makeup.
Not to mention the rules against fraternization.

Verno wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 09:02:

WaltC wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 17:10:
If you say, "You look nice today, Pam," or you ask a female "Would you maybe like to go for a beer after work?"--neither of those is sexual harassment. It's certainly not being "unprofessional." It's called "being social." I don't really care how a female might "interpret" something like that--it doesn't matter to me. Why? Because no man is a mind reader...;) I not only don't know what she is thinking, I can't know what she's thinking--unless, of course, I ask her a question or engage her in polite conversation. If she says, "Get lost buster, ya' bother me!" it's easy enough to take the hint.

Actually either of those is enough to get you into a discussion with HR these days at a modern office if someone complains about it. You wouldn't be terminated if it's a first offense but you would certainly have a chat. And frankly they would have a right to, the fact that some women have been patient with your awkward advances or ill thought out "compliments" doesn't change that. Their appearance is not for you to judge out loud in a work environment, how presumptuous of you to even think that's somehow appropriate. Frankly I don't think you work in an office because your notions of office dynamics seem straight out of a rom-com. And if you did you would have some inkling of how important yet fragile a career is and that some things are not worth risking.

And again there are plenty of ways to meet women that do not involve work. Women are literally everywhere, if you're so chatty and confident I'm sure you will have no issue meeting one outside of the office. Get a hobby or failing that get a dating app. I get it, social responsibility with dating is mostly on men to take chances but a lot has changed in the past 20 years. And work is no longer a smart or "safe" spot to do it for a variety of reasons. Stuff has changed, adapt.

That this is the case in many companies doesn't mean it's progression. I think this is going in the opposite direction of what feminism fought and fights for. I don't want to have to tip-toe around women, colleagues or not. I compliment men and women both. For the last 10 years it has never been to flirt with women. I don't want the thought police arm of HR fuck me over some kind thing I said because the company doesn't care about collateral damage to their new age regime. Where I live, women and men already are protected against the real bullies and harassment. Thankfully, they aren't yet protected against friendly folk saying friendly things. Perhaps I am preaching to the choir? It is hard to tell.

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 09:30:

Beamer wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 19:09:
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jun 26, 2020, 21:42.

it was spot on and got archived

Awwww <3 =)

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 27, 2020, 09:30:

Beamer wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 19:09:
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jun 26, 2020, 21:42.

it was spot on and got archived

As almost always, Vernon was the better person

Beamer wrote on Jun 26, 2020, 19:09:
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jun 26, 2020, 21:42.

it was spot on and got archived