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12. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 18:16 Mr. Tact
 
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 14:54:
No it's not an isolated case. Numerous studies have been conducted on this subject, consensus was overwhelming, personal copies, of any game, no matter it's popularity, translated to more sales, not less sales, and the "lost sales" were always lower than the sales gained from the process.
Personal copies? Is that what the cool kids are calling pirated software these days? If this idea was so obvious I guarantee devs could find ways to spread around a few free copies of their games...
 



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11. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 18:08 Beamer
 
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 15:54:
Beamer wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 15:50:
Good citations!

Hey, I wore a red jacket for the first time yesterday and it didn't rain. I suppose, then, there are numerous studies that prove that me wearing a red jacket prevents rain.

Rolleyes

You want me to provide citations too for gravity, how about climate change? Sphere earth?

I used to 10 years ago, if you haven't got up to speed in 10 years, mommy's not gonna breastfeed you, you're a big boy now, act like it. *winks*

So, these studies you're claiming don't exist, they're just anecdotes from tiny devs that have 12 reviews for which literally anything to get someone mentioning them is beneficial.

Gotcha. That's what I thought. It's not applicable to products nearly everyone in the target audience knows exists.
 



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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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10. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 17:48 RedEye9
 
Korrd wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 17:35:
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 14:54:
Numerous studies have been conducted on this subject, consensus was overwhelming, personal copies, of any game, no matter it's popularity, translated to more sales
Google failed to yield useful results, so if you have links to those studies or the proposed consensus I'd very much like to see them. I don't want to just pile on, but it does seem a quite dubious claim; I rather suspect that whatever the benefits--even if consistent and reliable--for indie games, it wouldn't translate well at all to AAA games for a variety of reasons.

There is the one E.U. study that has now become “multiple studies”. Link includes link to the pdf.
 
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Vaccines Cause Immunity
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9. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 17:35 Korrd
 
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 14:54:
Numerous studies have been conducted on this subject, consensus was overwhelming, personal copies, of any game, no matter it's popularity, translated to more sales
Google failed to yield useful results, so if you have links to those studies or the proposed consensus I'd very much like to see them. I don't want to just pile on, but it does seem a quite dubious claim; I rather suspect that whatever the benefits--even if consistent and reliable--for indie games, it wouldn't translate well at all to AAA games for a variety of reasons.
 
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8. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 15:59 Dirwulf
 
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 15:54:

You want me to provide citations too for gravity, how about climate change? Sphere earth?

I used to 10 years ago, if you haven't got up to speed in 10 years, mommy's not gonna breastfeed you, you're a big boy now, act like it. *winks*

The onus of proof is on the person making the claim. It's a logical fallacy for us to prove your claim. So where is your proof?
 
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7. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 15:54 Simon Says
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 15:50:
Good citations!

Hey, I wore a red jacket for the first time yesterday and it didn't rain. I suppose, then, there are numerous studies that prove that me wearing a red jacket prevents rain.

Rolleyes

You want me to provide citations too for gravity, how about climate change? Sphere earth?

I used to 10 years ago, if you haven't got up to speed in 10 years, mommy's not gonna breastfeed you, you're a big boy now, act like it. *winks*
 
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6. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 15:50 Beamer
 
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 14:54:
Beamer wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:29:
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:14:
Queue publishers in deep denial:

"BUT MUH LOST SALES!"

Think a bit harder here.

( ... )

How do you think this applies to AAA titles?

No it's not an isolated case. Numerous studies have been conducted on this subject, consensus was overwhelming, personal copies, of any game, no matter it's popularity, translated to more sales, not less sales, and the "lost sales" were always lower than the sales gained from the process.

This has been a case closed for more than a decade, I wonder why people would still argue otherwise.

Good citations!

Hey, I wore a red jacket for the first time yesterday and it didn't rain. I suppose, then, there are numerous studies that prove that me wearing a red jacket prevents rain.
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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5. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 15:09 jdreyer
 
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:14:
Queue publishers in deep denial:

"BUT MUH LOST SALES!"

This trick won't work a second time, though.
 
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"I survived the 2020 removedpocalypse."
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4. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 14:54 Simon Says
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:29:
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:14:
Queue publishers in deep denial:

"BUT MUH LOST SALES!"

Think a bit harder here.

( ... )

How do you think this applies to AAA titles?

No it's not an isolated case. Numerous studies have been conducted on this subject, consensus was overwhelming, personal copies, of any game, no matter it's popularity, translated to more sales, not less sales, and the "lost sales" were always lower than the sales gained from the process.

This has been a case closed for more than a decade, I wonder why people would still argue otherwise.
 
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3. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 12:57 RedEye9
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:29:
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:14:
Queue publishers in deep denial:"BUT MUH LOST SALES!"
Think a bit harder here.
I mean, the game has 12 total reviews.
Thanks, I shot coffee out my nose.Checked and sure enough, Steam shows 12 positive reviews.My guess is that will be at least 1 more than posts in this thread.
 
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Vaccines Cause Immunity
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2. Re: Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 12:29 Beamer
 
Simon Says wrote on Jan 14, 2020, 12:14:
Queue publishers in deep denial:

"BUT MUH LOST SALES!"

Think a bit harder here.

You've got a tiny game no one has ever heard of. It's not really getting many sales, because it has no marketing campaign, no PR campaign, and no one is talking about it.

So they release a free version, very publicly claiming they're gifting this. That gets a few people downloading it, because it's free, and gets them talking about it, because the dev giving it away for free is an interesting hook and kind of a cool novelty.

Now the game has some word of mouth, and it has players. It goes up 400%, which could be from 1 sale to 5 sales. I mean, the game has 12 total reviews.


How do you think this applies to AAA titles? Do you think that Far Cry 5, or Destiny, or whichever AAA title you liked best in the last year or three, all of which had a marketing budget in the tens of millions, would suddenly do better if it just released a free version? Do you think it would have made more money? They'd lose the novelty of "hi, I'm releasing this free so that people talk about it, if you like it, please consider buying it." They wouldn't get more word of mouth, because they're paying for word of mouth. And while some people were willing to vote with their dollars at $9.99, how many do it at $59.99?
 



-------------
Music for the discerning:
http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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1. Dev says game started selling 400% better on Steam after releasing torrent Jan 14, 2020, 12:14 Simon Says
 

Queue publishers in deep denial:

"BUT MUH LOST SALES!"
 
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