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30. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 10, 2020, 15:00 Sepharo
 
afka Rossini wrote on Jan 10, 2020, 09:54:
Whatever happened to "Walk softly and carry a big stick."? Wouldn't a better tweet have been a low key announcement we killed some Iraqi terrorist leaders. Then when it came out Soleimani perished in that attack we could have been like "Oh my! Our bad. BTW what on earth was an Iranian General doing talking to terrorists Iraq?" Whatever

Because that's not how it went down. We got him to fly to Iraq via a ruse that Saudi Arabia wanted Iraq to mediate between Iran and U.S.
He arrived at the airport, and joined up with an Iraqi general... and then as they left we bombed them both.
 
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29. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 10, 2020, 10:03 MattyC
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 10, 2020, 05:46:
NKD wrote on Jan 10, 2020, 05:03:
I'm starting to wonder if armed military drones shouldn't be banned. Not that the US actually cares about international law. It really lowers the risk factor on killing people and lowers the bar for when assassinations are used. I feel like if it's not important enough to risk pilots and planes, or a special forces team on the ground, it's not important enough to kill someone.

Thing is, you'll never get the Chinese to agree to that, so you'll be hamstringing yourself.

Well, ultimately the majority of nations are going to get drone strike capabilities, doesn't matter if we want that or not. Right now we have some small ability to set precedent, and this is the kind of thing we are doing.

If we waste the opportunity, which we already in many ways have, I doubt that other countries are going to think twice about doing exactly what we have done with drones. Why would they? It would be the expected international standard.

EDIT: would BE, I am disgusted with myself

This comment was edited on Jan 10, 2020, 12:48.
 
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28. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 10, 2020, 09:54 afka Rossini
 
Whatever happened to "Walk softly and carry a big stick."? Wouldn't a better tweet have been a low key announcement we killed some Iraqi terrorist leaders. Then when it came out Soleimani perished in that attack we could have been like "Oh my! Our bad. BTW what on earth was an Iranian General doing talking to terrorists Iraq?" Whatever


 
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27. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 10, 2020, 08:00 Nimh
 
NKD wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 11:24:
I'd like to thank whatever adult was in the room and managed to convince Trump to de-escalate something for the first time in his life instead of doubling and tripling and quadrupling down. I'm sure it was a Herculean effort.

Isn't that his shtick though? Goes from "little rocket man.." to a presidential visit to North Korea. Shock and awe, reality tv style.
 
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26. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 10, 2020, 07:37 RedEye9
 
NKD wrote on Jan 10, 2020, 05:03:
I'm starting to wonder if armed military drones shouldn't be banned. Not that the US actually cares about international law. It really lowers the risk factor on killing people and lowers the bar for when assassinations are used. I feel like if it's not important enough to risk pilots and planes, or a special forces team on the ground, it's not important enough to kill someone.
The USA would never agree to that. Whether some cadet is squeezing an Xbox controller in an air conditioned trailer on a base in Nevada or a sailor is pushing a button sending a tomahawk soaring towards a wedding.

From nukes to conventional weapons, killing innocent civilians is what we do best.
 
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25. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 10, 2020, 05:46 jdreyer
 
NKD wrote on Jan 10, 2020, 05:03:
I'm starting to wonder if armed military drones shouldn't be banned. Not that the US actually cares about international law. It really lowers the risk factor on killing people and lowers the bar for when assassinations are used. I feel like if it's not important enough to risk pilots and planes, or a special forces team on the ground, it's not important enough to kill someone.

Thing is, you'll never get the Chinese to agree to that, so you'll be hamstringing yourself.
 
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24. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 10, 2020, 05:03 NKD
 
I'm starting to wonder if armed military drones shouldn't be banned. Not that the US actually cares about international law. It really lowers the risk factor on killing people and lowers the bar for when assassinations are used. I feel like if it's not important enough to risk pilots and planes, or a special forces team on the ground, it's not important enough to kill someone.  
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23. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 10, 2020, 03:07 MattyC
 
Sepharo wrote on Jan 10, 2020, 02:37:
Bodolza wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:41:
Drath71 wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:14:
If Obama had done it, the media and libs would be gushing over his bravery and how many lives he saved, and had every right.

Then you've got a short memory. Obama ordered plenty of drone strikes, and they were very controversial at the time from both sides. Of course, the same Repubs that attacked Obama's strikes are supporting Trump, but that's no surprise to anyone at this point. We all know they have no actual moral standards.

None of those drone strikes targeted the general of a recognized nation, let alone one so high up in the leadership.

^ Winner. I didn't support any strikes, but this is the first one that was basically an act of war against a sovereign nation. That is the difference and it is a pretty big one.
 
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22. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 10, 2020, 02:37 Sepharo
 
Bodolza wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:41:
Drath71 wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:14:
If Obama had done it, the media and libs would be gushing over his bravery and how many lives he saved, and had every right.

Then you've got a short memory. Obama ordered plenty of drone strikes, and they were very controversial at the time from both sides. Of course, the same Repubs that attacked Obama's strikes are supporting Trump, but that's no surprise to anyone at this point. We all know they have no actual moral standards.

None of those drone strikes targeted the general of a recognized nation, let alone one so high up in the leadership.
Obama did target an American citizen who had joined the terrorists. And a few weeks later his 16 year old son. And more recently Trump got his 8 year old daughter.
The drone attacks that started under Bush, expanded greatly under Obama, have exploded under Trump, but he discontinued the policy of releasing the numbers... and needing presidential approval.
A lot of innocent people have been killed as bystanders and mistakes.
 
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21. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 10, 2020, 00:20 Korrd
 
Ozmodan wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 16:46:
I have friends who are staunch conservatives and others that are the complete opposite, funny how they mostly want the same thing. Shame we can't have better discourse in this country without all the finger-pointing.
I think if you break subjects down to their most basic foundations you'll find people on both sides a lot more reasonable. It's when we resort to demonizing people on the other side and relying on talking points that things go to shit.
 
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20. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 9, 2020, 23:04 bigspender
 
NKD wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 11:24:
I'd like to thank whatever adult was in the room and managed to convince Trump to de-escalate something for the first time in his life instead of doubling and tripling and quadrupling down. I'm sure it was a Herculean effort.

I dunno, I feel like the one thing Trump is good at is starting conflicts, so it's kinda weird that he's failed at that too lol
 



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19. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 9, 2020, 22:26 jdreyer
 
NKD wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:28:
A removedpocalypse!
am
I admit I Lol'd that.
 
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18. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 9, 2020, 21:21 Beamer
 
Bodolza wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:41:
Drath71 wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:14:
If Obama had done it, the media and libs would be gushing over his bravery and how many lives he saved, and had every right.

Then you've got a short memory. Obama ordered plenty of drone strikes, and they were very controversial at the time from both sides. Of course, the same Repubs that attacked Obama's strikes are supporting Trump, but that's no surprise to anyone at this point. We all know they have no actual moral standards.

He deserved more shit from both sides. It took us too long to really know, too.
 



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17. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 9, 2020, 19:41 Bodolza
 
Drath71 wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:14:
If Obama had done it, the media and libs would be gushing over his bravery and how many lives he saved, and had every right.

Then you've got a short memory. Obama ordered plenty of drone strikes, and they were very controversial at the time from both sides. Of course, the same Repubs that attacked Obama's strikes are supporting Trump, but that's no surprise to anyone at this point. We all know they have no actual moral standards.
 
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16. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 9, 2020, 19:31 RedEye9
 
Drath71 wrote on Jan 9, 2020, 19:14:
Obviously, Trump is irrational and deserves no credit here. ...

Thank you!

The house is working on reigning him in.
War Is Just Terrorism With Better Funding.
 
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15. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 9, 2020, 19:28 NKD
 
A removedpocalypse!  
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14. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 9, 2020, 19:19 Beamer
 
Obama never took out a foreign government official inside another foreign country.

Iran declared the US military a terrorist organization. If they take out Mike Pompeo in Canada, would people be ok with that?
 



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13. Re: Saturday Safety Dance Jan 9, 2020, 19:14 Drath71
 
Obviously, Trump is irrational and deserves no credit here. If Obama had done it, the media and libs would be gushing over his bravery and how many lives he saved, and had every right.
Haters gonna hate, since they have nothing useful to contribute.
 
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12. Re: Morning Metaverse Jan 9, 2020, 19:06 jdreyer
 
Jeez someone bled all over this thread.

Soleimani pushed his luck and got pinched. Over the past 15 years, Bush, Obama, and the Israelis all considered taking the guy out. That said, it definitely sets a bad precedent to whack leaders of foreign countries, and I think this action was pretty reckless on Trump's part. That said, this guy was responsible for thousands of deaths over the years, including Americans during the Iraq war, so no tears shed.
 
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11. removed Jan 9, 2020, 17:16 Beamer
 
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This comment was deleted on Jan 9, 2020, 17:32.
 



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