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Joe Biden on CDA and Video Games

In a Joe Biden interview in The New York Times, the former US vice president and current presidential hopeful discusses technology, saying he's in favor of revoking Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which says that online platforms aren't liable for things their users post on them. He also talks about his dealings with silicon valley during his time at the White House. In one of his signature freewheeling rambles he calls the executives he spoke with "creeps," "righteous," and "arrogant," referring to their output as "games to teach you how to kill people." Here's the perspective on current technology from someone who still refers to phone calls as coming through a switchboard:
And you may recall, the criticism I got for meeting with the leaders in Silicon Valley, when I was trying to work out an agreement dealing with them protecting intellectual property for artists in the United States of America. And at one point, one of the little creeps sitting around that table, who was a multi- close to a billionaire who told me he was an artist because he was able to come up with games to teach you how to kill people, you know the

CW: Like video games.

Yeah, video games. And I was lectured by one of the senior leaders there that by saying if I insisted on what Leahyd put together and we were, I thought we were going to fully support, that they would blow up the network, figuratively speaking. Have everybody contact. They get out and go out and contact the switchboard, just blow it up.

And then one of these righteous people said to me that, you know, We are the economic engine of America. We are the ones. And fortunately I had done a little homework before I went and I said, you know, I find it fascinating. As I added up the seven outfits, everyones there but Microsoft. I said, you have fewer people on your payroll than all the losses that General Motors just faced in the last quarter, of employees. So dont lecture me about how youve created all this employment.

The point is, theres an arrogance about it, an overwhelming arrogance that we are, we are the ones. We can do what we want to do. I disagree.
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37. Re: Joe Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 20, 2020, 01:56 Razumen
 
Sepharo wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 17:51:
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 17:48:
Actually, I was simply referring to the quote clip provided by Blue -- which is what my original post was predicated on. However, on that subject, here is a fuller quote from Biden:
No, Ive never been a fan of Facebook, as you probably know. Ive never been a big Zuckerberg fan. I think hes a real problem. I think he knows better. And you know, from my perspective, Ive been in the view that not only should we be worrying about the concentration of power, we should be worried about the lack of privacy and them being exempt, which youre not exempt. [The Times] cant write something you know to be false and be exempt from being sued. But he can. The idea that its a tech company is that Section 230 should be revoked, immediately should be revoked, number one. For Zuckerberg and other platforms.
Either Biden or his comment is confused, because he seems to be talking about Zuckerburg writing false statements. If section 230 is accurately portrayed as about the site not being responsible for anyone's comments on the site. Obviously those are two separate things. So, I agree Zuckerburg should be responsible for his comments. I think holding Facebook responsible for what anyone said on the site is essentially unenforceable, and hence meaningless. The consequences of attempting to do that would be a waste of time and effort. I mean, yeah. you might technically get "legitimate" sites to turn into censorship machines, but it will simply move to sites the government will have a much harder time doing anything about. I suspect if Biden sat down with someone who could explain the reality of the situation, he would probably agree.

Revoking 230 is what that entire part of the interview is about and what Blue's post is about.

Yeah, but revoking it is not going to do what Biden thinks it will, or what he's trying to pass it off as doing.
 
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36. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 18:22  Prez 
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 17:27:
Prez wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 13:17:
Thankfully Ole' Joe is one of the final dinosaurs in the political space who grew up in a time before videogames were a part of virtually every childhood to at least some degree. These antiquated, wrong-headed views will die with him and his ilk.

And Jdreyer, how can you possibly claim he was not speaking about videogames? He literally said:

... And at one point, one of the little creeps sitting around that table, who was a multi- close to a billionaire who told me he was an artist because he was able to come up with games to teach you how to kill people, you know the

CW: Like video games.

Yeah, video games. ...

I'm not sure how you can even try to spin that as anything else.
He was talking about the guy that makes video games. Yes, I don't think he's a video game fan, but that's not the thrust of his rant. He's really pissed at the tech Bros, just like all of us.

I understand what the gist of his comment was, but, off-handed remark or not, the "coming up with games that teach people how to kill" line is a huge red flag for me, coming as it is from someone who could be President. Trump is a loudmouth blowhard, so I don't expect him to follow up on any of his goofy anti-game rhetoric, and alas, he didn't. I can see Biden taking it a lot further though.

As far as the rest of his point and the interview at large, I couldn't care less.
 
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35. Re: Joe Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 17:51  Sepharo 
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 17:48:
Actually, I was simply referring to the quote clip provided by Blue -- which is what my original post was predicated on. However, on that subject, here is a fuller quote from Biden:
No, Ive never been a fan of Facebook, as you probably know. Ive never been a big Zuckerberg fan. I think hes a real problem. I think he knows better. And you know, from my perspective, Ive been in the view that not only should we be worrying about the concentration of power, we should be worried about the lack of privacy and them being exempt, which youre not exempt. [The Times] cant write something you know to be false and be exempt from being sued. But he can. The idea that its a tech company is that Section 230 should be revoked, immediately should be revoked, number one. For Zuckerberg and other platforms.
Either Biden or his comment is confused, because he seems to be talking about Zuckerburg writing false statements. If section 230 is accurately portrayed as about the site not being responsible for anyone's comments on the site. Obviously those are two separate things. So, I agree Zuckerburg should be responsible for his comments. I think holding Facebook responsible for what anyone said on the site is essentially unenforceable, and hence meaningless. The consequences of attempting to do that would be a waste of time and effort. I mean, yeah. you might technically get "legitimate" sites to turn into censorship machines, but it will simply move to sites the government will have a much harder time doing anything about. I suspect if Biden sat down with someone who could explain the reality of the situation, he would probably agree.

Revoking 230 is what that entire part of the interview is about and what Blue's post is about.
 
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34. Re: Joe Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 17:48  Mr. Tact 
 
Actually, I was simply referring to the quote clip provided by Blue -- which is what my original post was predicated on. However, on that subject, here is a fuller quote from Biden:
No, Ive never been a fan of Facebook, as you probably know. Ive never been a big Zuckerberg fan. I think hes a real problem. I think he knows better. And you know, from my perspective, Ive been in the view that not only should we be worrying about the concentration of power, we should be worried about the lack of privacy and them being exempt, which youre not exempt. [The Times] cant write something you know to be false and be exempt from being sued. But he can. The idea that its a tech company is that Section 230 should be revoked, immediately should be revoked, number one. For Zuckerberg and other platforms.
Either Biden or his comment is confused, because he seems to be talking about Zuckerburg writing false statements. If section 230 is accurately portrayed as about the site not being responsible for anyone's comments on the site. Obviously those are two separate things. So, I agree Zuckerburg should be responsible for his comments. I think holding Facebook responsible for what anyone said on the site is essentially unenforceable, and hence meaningless. The consequences of attempting to do that would be a waste of time and effort. I mean, yeah. you might technically get "legitimate" sites to turn into censorship machines, but it will simply move to sites the government will have a much harder time doing anything about. I suspect if Biden sat down with someone who could explain the reality of the situation, he would probably agree.
 



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33. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 17:27  jdreyer 
 
Prez wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 13:17:
Thankfully Ole' Joe is one of the final dinosaurs in the political space who grew up in a time before videogames were a part of virtually every childhood to at least some degree. These antiquated, wrong-headed views will die with him and his ilk.

And Jdreyer, how can you possibly claim he was not speaking about videogames? He literally said:

... And at one point, one of the little creeps sitting around that table, who was a multi- close to a billionaire who told me he was an artist because he was able to come up with games to teach you how to kill people, you know the

CW: Like video games.

Yeah, video games. ...

I'm not sure how you can even try to spin that as anything else.
He was talking about the guy that makes video games. Yes, I don't think he's a video game fan, but that's not the thrust of his rant. He's really pissed at the tech Bros, just like all of us.
 
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32. Re: Joe Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 17:21  Sepharo 
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 17:01:
First, I want to admit I did not read the article before posting. I was trusting Blue's clip, my bad. Second, I wouldn't fault many people for not reading it. I lean left and have a subscription to the NYT website and it was tough for me to get through. Third and most importantly, I think my original post is still valid.
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 17, 2020, 21:25:
There is so much I want to say, but it just isn't worth it. I'll stick to this -- Joe, when you don't understand the subject just keep your damn mouth shut. *sigh*
Now, in this specific case when the full context is known, what he said was in fact reasonable. Unfortunately, he has and likely will again say a thing or two which are not. C'est la vie.

You think it's reasonable to revoke Section 230?
And with his pretty unrelated contention that video games aren't art?
 
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31. Re: Joe Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 17:01  Mr. Tact 
 
First, I want to admit I did not read the article before posting. I was trusting Blue's clip, my bad. Second, I wouldn't fault many people for not reading it. I lean left and have a subscription to the NYT website and it was tough for me to get through. Third and most importantly, I think my original post is still valid.
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 17, 2020, 21:25:
There is so much I want to say, but it just isn't worth it. I'll stick to this -- Joe, when you don't understand the subject just keep your damn mouth shut. *sigh*
Now, in this specific case when the full context is known, what he said was in fact reasonable. Unfortunately, he has and likely will again say a thing or two which are not. C'est la vie.
 



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30. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 16:25 WannaLogAlready
 

RedEye9 said,

"No one here has bothered to click the link, much less read it. typical"

I resent the "typical", stop saying the truth, you !

 
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29. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 15:32 Alamar
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 07:15:
and immedately assumed that Biden called all gamers "creeps, righteous and arrogant".

I mean... Just look at the regular posters at Blues...
 
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28. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 15:07  Sepharo 
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 06:28:
You guys are focusing on the wrong things. He's not really speaking directly against video games, but against all the arrogant tech-bros that all of you rail against constantly: Zuck, Cook, Nadella, Kotick, Riccitello, all those douchebags.

Yeah but while doing so he threw a barb in the "videogames are not art" vein.
Apparently one of these execs said something like, "our output is art" or "we're artists" and Biden was like, "Oh yeah killing games are art...suurrree" and now includes that anecdote when he talks to people about the legislation on holding providers liable for user uploads/behavior failing.

This comment was edited on Jan 18, 2020, 17:27.
 
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27. Re: Joe Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 13:23 Nate
 
Biden is just trying to extract money from the online businesses this would impact.

Here is this horrible thing I'm proposing that will drastically hurt your business. What do you know, a little campaign contribution and I've totally rethought my idea.
 
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26. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 13:17  Prez 
 
Thankfully Ole' Joe is one of the final dinosaurs in the political space who grew up in a time before videogames were a part of virtually every childhood to at least some degree. These antiquated, wrong-headed views will die with him and his ilk.

And Jdreyer, how can you possibly claim he was not speaking about videogames? He literally said:

... And at one point, one of the little creeps sitting around that table, who was a multi- close to a billionaire who told me he was an artist because he was able to come up with games to teach you how to kill people, you know the

CW: Like video games.

Yeah, video games. ...

I'm not sure how you can even try to spin that as anything else.

This comment was edited on Jan 18, 2020, 13:29.
 
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25. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 12:03 Heymelon
 
You mean Bernie is. Yang want's to fool with 1000$ while taking back all your social security and security nets.  
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24. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 11:12  Mr. Tact 
 
wrlwnd wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 10:27:
Well, since this thread has gone totally political, I may as well add my two cents.
In everyone's (including mine) defense, the story started out as political. There isn't a non-political reason for Biden to speak out on this. So -- *meh* whatca' ya' gonna do?
 



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23. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 10:27 wrlwnd
 
Well, since this thread has gone totally political, I may as well add my two cents.

Trump is the worst president ever, and yet he's going to get re-elected because the Dumbocrats have lost their collective minds. Apparently you have to be 70+ to be a moderate and if you're young you need to be hard left. Neither of which is good for a general election.

It's as plain as day that the current trajectory will lead to another Trump victory and the Dumbs are on rails they can't deviate from. And what's funny about that is if you go to a site like Democratic Underground they don't even talk about it. They just keep putting up article after article about how dumb / evil Trump is.

One thing about the Republicans - they don't eat their own the way the Dumbs insist on doing. SMH.
 
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22. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 09:57  Simon Says 
 
Avus wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 08:54:
Andrew Yang is Dem's only hope but too bad the general public see him as nothing.

No he isn't, Yang's taking corporate PAC money.

The only 2 who aren't are Gabbard and Sanders.

All the rest are corrupt to the bone, wanting to keep money/bribes into politics. That the average US citizen can't see that is beyond me as a non-US citizen. It's as plain to see as the sky is blue for the rest of the world.

*****

As for Biden, he should stop yelling at clouds.
 
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21. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 08:54 Avus
 
Andrew Yang is Dem's only hope but too bad the general public see him as nothing.  
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20. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 08:03 roguebanshee
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 07:15:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 06:28:
You guys are focusing on the wrong things. He's not really speaking directly against video games, but against all the arrogant tech-bros that all of you rail against constantly: Zuck, Cook, Nadella, Kotick, Riccitello, all those douchebags. The Leahy thing is actually countering Trump's claim that games cause mass shooting.
No one here has bothered to click the link, much less read it typical
It seems as if at least a couple of posters read less than half the words of the excerpt and immedately assumed that Biden called all gamers "creeps, righteous and arrogant".
 
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19. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 07:15  RedEye9 
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 18, 2020, 06:28:
You guys are focusing on the wrong things. He's not really speaking directly against video games, but against all the arrogant tech-bros that all of you rail against constantly: Zuck, Cook, Nadella, Kotick, Riccitello, all those douchebags. The Leahy thing is actually countering Trump's claim that games cause mass shooting.
No one here has bothered to click the link, much less read it. typical

This comment was edited on Jan 18, 2020, 10:40.
 
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18. Re: Job Biden on CDA and Video Games Jan 18, 2020, 07:03 Jonjonz
 
Poor Joe and the Dems in general, they still have not caught on that they are irrelevant now.

It took 20 years or so, but the right finally succeeded in driving a wedge between the Dems and their base, turning the working man into red necks and knownothings. Even the Dems bought it and now look down their noses at the great mass of mouth breathers and ignorant clods that watch Faux News because it appeals to their feelings and not those pesky sometimes hard to understand facts.

The Dems now are just the lowest paid actors in the scripted reality TV called Washington D.C. Think of them as today's Cliff Barnes from Dallas.

\
 
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