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20. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 22, 2020, 01:39  jdreyer 
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 21, 2020, 16:47:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 21, 2020, 15:24:
I'm not home right now, so I can't test it, but what does tracert show?

Since you asked for a Windows command, here is what I get out of my Windows VM:

Tracing route to apple.com [17.178.96.59]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 30 ms 28 ms 25 ms 1.1.1.1
2 26 ms 28 ms 29 ms 208.84.155.78
3 24 ms 29 ms 30 ms server1.itechosting.net [104.200.142.68]
4 24 ms 24 ms 35 ms 104.200.142.36
5 29 ms 24 ms 28 ms eqix-da1.apple-2.com [206.223.118.215]
6 68 ms 69 ms 71 ms 17.0.86.44
7 62 ms 79 ms 65 ms 17.1.2.109
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 67 ms 64 ms 68 ms 17.0.13.197
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 63 ms 64 ms 69 ms 17.111.65.225
15 * * * Request timed out.

16-30 are all "Request timed out."

This is from running my data through a VPN connection to CloudFlare's DNS server.

If I do an nslookup:

Server: one.one.one.one
Address: 1.1.1.1

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: apple.com
Addresses: 17.142.160.59
17.178.96.59
17.172.224.47
I see, the idea being that your VPN encrypts at the client, so the ISP can't see it.
 
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19. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 21, 2020, 16:47  Burrito of Peace 
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 21, 2020, 15:24:
I'm not home right now, so I can't test it, but what does tracert show?

Since you asked for a Windows command, here is what I get out of my Windows VM:

Tracing route to apple.com [17.178.96.59]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 30 ms 28 ms 25 ms 1.1.1.1
2 26 ms 28 ms 29 ms 208.84.155.78
3 24 ms 29 ms 30 ms server1.itechosting.net [104.200.142.68]
4 24 ms 24 ms 35 ms 104.200.142.36
5 29 ms 24 ms 28 ms eqix-da1.apple-2.com [206.223.118.215]
6 68 ms 69 ms 71 ms 17.0.86.44
7 62 ms 79 ms 65 ms 17.1.2.109
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 67 ms 64 ms 68 ms 17.0.13.197
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 63 ms 64 ms 69 ms 17.111.65.225
15 * * * Request timed out.

16-30 are all "Request timed out."

This is from running my data through a VPN connection to CloudFlare's DNS server.

If I do an nslookup:

Server: one.one.one.one
Address: 1.1.1.1

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: apple.com
Addresses: 17.142.160.59
17.178.96.59
17.172.224.47
 
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18. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 21, 2020, 15:24  jdreyer 
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 21, 2020, 14:46:
No, jdreyer, not if you have your router set to forward all DNS queries to 1.1.1.1 and/or 1.0.0.1 which are Cloudflare's DNS servers.

The only thing your ISP will know is that you connection is pushing a lot of data to, and pulling from, whatever IP your VPN provider has for their connection. Your router will route the traffic through your VPN and then go find Cloudflare's DNS servers to resolve URLs.
I'm not home right now, so I can't test it, but what does tracert show?
 
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17. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 21, 2020, 14:46  Burrito of Peace 
 
No, jdreyer, not if you have your router set to forward all DNS queries to 1.1.1.1 and/or 1.0.0.1 which are Cloudflare's DNS servers.

The only thing your ISP will know is that you connection is pushing a lot of data to, and pulling from, whatever IP your VPN provider has for their connection. Your router will route the traffic through your VPN and then go find Cloudflare's DNS servers to resolve URLs.
 
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"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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16. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 21, 2020, 01:53  jdreyer 
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 17:58:
When I say "setup a VPN in your router", I meant "Connect to the VPN provider of your choice via your router and tunnel all traffic through said VPN".

Cloudflare's DNS is encrypted and the go to for my router setup. Ergo, setting FF's DoH to Cloudflare is somewhat redundant in this particular scenario.

But to get to Cloudflare you have to pass through your ISPs servers, don't you? With EDoH, you encrypt at the client, before it ever leaves your PC.
 
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15. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 17:58  Burrito of Peace 
 
When I say "setup a VPN in your router", I meant "Connect to the VPN provider of your choice via your router and tunnel all traffic through said VPN".

Cloudflare's DNS is encrypted and the go to for my router setup. Ergo, setting FF's DoH to Cloudflare is somewhat redundant in this particular scenario.
 
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"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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14. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 16:19  jdreyer 
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 09:23:
Set up a VPN connection in your router, use Cloudflare's DNS, and tell the ISPs to fuck right off.
Also turn on encrypted DNS over HTTPS in your browser. I know FF supports this.
 
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13. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 13:08  Mr. Tact 
 
Nullity wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 13:04:
Many consumer routers support setting up a VPN, even using the stock firmware.
Interesting, mine doesn't. But like I said, been four years since I bought it. I'll keep that in mind when I have to get a new one.
 



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12. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 13:04 Nullity
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 11:17:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 09:23:
Set up a VPN connection in your router ...
Using a VPN would certainly prevent the ISP from getting the data, but are there retail routers which let you setup a VPN? It has been four years since I bought one. I know it can be done in commercial grade routers.
Many consumer routers support setting up a VPN, even using the stock firmware. However, I cannot speak to the routers provided by various ISPs. They are often bare-bones, using sub-standard hardware, and have features disabled. I've always used my own routers.

Though to suggest an inexpensive alternative, I already had a Raspberry Pi running Pi-hole, so I just set up PiVPN on the same device. Super easy and works great. It's configured to use Cloudflare DNS and I used it to block ads/tracking on my cell phone from anywhere, and get access to various machines/services on my intranet.
 
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11. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 12:02  Mr. Tact 
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 11:38:
Do you even have to setup a physical, or vm, vpn.Donít pia and other vpnís hide your data.
Nope, a physical device isn't required -- software can get it done. But since BoP mentioned it, I was just curious...
 



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10. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 11:38  RedEye9 
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 11:17:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 09:23:
Set up a VPN connection in your router ...
Using a VPN would certainly prevent the ISP from getting the data, but are there retail routers which let you setup a VPN? It has been four years since I bought one. I know it can be done in commercial grade routers.
Do you even have to setup a physical, or vm, vpn.
Donít pia and other vpnís hide your data.
 
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9. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 11:17  Mr. Tact 
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 20, 2020, 09:23:
Set up a VPN connection in your router ...
Using a VPN would certainly prevent the ISP from getting the data, but are there retail routers which let you setup a VPN? It has been four years since I bought one. I know it can be done in commercial grade routers.
 



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8. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 09:23  Burrito of Peace 
 
Set up a VPN connection in your router, use Cloudflare's DNS, and tell the ISPs to fuck right off.  
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"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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7. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 08:16  Mr. Tact 
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 19, 2020, 22:48:
I don't understand how in any way, shape, or form anyone could construe those ISPs being muzzled. In what way does data mining consumers without their consent qualify as protected speech?
For the record, I wasn't agreeing with the argument, I was simply saying legal logic tends the way I indicated. I hope I'm wrong.
 



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6. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 20, 2020, 03:12  jdreyer 
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 19, 2020, 22:50:
9 billion? Huh, sounds awful low. Go after Amazon, Apple, and Google next.
Don't forget Dizney and TWC.
 
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5. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 19, 2020, 22:50  Cutter 
 
9 billion? Huh, sounds awful low. Go after Amazon, Apple, and Google next.
 
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4. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 19, 2020, 22:48  Cutter 
 
jdreyer wrote on Feb 19, 2020, 21:43:
ISPs sue Maine, claim Web-privacy law violates their free-speech rights.

"You're violating my first amendment rights to sell your data!"

Great analogy here....

Imagine we live in a society where nobody is allowed to drive except a few people given special licenses by the state. You still need to pay them to drive you around. While driving you around 24/7, they make copious notes of everything you do, everywhere you go, everyone you talk to, all the time, and sell that information to anyone who wants it, over your express objections. Now imagine when you petition your state government, and they pass a law that makes this illegal, the driver has the audacity to sue the state, arguing that they can't preclude drivers from collecting and selling your information because they didn't also explicitly prevent fast food clerks from collecting and selling your information.

That's how ridiculous this argument is.

I don't understand how in any way, shape, or form anyone could construe those ISPs being muzzled. In what way does data mining consumers without their consent qualify as protected speech?
 
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"Whatever you say Stone Cold Steve AustinÖI don't know why I just said that. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but gonna stand by it. Whatever you say Stone Cold Steve Austin! I'm owning it." - Rick Sanchez
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3. Re: ISPs sue Maine, claim Web-privacy law violates their free-speech rights. Feb 19, 2020, 21:47  Mr. Tact 
 
Did I read this correctly? Basically, the ISPs are claiming restricting their ability to sell their customer's information violates their free-speech because other companies are not similarly restricted? As much as I hate to admit it, it is the kind of logic the legal system seems to favor. I won't be shocked if the ISPs win...  



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2. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 19, 2020, 21:43  jdreyer 
 
ISPs sue Maine, claim Web-privacy law violates their free-speech rights.

"You're violating my first amendment rights to sell your data!"
 
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1. Re: Evening Legal Briefs Feb 19, 2020, 20:43  RedEye9 
 

A bad Irish double Dutch sammich goes moldy.

 
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