Out of the Blue

Here's more from the engine room, as Frans has tracked down and addressed an issue with the search function here. A couple of different things were causing problems, but now that they are addressed, trying to search for news stories results in much more reliable and useful results. There are a couple of ways this may be further refined going forward, so further tweaks may follow. In the meantime this has made a drastic improvement.

Searchable Links
Thanks Ant and Neutronbeam.

Breakfast Links

Science

Media

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20.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 22, 2020, 20:33
20.
Re: Out of the Blue May 22, 2020, 20:33
May 22, 2020, 20:33
 
Verno wrote on May 21, 2020, 22:39:
Those articles are about high doses of Vitamin D which is not what jdreyer was talking about. He didn't make any claims about cures (you don't cure a virus) or that people should be doing anything other than getting their recommended daily amounts. Certain age groups and minorities are challenged in this regard, especially with shelter in place orders and there are some studies showing a correlation to various COVID-19 outcomes (your own link even mentions it). People should not run out and pop a bunch of supplements to prevent getting the virus. But it's interesting data that should be explored further, we know so little about the virus.

Thanks Vern. Yeah, just making sure you're not vitamin D insufficient is where the studies were showing strong correlation. Which you should be doing anyway to prevent things like depression and osteoporosis. And it doesn't even require supplements: just get 15m of sun three days per week (a bit more if you have dark skin). Here's a good article.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
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19.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 22:39
Verno
 
19.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 22:39
May 21, 2020, 22:39
 Verno
 
Those articles are about high doses of Vitamin D which is not what jdreyer was talking about. He didn't make any claims about cures (you don't cure a virus) or that people should be doing anything other than getting their recommended daily amounts. Certain age groups and minorities are challenged in this regard, especially with shelter in place orders and there are some studies showing a correlation to various COVID-19 outcomes (your own link even mentions it). People should not run out and pop a bunch of supplements to prevent getting the virus. But it's interesting data that should be explored further, we know so little about the virus.

Playing: Trials of Mana Remake, FF7R
Watching: Into the Light
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18.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 22:14
18.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 22:14
May 21, 2020, 22:14
 
Doctors Warn Taking High Doses of Vitamin D Has No Effect on COVID-19

High doses of vitamin D supplementation has no current benefit in preventing or treating Covid-19
"High-dose vitamin D supplementation has no current benefit in preventing or treating #COVID19" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-high-dose-vitamin-d-supplementation-current.html via
@medical_xpress
"Scientists believe that there is currently no firm link between #vitaminD intake and resistance to respiratory tract infections."
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
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17.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 19:04
17.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 19:04
May 21, 2020, 19:04
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on May 21, 2020, 18:53:
Thanks for the heads up, Frans and Blue. If I continue to see more wierdness, I will let you know.

Vitamin D* now eh?

Is collodial silver just around the bend for the next magic bullet cureall?

*At no point am I saying having a sufficient amount of vitamin D is a bad thing.
A local motel and its co-joined restaurant have posted the cure and prevention on their establishments doors.
They’ll never have to worry about me and several others from ever darkening their doorstep. Wink
bizarre times we live in
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
Avatar 58135
16.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 18:53
16.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 18:53
May 21, 2020, 18:53
 
Thanks for the heads up, Frans and Blue. If I continue to see more wierdness, I will let you know.

Vitamin D* now eh?

Is collodial silver just around the bend for the next magic bullet cureall?

*At no point am I saying having a sufficient amount of vitamin D is a bad thing.
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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15.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 17:02
15.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 17:02
May 21, 2020, 17:02
 
RedEye9 wrote on May 21, 2020, 16:48:
jdreyer wrote on May 21, 2020, 15:33:
Apparently, having low vitamin D is a very large risk factor for having a bad COVID-19 outcome.
Gonna give you 3 strikes on that.
1. This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed...
2. Joe Rogan on youtub
3. 20 people.
Other than that it's da bomb Diddy.
1) Yup, I qualified it.
2) Yes, but his guest was an actual Dr.
3) If 20 people isn't enough, how about 20 countries?

Background/Aims: WHO declared SARS-Cov-2 a global pandemic. The aims of this paper are to assess if there is any association between mean levels of vitamin D in various countries and cases respectively mortality caused by COVID-19.

Methods: We have identified the mean levels of vitamin D for 20 Europeans Countries for which we have also got the data regarding the morbidity and mortality caused by COVID-19.

Results: The mean level of vitamin D (average 56mmol/L, STDEV 10.61) in each country was strongly associated with the number of cases/1M (mean 295.95, STDEV 298.73 p=0.004, respectively with the mortality/1M (mean 5.96, STDEV 15.13, p < 0.00001).

Discussion: Vitamin D levels are severely low in the aging population especially in Spain, Italy and Switzerland. This is also the most vulnerable group of population for COVID-19.

Conclusions: We believe, that we can advise Vitamin D supplementation to protect against SARS-CoV2 infection.
Again, getting the right amount of vitamin D is something everyone should be doing already for health and longevity. There are no downsides to this, and the upsides seem pretty well correlated.
But up to you.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
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14.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 16:48
14.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 16:48
May 21, 2020, 16:48
 
jdreyer wrote on May 21, 2020, 15:33:
Apparently, having low vitamin D is a very large risk factor for having a bad COVID-19 outcome.
Gonna give you 3 strikes on that.
1. This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed...
2. Joe Rogan on youtub
3. 20 people.
Other than that it's da bomb Diddy.
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
Avatar 58135
13.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 16:45
13.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 16:45
May 21, 2020, 16:45
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on May 21, 2020, 16:06:
jdreyer wrote on May 21, 2020, 15:33:
Apparently, having low vitamin D is a very large risk factor for having a bad COVID-19 outcome. Here's one study for example:

Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI (vitamin D insufficiency) prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI. Coagulopathy was present in 62.5% of ICU COVID-19 patients, and 92.3% were lymphocytopenic. Conclusions: VDI is highly prevalent in severe COVID-19 patients. VDI and severe COVID-19 share numerous associations including hypertension, obesity, male sex, advanced age, concentration in northern climates, coagulopathy, and immune dysfunction. Thus, we suggest that prospective, randomized controlled studies of VDI in COVID-19 patients are warranted.
Get 15m of sun per day, or take a supplement. Vitamin D has lots of other health benefits, and there's almost no risk to supplementing the recommended amount.

The vitamin D deficiency / COVID-19 potential link is interesting, but keep in mind it's real, REAL early to be saying anything definitive about that. At this point, it's still a correlation vs causation question. At least the study you quoted is just saying that further studies are warranted.

Although people raiding stores for vitamin D pills is not nearly as bad as people buying up all the hydroxychloroquinine so Lupus patients can't get it.

It'll be interesting in 3-5 years when we get some real studies done about COVID-19. Hopefully it won't be completely buried in the news by then.
Yup, we won't hear about it. The news will be full of all the things happening in Trump's second term.

And while correlation isn't causation, when you've got 96% of ICU patients that are VDI, that's pretty compelling for a vitamin you should be getting the right amount of anyway for other reasons.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
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12.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 16:30
12.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 16:30
May 21, 2020, 16:30
 
Cutter wrote on May 21, 2020, 16:14:
Dairy. Milk and cheese. A healthy, tasty way to get all the D you ever need. That's what sustained our ancestors who didn't evolve in the sunbelt.

Milk only has significant levels of vitamin D because it's added in, which started in the 1930s.
11.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 16:28
11.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 16:28
May 21, 2020, 16:28
 
Cutter wrote on May 21, 2020, 16:14:
jdreyer wrote on May 21, 2020, 15:33:
Apparently, having low vitamin D is a very large risk factor for having a bad COVID-19 outcome. Here's one study for example:

Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI (vitamin D insufficiency) prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI. Coagulopathy was present in 62.5% of ICU COVID-19 patients, and 92.3% were lymphocytopenic. Conclusions: VDI is highly prevalent in severe COVID-19 patients. VDI and severe COVID-19 share numerous associations including hypertension, obesity, male sex, advanced age, concentration in northern climates, coagulopathy, and immune dysfunction. Thus, we suggest that prospective, randomized controlled studies of VDI in COVID-19 patients are warranted.

Get 15m of sun per day, or take a supplement. Vitamin D has lots of other health benefits, and there's almost no risk to supplementing the recommended amount.

Dairy. Milk and cheese. A healthy, tasty way to get all the D you ever need. That's what sustained our ancestors who didn't evolve in the sunbelt.

WRONG
DAIRY DOES NOT HAVE VITAMIN D
Milk does not naturally contain enough VD to sustain anyone.
Fortified milk, introduced in the thirties, is what you mean. And it, by no means, was around for our ancestors*** to benefit from.

***
ancestors
a person, typically one more remote than a grandparent, from whom one is descended.

“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
Avatar 58135
10.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 16:14
Cutter
 
10.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 16:14
May 21, 2020, 16:14
 Cutter
 
jdreyer wrote on May 21, 2020, 15:33:
Apparently, having low vitamin D is a very large risk factor for having a bad COVID-19 outcome. Here's one study for example:

Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI (vitamin D insufficiency) prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI. Coagulopathy was present in 62.5% of ICU COVID-19 patients, and 92.3% were lymphocytopenic. Conclusions: VDI is highly prevalent in severe COVID-19 patients. VDI and severe COVID-19 share numerous associations including hypertension, obesity, male sex, advanced age, concentration in northern climates, coagulopathy, and immune dysfunction. Thus, we suggest that prospective, randomized controlled studies of VDI in COVID-19 patients are warranted.

Get 15m of sun per day, or take a supplement. Vitamin D has lots of other health benefits, and there's almost no risk to supplementing the recommended amount.

Dairy. Milk and cheese. A healthy, tasty way to get all the D you ever need. That's what sustained our ancestors who didn't evolve in the sunbelt.

"Well, he’s not a villain Summer, but he shouldn’t be your hero. He’s more like a demon, or a super fucked up god." - Morty Smith
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9.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 16:06
9.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 16:06
May 21, 2020, 16:06
 
jdreyer wrote on May 21, 2020, 15:33:
Apparently, having low vitamin D is a very large risk factor for having a bad COVID-19 outcome. Here's one study for example:

Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI (vitamin D insufficiency) prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI. Coagulopathy was present in 62.5% of ICU COVID-19 patients, and 92.3% were lymphocytopenic. Conclusions: VDI is highly prevalent in severe COVID-19 patients. VDI and severe COVID-19 share numerous associations including hypertension, obesity, male sex, advanced age, concentration in northern climates, coagulopathy, and immune dysfunction. Thus, we suggest that prospective, randomized controlled studies of VDI in COVID-19 patients are warranted.
Get 15m of sun per day, or take a supplement. Vitamin D has lots of other health benefits, and there's almost no risk to supplementing the recommended amount.

The vitamin D deficiency / COVID-19 potential link is interesting, but keep in mind it's real, REAL early to be saying anything definitive about that. At this point, it's still a correlation vs causation question. At least the study you quoted is just saying that further studies are warranted.

Although people raiding stores for vitamin D pills is not nearly as bad as people buying up all the hydroxychloroquinine so Lupus patients can't get it.

It'll be interesting in 3-5 years when we get some real studies done about COVID-19. Hopefully it won't be completely buried in the news by then.
Avatar 54863
8.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 15:40
Verno
 
8.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 15:40
May 21, 2020, 15:40
 Verno
 
Yeah there was a doctor on Joe Rogan last week talking about those studies, interesting stuff. Really affects some minorities disproportionately too. They already have reduced Vitamin D absorption due to their skin melanin combined with shelter in place orders meaning even less sun exposure and economic factors limiting supplements. Makes for a crappy situation with COVID-19.
Playing: Trials of Mana Remake, FF7R
Watching: Into the Light
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7.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 15:33
7.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 15:33
May 21, 2020, 15:33
 
Apparently, having low vitamin D is a very large risk factor for having a bad COVID-19 outcome. Here's one study for example:

Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI (vitamin D insufficiency) prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI. Coagulopathy was present in 62.5% of ICU COVID-19 patients, and 92.3% were lymphocytopenic. Conclusions: VDI is highly prevalent in severe COVID-19 patients. VDI and severe COVID-19 share numerous associations including hypertension, obesity, male sex, advanced age, concentration in northern climates, coagulopathy, and immune dysfunction. Thus, we suggest that prospective, randomized controlled studies of VDI in COVID-19 patients are warranted.
Get 15m of sun per day, or take a supplement. Vitamin D has lots of other health benefits, and there's almost no risk to supplementing the recommended amount.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
Avatar 22024
6.
 
Re: More on knots
May 21, 2020, 14:13
6.
Re: More on knots May 21, 2020, 14:13
May 21, 2020, 14:13
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on May 21, 2020, 11:56:
Every morning, early in the morning CST, BN becomes inaccessible and web queries report it as down. This happens on multiple devices connected to different networks.
With last week's forums deployment, the UTF8 conversion on Monday, and rebuilding two fulltext indexes today came some down time indeed. But there shouldn't be (have been) a problem on other mornings.
-- Frans
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5.
 
Re: More on knots
May 21, 2020, 12:41
5.
Re: More on knots May 21, 2020, 12:41
May 21, 2020, 12:41
 
RedEye9 wrote on May 21, 2020, 12:17:
Burrito of Peace wrote on May 21, 2020, 11:56:
Another thing for Frans:

Every morning, early in the morning CST, BN becomes inaccessible and web queries report it as down. This happens on multiple devices connected to different networks.
You Linux nuts wake up too early.
I guess it is Fran's still tweaking the magic sauce and it will stop happening once he's satisfied.
Blue, you care to weigh in.

In recent times you may occasionally be running into Frans working on things. This morning in particular there was some downtime from this search function fix. But this is not a daily occurrence. And when it does happen it should be that the site or the forums become briefly inaccessible. As far as I know, we are not experiencing any problems that should result in web queries showing the site being down.
Stephen "Blue" Heaslip
Blue's News Publisher, Editor-in-Chief, El Presidente for Life
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4.
 
Re: More on knots
May 21, 2020, 12:17
4.
Re: More on knots May 21, 2020, 12:17
May 21, 2020, 12:17
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on May 21, 2020, 11:56:
Another thing for Frans:

Every morning, early in the morning CST, BN becomes inaccessible and web queries report it as down. This happens on multiple devices connected to different networks.
You Linux nuts wake up too early.
My guess is Frans is still tweaking the magic sauce and it will stop happening once he's satisfied.
Blue, you care to weigh in.

This comment was edited on May 21, 2020, 12:38.
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
Avatar 58135
3.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
May 21, 2020, 12:12
Cutter
 
3.
Re: Out of the Blue May 21, 2020, 12:12
May 21, 2020, 12:12
 Cutter
 
That was a great line in TDKR....

Trader #1 : This is a stock exchange! There's no money you can steal!

Bane : Really? Then why are you people here?
"Well, he’s not a villain Summer, but he shouldn’t be your hero. He’s more like a demon, or a super fucked up god." - Morty Smith
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2.
 
Re: More on knots
May 21, 2020, 11:56
2.
Re: More on knots May 21, 2020, 11:56
May 21, 2020, 11:56
 
Another thing for Frans:

Every morning, early in the morning CST, BN becomes inaccessible and web queries report it as down. This happens on multiple devices connected to different networks.
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
Avatar 21247
1.
 
More on knots
May 21, 2020, 11:12
1.
More on knots May 21, 2020, 11:12
May 21, 2020, 11:12
 
Not just for Knot-Heads or graduate students.
What is a Knot
Shocked
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
Avatar 58135
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