Cram wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 15:43:
I would be very interested (or maybe not) to know if the console version was dumbed down difficulty wise. Not, because if it's the same game and people are destroying it with a controller...well then I really do suck.

I have absolutely no idea how you could play this game on a controller, not referring just to the platforming. How the hell do you fight a Marauder on a controller, never mind one that's surrounded by an army of demons. As others said, tons of systems and chaos.

I think some things would be easier with a controller.

You need buttons for movement, obviously. On top of that, you need:

Fire
Secondary Fire (which sometimes needs to be held down with Fire)
Grenade
Flame Thrower
Jump
Dash
Chainsaw
Punch

This is ignoring things like switching weapons, or grenade, or mods.
So you need all of this while moving, because taking your finger off strafe right to do a flamethrower likely means death, since the flamethrower only works within enemy-punching-your-face range.

You run out of buttons. Mouse1 fire. Mouse2 Secondary Fire. Mouse3 Flame Thrower. Mouse4 punch. Mouse5 chainsaw. Oh, shit, now I'm out of mouse buttons and there's still grenade. I now have to move my hand in some way, probably taking a finger off of a movement key, to use grenades.

Too much.

A fun game with zero replayability, because apart from "good" combat, there's nothing there.

Every reviewer who praises the maps, round them up and put 'em on your blacklist. I will.

I'd seen a comment somewhere that the devs learned all the wrong lessons.

I agree. The core combat of the game is still great, but everything else kind of sucks. The limited ammo I get, but it is too limited. The upgrades make perfect sense for the guns, but the armor and ruin points are kind of dumb. Ruins make some sense, but the armor... it is poorly explained, and I can't even find how to get there in the UI. And the upgrades seem kind of, well, dumb.

The biggest issue with the original is that replaying levels didn't really work - some levels were 3-4 hours long, but you couldn't save mid-level in replays. They fixed that well, letting you do all kinds of cheat codes when you replay.
But everything else new is kind of terrible.

But, take a fantastic game and add a bunch of terrible new stuff, while keeping the core the same, and you still have a good, fun game.

Drayth wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 18:41:
Answers that.

Haha, the timing there.

Yeah, I can't remember which menu in the options but it is definitely in there for the tutorials.

Answers that.

bigspender wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 16:57:
-The popup tutorials that pause the game, I think I got to shoot the gun about 5 times in the opening level and there were just as many pop ups and pauses. It seems to do this throughout the game. Please just let me shoot things in my Doom game lol (is this some mobile app game design creeping in?)

The popups were definitely an insane amount. Though you should know you can disable them in the options if you are so inclined. I went through them first round so far just to make sure I knew I was getting all the info. IF I go through again I will turn them off.

Beamer wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 17:05:
Just got to the mancubus, and yes, yes, yes! Why did they do that? It ends the pants-staining "oh my god, I'm not equipped for that!"

Is there a way to disable the tutorials and monster flashing? You could in the 2016 game, which I did from the get-go. It was easy enough to tell a monster was glory-killable based on their drunken stupor animation. No need to have them light up like a Christmas tree. If there's demon weak spots I'd rather work out what those are on my own, like you're saying.

HorrorScope wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 17:17:

aka_STEVE wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 11:43:
it's good when it's good ( all out frantic shooting of demons ) , but the platforming, puzzle jumping, quadruple air sprint dodges ??? - WTF?
When did that become part of DOOM ?

It is like a 1st person shooter of TombRaider, mixed with Darksiders,,,, in some parts.
Like I am sitting there playing it, enjoying it, - but then I start saying to myself, " yeah, I'm sure these demons from Hell have some kind of Hell-gineer come in to architect in all these elaborate doors & lifts & puzzles for every one of their demons to navigate just to get in & out of these damn places....

Saying Darksiders kicks in my thoughts of Jedi Fallen Order. The game sputters like dog shit and plays ok and nothing more. Was really surprised at how well it was received. To me it feels like pitty/desperation, it was merely average imo.

The lack of detail in the maps had me think of Darksiders, coincidentally enough. There were so many moments during my Doom Eternal run that I realized really late that I was running through office buildings for example. It's all just low detail and the scale feels off. They sacrificed immersive maps for giant, open soulless maps.

Where DOOM 2016 had a good mix of atmosphere/immersion and combat, Doom Eternal now just had combat. They literally just could've given me the tutorial room and drop a thousand demons in there and I'd have as much fun as I had before I got bored AF.

I hate Doom Eternal, is my verdict. I was frustrated 80% of the time, dashing like Flash like an idiot, searching for the cannon fodder for ammo because of course I only had enough chainsaw fuel for them.

Fion wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 14:16:
If there's any one sector of our economy that isn't hurt by a pandemic, it's the at-home entertainment sector. Video games, television, streaming, laptop & PC hardware sales, board games, card games, etc. It's all booming right now.

I'll see you all of that and raise you a Charmin!

aka_STEVE wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 11:43:
it's good when it's good ( all out frantic shooting of demons ) , but the platforming, puzzle jumping, quadruple air sprint dodges ??? - WTF?
When did that become part of DOOM ?

It is like a 1st person shooter of TombRaider, mixed with Darksiders,,,, in some parts.
Like I am sitting there playing it, enjoying it, - but then I start saying to myself, " yeah, I'm sure these demons from Hell have some kind of Hell-gineer come in to architect in all these elaborate doors & lifts & puzzles for every one of their demons to navigate just to get in & out of these damn places....

Saying Darksiders kicks in my thoughts of Jedi Fallen Order. The game sputters like dog shit and plays ok and nothing more. Was really surprised at how well it was received. To me it feels like pitty/desperation, it was merely average imo.

bigspender wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 16:57:
There's so much good in Doom Eternal but so much that annoys me about it as well.

The combat feels perfect. But there is so much bloat in between it all:

-Awful platforming (why so much of it? yeah I get it you made a wall climbing mechanic).

-And nonsensical mario-esque fireball traps and rotating fire chains (floating in mid air) everywhere, really strange.

-The popup tutorials that pause the game, I think I got to shoot the gun about 5 times in the opening level and there were just as many pop ups and pauses. It seems to do this throughout the game. Please just let me shoot things in my Doom game lol (is this some mobile app game design creeping in?)

-I also don't like that they tell you how to shoot a monster - because you might be too dumb to notice that the flashing red is the weak spot? (and when the mancubus comes out, it totally spoils the surprise of it coming out! It pauses the game, and tells you a mancubus is coming out and shoot it here for more damage.... wowwwwwww!!! )

-The teleportation to tutorial rooms even though you're in the middle of a level is a sin in any game, let alone doom.

-They also never give you enough ammo which virtually forces you to use melee and chainsaw constantly. It makes the combat more repetitive than it needs to be. I like the idea of using the enemies as ammo and health drops but it's too much here. I'm forced to do it.

-Also the fetch quests you have to do in your home base and even on some levels it's a chore.

All of that just seems like they are too scared to let people just enjoy the awesome combat.




And a personal gripe is the story. I loved the idea of being some dude that just happened to be on mars (or earth) when a demonic invasion happened. You take your stimpaks and rip and tear because you're a badass. The comic book of the 90s captured this so well.

But the whole "you're a slayer" and the "doom universe" thing is really contrived. And I don't like the parts of the game that look like they are out Warframe or heaven levels from Diablo 3. Futuristic bases and buildings, and some crazy hell stuff, and throw in some alien ruins for good measure. But having weird medieval style worlds with contrived traps to set off seems really weird to me.

Just got to the mancubus, and yes, yes, yes! Why did they do that? It ends the pants-staining "oh my god, I'm not equipped for that!"

Having us go to the codex to see is fine. Honestly, on the spider brain, I'd never notice the flashing. Too much else going on at the same time. So, just use it to reward me for reading the codex.

There's so much good in Doom Eternal but so much that annoys me about it as well.

The combat feels perfect. But there is so much bloat in between it all:

-Awful platforming (why so much of it? yeah I get it you made a wall climbing mechanic).

-And nonsensical mario-esque fireball traps and rotating fire chains (floating in mid air) everywhere, really strange.

-The popup tutorials that pause the game, I think I got to shoot the gun about 5 times in the opening level and there were just as many pop ups and pauses. It seems to do this throughout the game. Please just let me shoot things in my Doom game lol (is this some mobile app game design creeping in?)

-I also don't like that they tell you how to shoot a monster - because you might be too dumb to notice that the flashing red is the weak spot? (and when the mancubus comes out, it totally spoils the surprise of it coming out! It pauses the game, and tells you a mancubus is coming out and shoot it here for more damage.... wowwwwwww!!! )

-The teleportation to tutorial rooms even though you're in the middle of a level is a sin in any game, let alone doom.

-They also never give you enough ammo which virtually forces you to use melee and chainsaw constantly. It makes the combat more repetitive than it needs to be. I like the idea of using the enemies as ammo and health drops but it's too much here. I'm forced to do it.

-Also the fetch quests you have to do in your home base and even on some levels it's a chore.

All of that just seems like they are too scared to let people just enjoy the awesome combat.




And a personal gripe is the story. I loved the idea of being some dude that just happened to be on mars (or earth) when a demonic invasion happened. You take your stimpaks and rip and tear because you're a badass. The comic book of the 90s captured this so well.

But the whole "you're a slayer" and the "doom universe" thing is really contrived. And I don't like the parts of the game that look like they are out Warframe or heaven levels from Diablo 3. Futuristic bases and buildings, and some crazy hell stuff, and throw in some alien ruins for good measure. But having weird medieval style worlds with contrived traps to set off seems really weird to me.


But I love the combat, and I love how there is a lot of monster in-fighting and I love how mobile the enemies are. Often they are already running before you even enter a room, so it doesn't feel like you've just triggered their "attack" AI code when they detect you. it makes it seem like they were already there fighting and you're just part of the chaos. Or they're the ones ambushing you. It's great.

Agreed on all counts.

1) The new locations look awesome but also feel kind of silly and nonsensical.

2) The plot took a huge step backwards IMO. Doom 2016 had a very slick plot presented entirely in-game, and it held together very well. Doom Eternal has some ridiculously complicated monstrosity of a plot presented by codex entries that you slowly pick up and then have to read through.

I never liked the name "Doom Slayer" (they couldn't have done "Doom Soldier"? Really?) so I do like that they are now calling him "Doomguy." But it was much cooler when he was a faceless force of demon-stomping, "unstoppable, incorruptible, unyielding" like in Doom 2016.

3) I'm fine with the humor, but the base is annoying. Sure, it's massive and impressive and whatever, but it takes way too long to walk around between missions.

4) Yeah, I get what they were going for I think (make the single-death difficulty playable). But it still feels weird that loading your checkpoint save-game doesn't restore lost lives. Those are just gone.

But yeah, I'm really enjoying it overall too.

Fion wrote on Mar 23, 2020, 14:16:
If there's any one sector of our economy that isn't hurt by a pandemic, it's the at-home entertainment sector. Video games, television, streaming, laptop & PC hardware sales, board games, card games, etc. It's all booming right now.

GameStop says hi.

I would be very interested (or maybe not) to know if the console version was dumbed down difficulty wise. Not, because if it's the same game and people are destroying it with a controller...well then I really do suck.

I have absolutely no idea how you could play this game on a controller, not referring just to the platforming. How the hell do you fight a Marauder on a controller, never mind one that's surrounded by an army of demons. As others said, tons of systems and chaos.

If there's any one sector of our economy that isn't hurt by a pandemic, it's the at-home entertainment sector. Video games, television, streaming, laptop & PC hardware sales, board games, card games, etc. It's all booming right now.

Played about 20 minutes... seems really boring. Sixteen shotgun shell limit? What the FUCK? And the whole "arena" shit from the last game is apparently continued here, full steam ahead?

Too many systems and subsystems. The game tries way too hard to be frantic. All the platforming and jumping puzzle crap becomes quickly tedious. For me it became not fun very quickly.

I'm only just beginning the third level, which is probably 5 hours in or so?

I liked the original more, but I think some of this is just what I remember and what I don't. Keep in mind, I adored the original, so being below that bar doesn't mean I'm not really enjoying it. That said:

1) The original had better locations (thus far.) In the original, you start on the Mars base, which gets more and more corrupted, and then you end up in Hell. Here, you're in essentially the Hell levels to start. In the original, you were in places that made some kind of sense. You recognized office corridors, and spatially, it all fit. Then Hell was a pretty big shift. Here, you begin in things that are foreign, don't logically fit layout-wise, and are hard to visualize spatially in your head. To me, that's a downgrade.

2) Plot, too. The original was a story of a greedy corporation doing something bad and people making bad choices around it. With a layer of humanity mixed in to both why the corporation was messing and why bad decisions were made. Now, we're getting something more operatic with the fight between some race of something and Hell. But it's on Earth. I don't give a shit who the King of the Sentinals is, or who the Betrayer is. I just want to be some unknown being that is basically insanely good at killing demons now being sent to Earth to kill demons. I don't want to know where I came from. I don't want to see anything other than the remains of Earth's fight for itself, and demons to kill. I don't need much beyond this, and fleshing it out is making it worse, not better.

3) Humor. I feel like, in the original, it was played straight, with the deaths being funny, and maybe the secrets. Here, it's played in a few more areas, and there's a ridiculous hub that is loaded with humorous touches. They're throwbacks, sure, but they feel a bit out of place, and having to run around some giant hub is stupid. I don't want to walk down 4 floors and go 150 meters horizontally. I just want to click "kill more demons in next mission" or "kill more demons in a prevoiusly killed mission."

4) I'm cool with extra lives, but wish we could pick whether to use it or not. Having an extra life be used when I did something dumb and fell in lava isn't enjoyable, when I know there's a battle around the corner I'd much rather have it for.

All this said, I'm really enjoying the combat. I do think we should be able to hold more ammo, but I guess I can redo levels with cheat codes for real killing. Right now, I'm on Ultra-Hardcore or whathaveyou, the one below Nightmare, and finding it extremely fair. Not dying much.

it's good when it's good ( all out frantic shooting of demons ) , but the platforming, puzzle jumping, quadruple air sprint dodges ??? - WTF?
When did that become part of DOOM ?

It is like a 1st person shooter of TombRaider, mixed with Darksiders,,,, in some parts.
Like I am sitting there playing it, enjoying it, - but then I start saying to myself, " yeah, I'm sure these demons from Hell have some kind of Hell-gineer come in to architect in all these elaborate doors & lifts & puzzles for every one of their demons to navigate just to get in & out of these damn places....