Now that this thread has exceeded 100 comments, do we need to call Derek Smart and get his opinion?

jdreyer wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 15:24:

Numinar wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 00:36:

My dream of building the ultimate Into the Breach fan site will probably have to stay up in my brain for now.

Well, games comprised of the efforts of large teams. Avellone's contribution was fairly minor, IMO. The genius of that game lies with the gameplay designed by Ma and Davis. Baby/bathwater.

Of course, but the connection I feel to the characters in that all time top 5 game for me probably has a lot to do with Chris. They are not whole creations of his though, pretty sure I saw/read in interview that it was a collaborative effort.

And really it's how the minimal narrative links and works with the gameplay that makes it all work. I'm sure another contractor could have approximated it. Still, it makes me sad. Sad in a way I shouldn't be because I didn't get encouraged to get drunk and felt up by some creepy nerd which is the bigger problem here.

-

Yeah Beamer you got me. Big rapist here. Actually no. If you look at my posts you will see I am against rape and jokes about child rape like that pedo James Gunn made because my younger sister was raped and sexually abused as a child. And I see the lasting damage it has made on her life. When I posted I saw no information that Chris Avellone had raped someone. Just anonymous twitter accusations like the kind that ruin well respected careers. If he is a rapist then fuck him and throw him on the pile with all the rest.

Kxmode wrote on Jun 25, 2020, 03:28:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 21:55:
Chris Avellone did not lose his job because of a tweet, the metoo movement or any of the bizarre reasons those of you who come to his defense might think.

Justice has been served.

"Justice" has been served for the low, low price of just ONE tweet. A bar-gain.

It was more than one tweet, all this tells me is you didn't even look at what was said. It was 18 successive tweets, and his apology is essentially admission of guilt. While it may not be enough for a court, it's definitely enough for a company to decide they want nothing to do with him.

Sepharo wrote on Jun 25, 2020, 15:33:

Kxmode wrote on Jun 25, 2020, 03:35:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 24, 2020, 14:47:
If one thing is guaranteed it's that these threads bring out the easily triggered misogynists in droves, along with those that only read the title.

You're calling me a misogynist because I'm pointing out the burden of evidence has not been provided by the accuser. How can a person be condemned by less than 160 characters and no evidence?

Why do you think that post was targeting you?

Blanket generalizations.

Cutter wrote on Jun 24, 2020, 00:04:

Fantaz wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 21:34:
i think a lot of people in the game industry still living in their college years... after you graduate you don't keep living like you're in a frat, getting girls drunk and taking advantage of them. you just gotta find the right one and settle down, maybe have kids... Chris behavior is wrong he should be properly dating and get consent, life is not a game

And you know about his behavior first hand how? A lot of people? And you know this how? I actually worked in the industry professionally and while I can't say with any absolute certainty that the people I worked with were worse than Hitler or not, my strong belief is that most of them were not. All I can say is thank god I don't have you on a jury determining my fate. 'Well someone said he's guilty so he obviously must be or why would be here?' Derp!

lol

i do work in the industry tho

Kxmode wrote on Jun 25, 2020, 03:35:

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 24, 2020, 14:47:
If one thing is guaranteed it's that these threads bring out the easily triggered misogynists in droves, along with those that only read the title.

You're calling me a misogynist because I'm pointing out the burden of evidence has not been provided by the accuser. How can a person be condemned by less than 160 characters and no evidence?

Why do you think that post was targeting you?

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 24, 2020, 14:47:
If one thing is guaranteed it's that these threads bring out the easily triggered misogynists in droves, along with those that only read the title.

You're calling me a misogynist because I'm pointing out the burden of evidence has not been provided by the accuser. How can a person be condemned by less than 160 characters and no evidence?

RedEye9 wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 21:55:
Chris Avellone did not lose his job because of a tweet, the metoo movement or any of the bizarre reasons those of you who come to his defense might think.

Justice has been served.

"Justice" has been served for the low, low price of just ONE tweet. A bar-gain.

Not a false equivalency at all. If he was drunk, he was unable to consent to sex with her. That's the standard, right? Her charge against him is not that he raped her (in fact, she confirms there was no sex). Her charge is that he wanted to have sex with her while she was drunk. Unless wanting to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you is sexual assault, the crime he committed was to attempt to have sex with a drunk person (because her drunkenness prevented her from being able to consent). Well, he wasn't able to consent, either, right? He was drunk, correct? I find it very interesting that you would hold him to a different standard than you do her. Must be misogyny... obviously she can't be held to the same standard because she is a woman, right?

Intent matters. Plying someone with drinks on purpose with the express intent of getting them into a situation where they can't consent doesn't mean you can just have a few yourself and get off the hook. This doesn't sound like some isolated misunderstanding involving 2 simultaneously drunk people either.

People are having a rather interesting conversation in this thread, with multiple views on the matter. Then there's label-master Redeye who'd just love to send his Redeye Gestapo to your house if you don't agree to everything he believes. Luckily, his political power will reach no farther than the sympathy of his Bluesnews moderator lords. Too bad he has a few thousand hysterical clones on the loose, but thank God his ilk is known for eating their own. The problem will fix itself.

If one thing is guaranteed it's that these threads bring out the easily triggered misogynists in droves, along with those that only read the title.

GothicWizard wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 16:20:

Eirikrautha wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 12:50:

GothicWizard wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 10:56:
Even the IMPLICATION that because they were drinking that justifies it is WRONG. Period. So again, what the fuck is wrong with you for defending that?

Agreed. In fact, she admitted that he had been drinking heavily, too. Therefore, she is also guilty of inappropriate conduct with an intoxicated person. Right? Or does his intoxication not count? Are you suggesting that a man is responsible for his actions while drunk, but a woman is not? You're saying a woman is not capable of being as responsible as a man?

What's wrong with you?

If she tried to take advantage of him, under the influence or otherwise, and the only reason she didn't was she couldn't get him hard (equivalent of him only stopping because he realized she was on her period), then yes she is 100% in the wrong to. And I'd be shouting in his defense. However she wasn't trying to take advantage of him. So false equivalency.

Not a false equivalency at all. If he was drunk, he was unable to consent to sex with her. That's the standard, right? Her charge against him is not that he raped her (in fact, she confirms there was no sex). Her charge is that he wanted to have sex with her while she was drunk. Unless wanting to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you is sexual assault, the crime he committed was to attempt to have sex with a drunk person (because her drunkenness prevented her from being able to consent). Well, he wasn't able to consent, either, right? He was drunk, correct? I find it very interesting that you would hold him to a different standard than you do her. Must be misogyny... obviously she can't be held to the same standard because she is a woman, right?

Kxmode wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 21:27:

HorrorScope wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 12:05:

Quinn wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 11:44:
Due process starts to mean less and less.

That could be true, but also consider this, from our POV we really don't know shit. We have a report, I like to assume the company did investigate the claims as any company should then made a determination. We will only ever know a little and we don't even know how accurate. So as due process may seem to mean less, we are sitting behind a keyboard acting all Monday Morning QB ON EVERYTHING. We are as guilty as the media etc in things like this.

Precisely the point I am making. Justice becomes warped when it based on a guilty-upon-proven-innocent premise. Since she chose Twitter instead of a courtroom to hear her case, then the burden of proof is on her. Only "talking" about it isn't evidence.

In other words, if you brought her case before a judge with no evidence and proof, and based everything on hearsay, the judge would dismiss the case. The same should happen here.

That was my point as well. Not sure if MoreLuckThanSkill got that and reiterated it or thought I somehow applauded the pitchforks mentality.

Not talking about Chris' details atm, but what I find nauseating these days is how no agency is expected from the women -- by both the women and their pitchfork buddies. Personally, I have had sex while tipsy and even drunk, with the woman being as tipsy and even drunk. When the mood is right and from one thing comes another, that shouldn't be something to fear. I also had my mornings where we'd both wake up and be like "oh, shit.. we had sex, that'll be awkward", like the cliche movie scene. If that would happen in today's pitchfork culture, I would literally fear for my career and social life.

Women have agency. Every woman and women activist would preach the same preach. Which makes this #metoo movement in many cases highly hypocritical. Not in all cases, of course. I decided to add that last part, because this is the internet and civil discourse is near impossible unless you spell out the obvious. For good measure: RAPE. BAAAAD.

This comment was edited on Jun 24, 2020, 03:03.

Fantaz wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 21:34:
i think a lot of people in the game industry still living in their college years... after you graduate you don't keep living like you're in a frat, getting girls drunk and taking advantage of them. you just gotta find the right one and settle down, maybe have kids... Chris behavior is wrong he should be properly dating and get consent, life is not a game

And you know about his behavior first hand how? A lot of people? And you know this how? I actually worked in the industry professionally and while I can't say with any absolute certainty that the people I worked with were worse than Hitler or not, my strong belief is that most of them were not. All I can say is thank god I don't have you on a jury determining my fate. 'Well someone said he's guilty so he obviously must be or why would be here?' Derp!

Primalchrome wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 22:16:

Fantaz wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 21:34:
after you graduate you don't keep living like you're in a frat, getting girls drunk and taking advantage of them.

What....the....ever....loving....fuck?

Notice that too did you? Misogyny, toxic male entitlement and rape culture all rolled into one. Wow.

Fantaz wrote on Jun 23, 2020, 21:34:
after you graduate you don't keep living like you're in a frat, getting girls drunk and taking advantage of them.

What....the....ever....loving....fuck?

Chris Avellone did not lose his job because of a tweet, the metoo movement or any of the bizarre reasons those of you who come to his defense might think.

Justice has been served.

i think a lot of people in the game industry still living in their college years... after you graduate you don't keep living like you're in a frat, getting girls drunk and taking advantage of them. you just gotta find the right one and settle down, maybe have kids... Chris behavior is wrong he should be properly dating and get consent, life is not a game