Kxmode wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:44:
MoreLuckThanSkill used "apparently" and "seem." Really now, people need to stop translating words like "apparently," "seem," and "indicating" into factual claims. We're all making guesses and posting opinions, so I think it's inappropriate to ask "what is wrong with you?" Please put down the pitchforks.

Even the IMPLICATION that because they were drinking that justifies it is WRONG. Period. So again, what the fuck is wrong with you for defending that?

WaltC wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 10:05:

Brynjolf wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

It's still relevant legally--but not of course in the kangaroo court of liberal politics, where only the accusation counts, and the only evidence needed is the accusation itself. Glad I grew up in a far more sane epoch...;) I even remember a time when you could tell a female an off-color joke and she'd laugh with you, imagine that--these days it's almost like complimenting a female or asking her out is some sort of "abuse"...;) Socially destructive madness.

"You could slap your secretary on the ass and she'd find it funny! These days, when you tell a woman that she's gained too much weight for you to date but you'd certainly give her a roll in the hay, she gets offended. When you tell a black man that your grandpappy used to own people like him, he gets angry. Why can't we go back to the good old days when white men could say and do whatever they wanted and everyone else had to laugh or else? We need to go back to that! Make America Great Again. For white people to not have to be polite or respectful, yet everyone else needs to towards us!"

She called him out, he admitted to the action. End of story. People have to remember that it's not easy for women to come forward because society has this way of making the victim feel like the criminal. So I'd think that the majority of women who push themselves to come forward are doing it to protect other women from the predator and not to purposely ruin someone's career (yes, I know the innocent until proven guilty thing). But let me repeat, it's really difficult for a woman to come forward with something like this, especially on a public forum. They feel shame, they feel like they'll be accused for instigating, they get death threats, etc. So it's not some easy action to purposely ridicule someone or destroy their career. You're putting your own life on the line when you come forward (and yes, I know there are some exceptions out there, but minuscule).

Also, it doesn't really matter how "good" you are at your skill. If you're a complete misogynistic, miscreant asshat, it cancels everything out, IMO. In my company, I'd walk the person out the door instantly without any regard to their worth.

And this year's election in the US is horrible. We have to choose between 2 pigs. One that's currently President and has 25 accusations since the 1970s (25 women came forward), and you have another asshat that has at least 8 accusations. So which one do you choose? Which misogynistic narcissist will you vote for?

Brynjolf wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

It's still relevant legally--but not of course in the kangaroo court of liberal politics, where only the accusation counts, and the only evidence needed is the accusation itself. Glad I grew up in a far more sane epoch...;) I even remember a time when you could tell a female an off-color joke and she'd laugh with you, imagine that--these days it's almost like complimenting a female or asking her out is some sort of "abuse"...;) Socially destructive madness.

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 08:11:

Brynjolf wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

he admitted guilt.

In the Court of Twitter.

Good lord, screed is right...

I don't think Karissa understands how Twitter is supposed to be used!

It doesn't matter what you had to drink, just that you got drunk and were taken advantage of. I guess brevity isn't for everyone.

I'm all about innocent until proven guilty but when you have a situation that falls into "Bill Cosby Syndrome" I can't help but believe the accuser 100%. I'm glad she found the courage to call it out and I wish there was some way justice could be served in this scenario.

Brynjolf wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Well he's not in a court for one thing. And he hasn't denied the accusations for another. And in the court of public opinion my thoughts are just as valid as your thoughts on the matter of guilt.

The thing is most of these cases are actually what you see is what you get. There is some odd thing that happens when talented people get into a position where they have a certain amount of power. They tend to want to dominate and control all those around them...like they are owed the allegiance and subservience of the women they work with. I'm sure its a mental illness and I'm sure it could have been stopped if someone had been firm and told this person to get some help before it got to those levels. But unfortunately, no one bothered to speak out about it. So here we are.

Brynjolf wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

he admitted guilt.

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Numinar wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 00:36:
Man, all my favorites are creeps. I'm sure lots of us have had akward moments with people we regret but this dosn't sound like that. Sure looks like a pattern of behaviour that would be intolerable to an employer, let alone the victims. Maybe it's not Bill Crosby levels but we are all somehwere on that spectrum of shittiness, interesting to see where it become defensible for some people.

My dream of building the ultimate Into the Breach fan site will probably have to stay up in my brain for now.

This is what gets me too. We all had some shit moments with the other gender, that is part of life, but if even half of the stories are true then Avellone was a full on sexual predator and not just a creep. He was apparently banned from a convention for pulling the "alcohol -> lure them on your room" stunt more than once. And we are talking underage visitors in the mix. This is clearly way beyond the lines of ethics and morality we should all hold up. There is no defending him either, alcohol abuse is no excuse in my book. It was his choice to get drunk.

Teddy wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 00:53:

Kxmode wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:39:

Beamer wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:29:

Kxmode wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:05:
It's important to note she used her Twitter account with over 2K followers as a podium to make career-destroying claims with no evidence. She also retweeted this in the past few hours indicating she doesn't care if what she says is true.

How, precisely, do you interpret that tweet?
Because you're not doing it correctly

She didn't author the post but chose to retweet it indicates she doesn't care what her comments about Chris do to his career. That's how I see it. But sure, I guess someone could interpret it another way. Do realize I used "indicating" in my OP, meaning I am NOT claiming that's what she intended. It is only a guess.

You do realize he's apologized and not denied anything, right? This isn't just 'claims with no evidence'. He provided the evidence himself.

On Twitter, you're guilty until proven innocent. That's an actual fact.

Mordhaus wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 02:36:
If only he was running against Trump in 2020, he could have gotten this brushed under the rug.

Haha. Sad, ain’t it?

jdreyer wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 00:29:

Icewind wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:30:
So we destroy a man's career over what some girl said in a twitter post. Sounds legit.

So if it's one v one, I might agree with you. But when multiple people start sharing similar stories, and the dude isn't even refuting, then where there's smoke, there's fire.

Fair enough.

I can't wait then for someone else to comment about Randy Pritchford's child playland he has in his basement where the kid's parents aren't allowed.

Mordhaus wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 02:36:
If only he was running against Trump in 2020, he could have gotten this brushed under the rug.

Well, it's a little bit of apples and oranges here. If there was only one story, and Avellone completely denied it, I'd probably take his side, depending on the details. This was the Biden situation. Instead, there were several stories from multiple sources about Avellone, and he basically admitted culpability. Don't worry, he's white, male, and middle aged. He'll be fine.

If only he was running against Trump in 2020, he could have gotten this brushed under the rug.

Beamer wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 00:04:
Except the number one reason women cite for not coming forward is fear of burning bridges and ruining their careers.

And, statistically, it's accurate. Women are often punished for this and then considered a risk to hire.

Going forward against a powerful man is considered career suicide. It's how Weinstein lasted decades.

It's how Mira Sorvino's career got stuffed down the toilet.

Red886 wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 01:35:
meetoo false accusers never get cancelled after.

Its all about getting a pay-off

Yup, all those women, the all just do it for the money. Every time they report a man, they get $1000. That's why they do it.
99.999% of the time men are perfectly behaved.

There are a couple hundred men on my floor. Due to my job, I know most of them. They never harass women, and they never get reported. Funny how that works. There was this one guy though. Was super awesome at his job, but used to yell at women, make comments. One day the police came and escorted that guy out. There's another guy who is also super awesome at his job. A real lynchpin. He's much more subtle about his harassment. Still works there, despite being a known problem and women who refuse to work with him.

But you know, it's all about the pay-off.

theglaze wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 00:16:
The real question is.... are we willing to lose Bieber over Twitter allegations?

Et tu, Bieber?

meetoo false accusers never get cancelled after.

Its all about getting a pay-off

Kxmode wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:39:

Beamer wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:29:

Kxmode wrote on Jun 22, 2020, 23:05:
It's important to note she used her Twitter account with over 2K followers as a podium to make career-destroying claims with no evidence. She also retweeted this in the past few hours indicating she doesn't care if what she says is true.

How, precisely, do you interpret that tweet?
Because you're not doing it correctly

She didn't author the post but chose to retweet it indicates she doesn't care what her comments about Chris do to his career. That's how I see it. But sure, I guess someone could interpret it another way. Do realize I used "indicating" in my OP, meaning I am NOT claiming that's what she intended. It is only a guess.

You do realize he's apologized and not denied anything, right? This isn't just 'claims with no evidence'. He provided the evidence himself.