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Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update

A post on Reddit has a follow-up about refunds for macOS and Linux Rocket League players following the recent news that Psyonix is dropping support for both OSes in their motorized sports game (thanks Ant). They explain that the plan to provide affected players with refunds did not go as expected, but now these players should be able to apply for refunds directly through Steam. They also elaborate on the decision to drop Linux and macOS support:
Rocket League is an evolving game, and part of that evolution is keeping our game client up to date with modern features. As part of that evolution, we'll be updating our Windows version from 32-bit to 64-bit later this year, as well as updating to DirectX 11 from DirectX 9.

There are multiple reasons for this change, but the primary one is that there are new types of content and features we'd like to develop, but cannot support on DirectX 9. This means when we fully release DX11 on Windows, we'll no longer support DX9 as it will be incompatible with future content.

Unfortunately, our macOS and Linux native clients depend on our DX9 implementation for their OpenGL renderer to function. When we stop supporting DX9, those clients stop working. To keep these versions functional, we would need to invest significant additional time and resources in a replacement rendering pipeline such as Metal on macOS or Vulkan/OpenGL4 on Linux. We'd also need to invest perpetual support to ensure new content and releases work as intended on those replacement pipelines.

The number of active players on macOS and Linux combined represents less than 0.3% of our active player base. Given that, we cannot justify the additional and ongoing investment in developing native clients for those platforms, especially when viable workarounds exist like Bootcamp or Wine to keep those users playing.
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22. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 28, 2020, 14:00 Verno
 
Because they made an announcement promising nothing would change by being bought by Epic.

So what? They didn't enter into a contract or something, it was a speculative PR statement that they probably had to reverse after business realities made themselves apparent. This stuff happens, do you lambast every company who drops Linux support? There have been many. It sucks but these things happen, as a Linux user I've long since given up thinking I could use it as a primary gaming platform. Between its many compatibility issues and lack of support from the business side of the industry it's just not worth it. Don't buy their next game if it really bothers you that much I guess. It sucks but what more do you want? They explained why and there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

They invested time and money to port it to the Switch, which as I've already said (and you quoted) doesn't support DirectX, so they either had to use OpenGL, Vulcan, or make a special NVN port. Either that or they're using the same DirectX to OpenGL wrapper used by Linux and macOS. They haven't announced dropping support on the Switch, so either they're not using the DX to OpenGL wrapper, or they're lying about not being able to make it work on Linux and mac. We also don't know how much of their user base is on the Switch. If it turns out it's not worth their time to maintain the Switch port too, are you going to stick up for them when they drop support for that after taking money for the game and in-game purchases?

Again there is a lot more to platform support other than the renderer. They obviously look at the whole picture and if there is a way for a company to make money, you can be pretty sure they want to do that. That's their goal after all, to make money. I'm not sticking up for them, I just understand the reality of the situation and don't really see it worth getting worked up over.

No one forced them to make Linux and mac ports. They knew (or should have known) the size of the Linux and mac user base and thought it was worth their time making ports to those two OSes. Saying Linux and mac are 0.3% of the player base does not tell us the exact number. People have been trying to figure out how how many players 0.3% is. If it's 0.3% of just PC players, it's not much, but if it's 0.3% of the entire player base, that's not what I'd consider insignificant.

They don't need to tell you the exact number. Why would that be important? They obviously can't make money with whatever the figure is. Companies like making money so if it was possible you can be pretty sure they would. The ROI for those platforms isn't there and while it was nice of them to make ports in the past, they are under no obligation to keep doing so in the future. You bought a videogame, they don't always work forever thanks to the wonderful invention of the internet. That is the downside of online gaming, stuff changes. I have 30 year old games that still work and I have 3 year old games that no longer work, shit happens. Play Rocket League on another platform or just move on with your life and hate the developer forever I guess.
 



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21. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 27, 2020, 19:14  Beamer 
 
He's also said some very nice things about it. It's almost as if he has a nuanced opinion that is neither "it's perfect and I should recommend it to everyone" and "it's a waste of time and should die."

UE4 supports it.
 



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20. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 27, 2020, 17:27  MeanJim 
 
Rilcon wrote on Jan 27, 2020, 05:08:
Tim Sweeny has been openly vocal about not liking Linux in the past. They're probably upgrading to 64bit because of memory limitations due to of the amount of cosmetic DLC they're adding.

That is without a doubt, unquestionably, despite over a decade of reading comments here from all sorts of Blues News "celebrities", the absolute most hilariously stupid thing I have ever read on this site. I can only hope that you're being facetious, in which case hat's off to you, but at this point the level of vitriol towards and ignorance of the game dev industry evident on this site is so great that I'm inclined to take this complete absurdity at face value.

The reddit post from earlier had links to a past tweets and posts from Tim Sweeny saying not very nice things about Linux.

You must not play the game if you don't know how ridiculous the amount of cosmetic DLC and micro transactions have been added to the game over the years, and how the game has been getting slower to load when joining games. First it was DLC packs sold on Steam which included a few cars, decals, paint, toppers, antennas, wheels and goal explosions, engine sounds, etc. Then the crates came out, which are now replaced by blueprints. Then Rocket Pass seasons, which there is a new one every 4 months. Each Rocket Pass includes a free tier and premium tier. Everyone gets the free tier items. You get items after "leveling up" your rocket pass. The premium tier includes 70 items, and after getting all 70 items, it then begins to drop painted variants of those 70 items. There are 13 possible paint combinations in addition to the default variant. They are on the 5th rocket pass now, which makes that almost 5000 unique items added to the game in just over the last year, in addition to the crap added before that. The game is struggling to handle it. Cars used to pop in instantly, now they load a basic version and then the items, paint, decals, wheels etc. slowly fade in on top of it. There have been lots of problems, from goal explosions causing the game to lag, certain cars to not even show up, or just show up as a basic version without the player's customization. There's still a bug I get occasionally where the sound randomly cuts out until after a goal and everything resets.

Rilcon wrote on Jan 27, 2020, 05:08:
If you can play games on it, it's a gaming platform. People game on Android phones and tablets. Android is Linux based, is that not a gaming platform? The PS4 uses a port of FreeBSD as its operating system, is that not a gaming platform? The Switch's OS is also BSD based, as is macOS. If they can support those platforms, why not macOS?
An oscillator built in 1968 can play Space Wars, does that make oscillators gaming platforms? What about an ATM? It runs Windows CE, and that can run games; are ATMs gaming platforms?

That point went straight over your head, but I'll take partial responsibility for the way phrased it (it was late when I was posting). I meant to say that if you can play games on it, it can be a gaming platform. Mobile phones weren't created to play games on, but now mobile gaming is a big industry. DOS and Windows were not gaming platforms until people started making games for them. Unix was not a gaming platform, but people have been making games on it long before open source Unix likes were even a dream. BSD was not a gaming platform, and now two consoles use it as their OS.

Verno wrote on Jan 27, 2020, 08:06:
MeanJim wrote on Jan 27, 2020, 02:42:
Or they could just upgrade to Vulcan, which is cross platform with pretty much everything. As I sad above, they're either already using Vulcan or OpenGL for the Switch port, or they went out of their way to port it to NVN just for one platform.

Why would they support platforms that are less than 1% of their playerbase? There is a lot more to platform support than the renderer anyway even if they wanted to invest the money into that. There is no business case for this and its totally understandable, frankly I'm surprised they bothered in the first place.

Because they made an announcement promising nothing would change by being bought by Epic.

They invested time and money to port it to the Switch, which as I've already said (and you quoted) doesn't support DirectX, so they either had to use OpenGL, Vulcan, or make a special NVN port. Either that or they're using the same DirectX to OpenGL wrapper used by Linux and macOS. They haven't announced dropping support on the Switch, so either they're not using the DX to OpenGL wrapper, or they're lying about not being able to make it work on Linux and mac. We also don't know how much of their user base is on the Switch. If it turns out it's not worth their time to maintain the Switch port too, are you going to stick up for them when they drop support for that after taking money for the game and in-game purchases?

No one forced them to make Linux and mac ports. They knew (or should have known) the size of the Linux and mac user base and thought it was worth their time making ports to those two OSes. Saying Linux and mac are 0.3% of the player base does not tell us the exact number. People have been trying to figure out how how many players 0.3% is. If it's 0.3% of just PC players, it's not much, but if it's 0.3% of the entire player base, that's not what I'd consider insignificant.

If I had to guess, this is more to do with pressure from Epic to drop support because their Store does not support Linux, and part of the deal they made when being bought is that the game would move exclusively to the Epic store. A lot of people predicted this when the only answer they would give after the Epic announcement whether or not support Linux and mac support would continue since the Epic Game Store doesn't support them was "maybe" or "we'll see" and "you can keep playing it on Steam."

What makes it all the more scummy is they waited to announce this after selling the current season rocket pass and months after opening the new in-game store. They're refunding the game for Linux and mac users (or claim to be, but so far that reddit post is full of people saying they still can't get one), but they aren't giving refunds for any in-game purchases.

I wonder how many people sticking up for Epic/Psyonics' decision are also clinging to their dead Windows 7 and refusing update to or reluctantly updated to Windows 10? How many of you would still be defending them if they announced their game won't run on Windows 7 after the next update? I don't game on Linux, but Microsoft seems to be trying to kill Windows, by wanting to turn it into a closed platform and paid service model. When/if Windows becomes a (bigger) pile of shit, you're going to wish more developers supported Linux or mac.
 
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19. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 27, 2020, 08:06 Verno
 
MeanJim wrote on Jan 27, 2020, 02:42:
Or they could just upgrade to Vulcan, which is cross platform with pretty much everything. As I sad above, they're either already using Vulcan or OpenGL for the Switch port, or they went out of their way to port it to NVN just for one platform.

Why would they support platforms that are less than 1% of their playerbase? There is a lot more to platform support than the renderer anyway even if they wanted to invest the money into that. There is no business case for this and its totally understandable, frankly I'm surprised they bothered in the first place. This is why most Kickstarters cancel their promised Linux support after doing a platform survey.
 



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18. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 27, 2020, 05:25 gfunk
 
I guess the question we should ask now is does the game run with proton (answer looks like yes) and will Linux users running via proton be allowed to play without fear of being kicked/banned

Rilcon wrote on Jan 27, 2020, 05:08:
They're probably upgrading to 64bit because of memory limitations due to of the amount of cosmetic DLC they're adding.

That is without a doubt, unquestionably, despite over a decade of reading comments here from all sorts of Blues News "celebrities", the absolute most hilariously stupid thing I have ever read on this site.

He's actually made a good point.. the game is getting saturated with paid cosmetic DLC. But I can see moving to 64bit and DX11 is a half decent reason to drop Mac and Linux
 
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17. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 27, 2020, 05:08  Rilcon 
 
Tim Sweeny has been openly vocal about not liking Linux in the past. They're probably upgrading to 64bit because of memory limitations due to of the amount of cosmetic DLC they're adding.

That is without a doubt, unquestionably, despite over a decade of reading comments here from all sorts of Blues News "celebrities", the absolute most hilariously stupid thing I have ever read on this site. I can only hope that you're being facetious, in which case hat's off to you, but at this point the level of vitriol towards and ignorance of the game dev industry evident on this site is so great that I'm inclined to take this complete absurdity at face value.

If you can play games on it, it's a gaming platform. People game on Android phones and tablets. Android is Linux based, is that not a gaming platform? The PS4 uses a port of FreeBSD as its operating system, is that not a gaming platform? The Switch's OS is also BSD based, as is macOS. If they can support those platforms, why not macOS?
An oscillator built in 1968 can play Space Wars, does that make oscillators gaming platforms? What about an ATM? It runs Windows CE, and that can run games; are ATMs gaming platforms?

Fucking Christ, the dogmatism in games' tech is comical. Stallman doesn't even stand out anymore.
 
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16. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 27, 2020, 02:42  MeanJim 
 
Kxmode wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 23:01:
They're not lying. 0.3% for ANY business doesn't justify the cost it would take to migrate their client to Metal on macOS or Vulkan/OpenGL4 on Linux.

Or they could just upgrade to Vulcan, which is cross platform with pretty much everything. As I sad above, they're either already using Vulcan or OpenGL for the Switch port, or they went out of their way to port it to NVN just for one platform.

Kxmode wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 23:01:
As I said before, "Linux and Mac have never been gaming platforms."

If you can play games on it, it's a gaming platform. People game on Android phones and tablets. Android is Linux based, is that not a gaming platform? The PS4 uses a port of FreeBSD as its operating system, is that not a gaming platform? The Switch's OS is also BSD based, as is macOS. If they can support those platforms, why not macOS?

Kxmode wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 23:01:
That said, upgrading to 64-bit and DX11 could be Epic's decision. At which point, you're right, and Epic is ultimately making the call. It's hard to tell.

Tim Sweeny has been openly vocal about not liking Linux in the past. They're probably upgrading to 64bit because of memory limitations due to of the amount of cosmetic DLC they're adding.
 
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15. removed Jan 27, 2020, 02:28 SirKnight
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jan 27, 2020, 08:35.
 
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14. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 23:38  Mr. Tact 
 
gfunk wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 17:22:
Epic's Tim Sweeney = Donald trump of the gaming industry
Man, I'm not sure who is getting the shit end of that stick...
 



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13. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 23:32  Prez 
 
gfunk wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 17:22:
Epic's Tim Sweeney = Donald trump of the gaming industry

Not a fan of Tim Sweeney but that's still a bit harsh.
 
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12. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 23:07  Kxmode 
 
MeanJim wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 21:58:
I guess it's time they issue a correction to their announcement:

One last thing before we go

The success of Rocket League would not have been possible without you, our community. Your loyalty, excitement, and creativity in supporting Psyonix has helped us become who we are, and we look forward to 99.7% of you helping us for many more years to come. You 99.7% have our sincerest thanks and appreciation.

Release schedule:
Windows, PlayStation 4 - July 7, 2015
macOS, Linux - September 8, 2016

The success on Windows is why MacOS and Linux support even existed in the first place.
 
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11. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 23:03  Kxmode 
 
Verno wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 20:57:
The number of active players on macOS and Linux combined represents less than 0.3% of our active player base

Kinda says it all right there. Yeowch.

"Linux and Mac have never been gaming platforms."
 
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10. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 23:01  Kxmode 
 
MeanJim wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 16:43:
Fucking liars. Quotes right from their announcement about being acquired by EPIC:

Today is a big day for us here at Psyonix because, just as the headline says, we're officially joining the Epic Games family.

Your first question to news like this might be, "What does this mean for Rocket League and its community?" We're happy to say that the answers are only positive. Rocket League always has been and always will be a community-driven game, and now that we have joined forces with Epic, we will be able to serve our community in even bigger and better ways!

In the long-term, we expect to bring Rocket League to the Epic Games store and to leverage our new relationship to grow the game in ways we couldn't do on our own before. We believe that bringing Rocket League to new audiences with more support is a win for everybody.

"What happens to the Psyonix team?"

We are the same team that we've always been, only now, we have the power and experience of Epic Games behind us!


They're not lying. 0.3% for ANY business doesn't justify the cost it would take to migrate their client to Metal on macOS or Vulkan/OpenGL4 on Linux. As I said before, "Linux and Mac have never been gaming platforms."

That said, upgrading to 64-bit and DX11 could be Epic's decision. At which point, you're right, and Epic is ultimately making the call. It's hard to tell.
 
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9. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 21:58  MeanJim 
 
RaZ0r! wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 20:30:
Wasn't this game free? Ah yeah it was free to anyone that pre-ordered Steam hardware. (Link, Controller, or Steam Machine)

Yes. That's a bit of extra salt in the wound since Steam Link and Machines run Linux.

Verno wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 20:57:
The number of active players on macOS and Linux combined represents less than 0.3% of our active player base

Kinda says it all right there. Yeowch.

I guess it's time they issue a correction to their announcement:

One last thing before we go

The success of Rocket League would not have been possible without you, our community. Your loyalty, excitement, and creativity in supporting Psyonix has helped us become who we are, and we look forward to 99.7% of you helping us for many more years to come. You 99.7% have our sincerest thanks and appreciation.
 
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8. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 20:57 Verno
 
The number of active players on macOS and Linux combined represents less than 0.3% of our active player base

Kinda says it all right there. Yeowch.
 



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7. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 20:30  RaZ0r! 
 
Wasn't this game free? Ah yeah it was free to anyone that pre-ordered Steam hardware. (Link, Controller, or Steam Machine)  
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6. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 19:20  Cutter 
 
gfunk wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 17:22:
Epic's Tim Sweeney = Donald trump of the gaming industry

That's pretty low. Sweeny is a scumbag to be sure but Donald Trump level of scumbag? That may be reaching a bit there.
 
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5. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 18:36  MeanJim 
 
MattyC wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 17:28:
I dont have access to their numbers or anything, but if Mac users are really less than half a percent of their user base, this sounds perfectly reasonable. At any rate Rocket League came out in 2015, Epic only acquired them in the middle of last year, so its not like this was something they were pushing for. They managed to get it out for the Switch (and the other consoles) which is ARM and Tegra faster.

I had forgotten Rocket League was ported to the Switch. I wonder how much of their player base uses the Switch. Most Switch players probably already own it on another console or PC and just got it again on the Switch to play it on the go. The Switch supports OpenGL, Vulcan and NVIDIA NVN. I wonder what they're using on the Switch for Rocket League. Either they're already using OpenGL or Vulcan, in which case why can't they use that on mac or Linux, or they're spending their precious limited resources to port it to NVN. I thought being acquired by EPIC was going to give them "the power and experience of Epic Games" to make Rocket League better.
 
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4. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 17:28 MattyC
 
MeanJim wrote on Jan 26, 2020, 16:43:
Fucking liars. Quotes right from their announcement about being acquired by EPIC:

Today is a big day for us here at Psyonix because, just as the headline says, were officially joining the Epic Games family.

Your first question to news like this might be, "What does this mean for Rocket League and its community?" Were happy to say that the answers are only positive. Rocket League always has been and always will be a community-driven game, and now that we have joined forces with Epic, we will be able to serve our community in even bigger and better ways!

In the long-term, we expect to bring Rocket League to the Epic Games store and to leverage our new relationship to grow the game in ways we couldnt do on our own before. We believe that bringing Rocket League to new audiences with more support is a win for everybody.

"What happens to the Psyonix team?"

We are the same team that weve always been, only now, we have the power and experience of Epic Games behind us!


I dont have access to their numbers or anything, but if Mac users are really less than half a percent of their user base, this sounds perfectly reasonable. At any rate Rocket League came out in 2015, Epic only acquired them in the middle of last year, so its not like this was something they were pushing for. They managed to get it out for the Switch (and the other consoles) which is ARM and Tegra faster.
 
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3. Re: Rocket League macOS and Linux Refund Update Jan 26, 2020, 17:22 gfunk
 
Epic's Tim Sweeney = Donald trump of the gaming industry  
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