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Out of the Blue

Following the age-old adage of never putting off until tomorrow what you can put off until the next day, I forestalled switching to Windows 10 for as long as possible. But inspired by yesterday's actual EOL for Windows 7 I decided it was time to make the move. The motivation for this was compounded by the fact that my system has been failing to install various updates over the past several months anyway, so I was only getting partial support for my OS while it was still being supported. I had concerns that whatever was causing this problem might impede my upgrade. Sure enough, trying to upgrade to Win10 cranks along until the first reboot, at which point it fails and reverts back to Win7. Here's the error message I receive: "0x8007001F-0x20006 The installation failed in the SAFE_OS phase with an error during REPLICATE_OC operation." The good news is that there is plenty of advice on the internet on how to fix this, starting with deleting third-party antivirus software all the way through using third-party tweak utilities. The bad news is that none of these have helped me so far. So after trying the upgrade about a dozen times I put this aside. So this morning I had a message from Windows Update saying a new update would apply the next time I rebooted, so hopeful that it would actually resolve itself, I tried that. And proving things can always get worse this resulted in a BSOD. This persisted through a few reboots, but, thankfully, shutting down entirely and starting my system worked. As part of this process I tried using my Win7 install disc to repair my install, but that does not seem to offer this option as expected, it just wants to go ahead and do an install. I assume this is because this is an installer specifically "Intended for distribution with a refurbished PC." Anyway, I will probably just let it go ahead and do a fresh reinstall so I can get the Win10 upgrade going. The good news there is that more and more of one's data and settings are in the cloud and proper backups these days, so it should be easier to get back to where I want to be than if this was 20 years ago. But it's still a pain, to say the least, so wish me luck. Thanks in advance for the inevitable suggestions that I install Linux. =]

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42. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 19, 2020, 18:10  Ant 
 
Bah. W7 4ever.  
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41. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 16, 2020, 20:13 Caslon
 
I was forced into Windows 10 with a laptop purchase, My big rig windows 7 is in storage, After using tweaks to make Windows 10 act like Windows 7, I may upgrade my stored Windows 7 rig to Windows 10. I know there are ways to keep Windows7 updated, but I may forget that and give in to Windows 10, now that I've gotten used to it on this laptop.  
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40. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 16, 2020, 16:21  Mr. Tact 
 
MattyC wrote on Jan 16, 2020, 14:05:
10 is actually a pretty decent OS. It just has a lot of crap bundled with it. If you want to really dig all that stuff out let me know and I could point you in the right direction. For most people though, just do not use a Microsoft sign when you setup your user. You can have a local login. Say no to all telemetry options, don't use Edge.

After all that, it is relatively benign. That will still leave forced updates on. If you are pro you can just turn this off, enterprise you can disable it with rules, on Home etc you can still do it, but it requires reg-work.
As I understand it with Pro you can delay for up to six months, but then you have no choice. But at least other than that you can stopped the forced updates. As far as I know enterprise is as difficult to get as the LTSC. I'll gladly take links for trimming Win10, DM me if you prefer.
 



Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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39. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 16, 2020, 14:05 MattyC
 
10 is actually a pretty decent OS. It just has a lot of crap bundled with it. If you want to really dig all that stuff out let me know and I could point you in the right direction. For most people though, just do not use a Microsoft sign when you setup your user. You can have a local login. Say no to all telemetry options, don't use Edge.

After all that, it is relatively benign. That will still leave forced updates on. If you are pro you can just turn this off, enterprise you can disable it with rules, on Home etc you can still do it, but it requires reg-work.

As for your current predicament, IIRC you can just go here and download the Windows Media Creation Tool. You will get the option to select what you are going to install and you should also get an option for your current key. This will let you create a DVD or USB installer and get you up and running in 10.

If something goes wrong and you get the wrong version - fear not! One of the things they really improved in 10 is installs and upgrades. You can sit and use all of 10, it won't have a time limit or anything. Just some "Windows is not activated" text. You can figure out what is going on with your key/upgrade on your schedule. Once you do sort that out, there is an option under update to change your key / version. Pop the key in there and you only need to reboot (it will be a long reboot) and when you load back up you will be activated and on the correct version for that key.
 
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38. Re: Out of the Blue Windows Upgrade Jan 16, 2020, 08:16  Mr. Tact 
 
Killes wrote on Jan 16, 2020, 02:13:
Blue, might I suggest Windows 10 LTSC (formerly LTSB, long term service branch) ?

It is basically a "enterprise" edition closer to Windows7, no Edge, Windows Store, Cortana, ads, etc. (but you can if you wish you can add these individually)
Where can an individual buy this? All I could find was it was available to large customers or from what seemed to me to be "shady" third party sites.
 



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37. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 16, 2020, 06:46 Jonjonz
 
You don't mention the age or the specs of this PC with Win7 on it.

Trying to install/upgrade to the latest and greatest from MS is always a nightmare on any iron more than 5 years old, unless you enjoy days of failed attempts, searching obscure driver boards for solutions, and not having the use of your system for extended periods.

In my experience any PC older than 5 years is highly suspect and should be relegated to either the recycle bin or to a simple role such as a one purpose Linux based file or media server.

 
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"Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss." - The Who.
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36. Re: Out of the Blue Windows Upgrade Jan 16, 2020, 02:13 Killes
 
Blue, might I suggest Windows 10 LTSC (formerly LTSB, long term service branch) ?

It is basically a "enterprise" edition closer to Windows7, no Edge, Windows Store, Cortana, ads, etc. (but you can if you wish you can add these individually)

You can turn off telemetry having much more powerfull group policy controls.

Complete control over updates, how they are delivered etc, no forced updates. The updates are only security updates, no "feature" updates (aka MS pushing crap you did not ask for on you)

Start Menu can be properly customised, other nifty encryption features, Linux subsystem for Windows, Windows to Go live disk creator, and so on, proper power user stuff for those of us born in the golden days ;-)

The slightly annoying parts is it will require a fresh install, there is no update path from Win7 to Win10 LTSC (I love me a fresh install personally), and if you want to be above board a license will need to be purchased from a 3rd party as MS does not sell them direct to users but only to companies (so there are companies reselling them on various platforms like ebay)

Now word of caution, Microsoft is actively spreading FUD on public channels about it to discourage widespread user adoption, as it goes completely against the rent you Software as a Service, user data hoarding strategy they have unfortunately adopted like so many others. I would google in the direction of LTSB / LTSC for power users, gaming and read up experiences on PC enthusiast forums for further digging in.
 
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35. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 16, 2020, 00:46 WannaLogAlready
 
Yep, 1badmf, the free win7/8/8.1=>win10 still works perfectly (well, at least it did the 14 of january),

If your win 7 installation is valid/activated, just download the media creation tool from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10, and run it.

Once finished, verify your Windows 10 activation from Settings > Windows Update > Activation.
If you weren´t kicked out half-way, you know the activation is ok.

(A 4th system, my Ex´s laptop with Win 8.1, wasn´t activated, we didn´t know, so the update stopped running early, advising us of that failure).

 
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34. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 16, 2020, 00:04 1badmf
 
not sure of your upgrade route, but apparently that free win7/8/8.1=>win10 free upgrade dealy from a couple years ago still works. odd how i read an article about that today, and here's blue doing that precise upgrade.  
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33. Re: Win 10 upgrade Jan 15, 2020, 23:32 WannaLogAlready
 

Best of luck Blue !

Updated 3 Windows 7 Pro PCs to Windows 10 in a day.
One new, one old, one really old.

No problems at all.

Using W10, liked some things, hated some others (that it hides users folders previously visible, a la AppData in W7, can´t find how to change the color of the taskbar except to a few predetermined, etc).

New OS install teething problems as usual.
 
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32. Re: Win 10 upgrade Jan 15, 2020, 18:15  RedEye9 
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 18:09:
The Flying Penguin wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 17:54:
I personally run it on all my mission critical drives once every 6 months to "refresh" them and force the drive to swap out weak sectors.
That's a thing with SSDs?
‘Twas a thing with the Samsung 840 EVO and they released a couple of fixes. I don’t think they ever patched the plain 840 - the 840 PRO didn’t have the issue.

I have used (can’t remember name - when I find it I will update the post) to refresh the cells on sluggish 840 EVOssd’s to restore performance before Samsung released a patch that basically does the same thing.

This is not the same as TRIM or trash
collection.

Update
DiskFresh
http://www.puransoftware.com/DiskFresh.html
This comment was edited on Jan 15, 2020, 22:23.
 
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31. Re: Win 10 upgrade Jan 15, 2020, 18:09  RedEye9 
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 17:54:
The Flying Penguin wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 13:38:
Blue, it sounds to me like you may have bad sectors on that drive. That would explain why Windows updates aren't working properly as well. I'd run Spinrite level 4 on it if it's a HDD, or Level 2 if it's an SSD.

If it's more than 5 years old, I'd replace the drive and keep the old one as a backup archive.

RedEye9 wrote:
Read about it but never used it. Was not sure if snake oil or not. https://www.grc.com/srdocs.htm
Interesting reading. Not paying $90 to scan a drive when a new drive is $90. But I still like the idea of what Steve Gibson does.
He’s where I first learned about the Iomega click of death and used that knowledge to help customers years later.
/end RedEye9 write

Been using it going on 20 years. Definitely works if you understand how it works and what it does. After 15 years I bought another 3 licenses to legally have a site license, as I used it for myself and customers.

I've revived near-dead drives, even SSDs, long enough to clone them. Saved my bacon many times, and I've made many a client happy when I've recovered their only copy of their data.

I personally run it on all my mission critical drives once every 6 months to "refresh" them and force the drive to swap out weak sectors.

Only problems is that it won't boot under UEFI, and it's very slow due to relying on ancient BIOS calls. But Steve is working on updating it to a new boot environment that will also take full advantage of modern data transfer speeds. That'll be a free upgrade for any licensed owner. Been waiting impatiently for it while he's been finishing up his work on SQRL.
Thanks for your recommendation and further explanation. Thumbsup
 
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30. Re: Win 10 upgrade Jan 15, 2020, 18:09  Mr. Tact 
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 17:54:
I personally run it on all my mission critical drives once every 6 months to "refresh" them and force the drive to swap out weak sectors.
That's a thing with SSDs?
 



Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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29. Re: Win 10 upgrade Jan 15, 2020, 17:54  The Flying Penguin 
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 13:38:
Blue, it sounds to me like you may have bad sectors on that drive. That would explain why Windows updates aren't working properly as well. I'd run Spinrite level 4 on it if it's a HDD, or Level 2 if it's an SSD.

If it's more than 5 years old, I'd replace the drive and keep the old one as a backup archive.

Read about it but never used it. Was not sure if snake oil or not. https://www.grc.com/srdocs.htm
Interesting reading. Not paying $90 to scan a drive when a new drive is $90. But I still like the idea of what Steve Gibson does.
He’s where I first learned about the Iomega click of death and used that knowledge to help customers years later.

Been using it going on 20 years. Definitely works if you understand how it works and what it does. After 15 years I bought another 3 licenses to legally have a site license, as I used it for myself and customers.

I've revived near-dead drives, even SSDs, long enough to clone them. Saved my bacon many times, and I've made many a client happy when I've recovered their only copy of their data.

I personally run it on all my mission critical drives once every 6 months to "refresh" them and force the drive to swap out weak sectors.

Only problems is that it won't boot under UEFI, and it's very slow due to relying on ancient BIOS calls. But Steve is working on updating it to a new boot environment that will also take full advantage of modern data transfer speeds. That'll be a free upgrade for any licensed owner. Been waiting impatiently for it while he's been finishing up his work on SQRL.
 
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28. Re: Sex delays menopause, study finds. Jan 15, 2020, 17:31 Cutter
 
Prez wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 12:20:
No wonder my ex went into menopause at 38.

Hi-o!
Biker
 
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27. Re: Sex delays menopause, study finds. Jan 15, 2020, 15:28  Simon Says 
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 12:39:
Out of curiosity, how long does everyone here tend to keep their PC?

Used to be 4 years, then the i7-870 lasted 8. Probably gonna be the same story with the i7-8700.

i7-870 couldn't tolerate Win 10 well, I had DPC latency issues, so I re-installed Win7 until I got the i7-8700. I heard Sandy Bridge fares much better tho. But anything older than Sandy Bridge, you better upgrade your PC or stick to Windows 7/8.1.
 
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Jan 15, 2020, 14:07 eRe4s3r
 
Media Creation Tool
Make clean install medium on USB
Do disc error check first on the drive you want to use AND on the HDD or (SSD) you want to install to
then do clean install, delete all partitions, format new, and let W10 setup re-create partitions.

Use your W7 key (And only use the W10 version that you got a W7 key for (pro to pro, home to home, etc.)

If you use weird hardware, make sure you move some drivers ahead of time on the stick to reduce hassles... especially chipset drivers for the mainboard, W10 drivers obviously.

If that still fails you either have the (infamous) 1903 USB bug or your secure-boot setting in the BIOS is set wrong.

Also forget upgrading, that has a known failure rate of above 70% in my experience especially if your W7 suffers from the update catalogue corruption issue (which is probably what made your updates not work anymore..)
 
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25. Re: Win 10 upgrade Jan 15, 2020, 13:56  RedEye9 
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 13:38:
Blue, it sounds to me like you may have bad sectors on that drive. That would explain why Windows updates aren't working properly as well. I'd run Spinrite level 4 on it if it's a HDD, or Level 2 if it's an SSD.

If it's more than 5 years old, I'd replace the drive and keep the old one as a backup archive.
Read about it but never used it. Was not sure if snake oil or not. https://www.grc.com/srdocs.htm
Interesting reading. Not paying $90 to scan a drive when a new drive is $90. But I still like the idea of what Steve Gibson does.
He’s where I first learned about the Iomega click of death and used that knowledge to help customers years later.
 
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Vaccines Cause Immunity
Welcome to the Anthropocene
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24. Win 10 upgrade Jan 15, 2020, 13:38  The Flying Penguin 
 
Blue, it sounds to me like you may have bad sectors on that drive. That would explain why Windows updates aren't working properly as well. I'd run Spinrite level 4 on it if it's a HDD, or Level 2 if it's an SSD.

If it's more than 5 years old, I'd replace the drive and keep the old one as a backup archive.

Cheers.

Flying Penguin
 
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23. Re: Sex delays menopause, study finds. Jan 15, 2020, 13:23  Mr. Tact 
 
PHJF wrote on Jan 15, 2020, 12:58:
I’m still rocking windows 7 and will continue to until my programs stop working. It’s not broke, it doesn’t need fixing, and I haven’t had a BSOD in literally years.
Yeah, if I wasn't already overdue for an upgrade I'd probably let it ride longer.
 



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