Out of the Blue

Today will be one of those oddball news days, as The Game Awards will kick off at 8:30 pm EST. So along with the chance to see if Geoff Keighley's Death Stranding (featuring Hideo Kojima) takes home all the awards, there will be a bunch of announcements much later than usual.

Links: Thanks Ant.
Stories: Final full 'Cold Moon' of the decade will reach its peak on 12/12 at 12:12 EST.
They survived New Zealand's volcano eruption, then went back to rescue others. Thanks Kxmode.
Quentin Tarantino Teases Kill Bill Vol. 3 is in the Cards.
Science: Larry Page is quietly funding efforts to develop a universal flu vaccine. Thanks Neutronbeam.
NASA finds water ice just below the surface of Mars.
Images: We all know who really should have been TIME Person of the Year.
Earliest known cave art by modern humans found in Indonesia. Thanks Acleacius.
Media: Curb Your Enthusiasm: Season 10 - Official Trailer. NSFW.
Star Wars Animals "The Trench Run."
See man rescue dog after its leash got stuck in elevator. Thanks Acleacius. #hero
View : : :
50 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  3  ] Older
50.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 17, 2019, 18:49
50.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 17, 2019, 18:49
Dec 17, 2019, 18:49
 
ventry wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 22:09:
Mr. Tact wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 21:45:
Interesting... proportional electoral colleges voting (takes 270 to win):

Have you ever considered this map from 2016:

https://imgur.com/XtaIQ82

It shows the 2016 US election broken up into i believe the US calls them counties.
Under the AU system each one of those is a seat and Trump wins in a landslide because the majority of them are red regardless of the population of those counties and I know the US system is a lot different to our "Westminster" system.
When I saw that map it left no doubt in my mind who won the Presidency.
Anyways I have got shit to do.

Yeah, you see all that red? That is where there is more dirt than people. You see all that blue? That's where there are more people than dirt.

Why do you hate people and are against one person's vote mattering more than another persons? I guarantee you that you would not be so "principled" if the shoe was on the other foot and it was conservatives that lived in the dense population centers and liberals that lived in rural areas.

You just never answered the question of why the problem of "tyranny of the majority" should be offset by tyranny of the minority. That's what conservatives are in modern America. The minority.

We've been seeing this for a while now ever since it became clear that the actual majority wants liberal policies. According to conservatives, certain votes just don't matter. We've heard the idea floated by conservatives numerous times that only land owners should be allowed to vote.

It wouldn't be so bad, if conservatives weren't so blatantly hypocritical of this stuff. In their "defense" against impeachment, conservatives keep trying to paint the picture that liberals are trying to undo the will of the people. The will of the people said they wanted someone other than Trump (or neither depending on how you look at it)

You just can't square the round hole of right wing hypocrisy. Even Trump wanted the Electoral college gone when he thought Romney won the popular vote. Suddenly when the electoral college swung his way (by only 70K votes btw) he now loves it. Weird how that works. McConnell says it's wrong to pick Supreme Court justice so close to an election when it's Obama's pick, Suddenly he seems to have no problem picking a justice when it might favor them. Again, weird how that works.
49.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 15, 2019, 19:41
49.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2019, 19:41
Dec 15, 2019, 19:41
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 15, 2019, 14:44:
2 wrongs don't make a right.
"... But it damn sure makes us even." -- Sister Souljah

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
48.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 15, 2019, 18:39
48.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2019, 18:39
Dec 15, 2019, 18:39
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 15, 2019, 18:18:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 15, 2019, 14:44:
jdreyer wrote on Dec 15, 2019, 14:33:
I was listening to a couple of British political scientists on the 538 podcast the other day, and they said the vote was less a Brexit vote, and more an anti- Jeremy Corbyn vote. Sounded like Labour really screwed the pooch with its leaders and platform.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
I was just making the point that it wasn't the main motivation for the Conservative win. People preferred "No-Corbyn" regardless of Brexit.
I caught what you were throwing. No matter how much of a shit for brains contestant the other side has you still have to put up a realistic workable player and platform.
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
Avatar 58135
47.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 15, 2019, 18:18
47.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2019, 18:18
Dec 15, 2019, 18:18
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 15, 2019, 14:44:
jdreyer wrote on Dec 15, 2019, 14:33:
I was listening to a couple of British political scientists on the 538 podcast the other day, and they said the vote was less a Brexit vote, and more an anti- Jeremy Corbyn vote. Sounded like Labour really screwed the pooch with its leaders and platform.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
I was just making the point that it wasn't the main motivation for the Conservative win. People preferred "No-Corbyn" regardless of Brexit.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
46.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 15, 2019, 14:44
46.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2019, 14:44
Dec 15, 2019, 14:44
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 15, 2019, 14:33:
I was listening to a couple of British political scientists on the 538 podcast the other day, and they said the vote was less a Brexit vote, and more an anti- Jeremy Corbyn vote. Sounded like Labour really screwed the pooch with its leaders and platform.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
Avatar 58135
45.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 15, 2019, 14:33
45.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 15, 2019, 14:33
Dec 15, 2019, 14:33
 
I was listening to a couple of British political scientists on the 538 podcast the other day, and they said the vote was less a Brexit vote, and more an anti- Jeremy Corbyn vote. Sounded like Labour really screwed the pooch with its leaders and platform.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
44.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 14, 2019, 15:33
44.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 14, 2019, 15:33
Dec 14, 2019, 15:33
 
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 14, 2019, 13:50:
So now the whole of the UK is threatened by borons moronic move.
Over the last 18 months or so, I've spent a lot of time playing attention to Brexit (especially considering I'm in the US). And from what I have read, seen and heard, if any single person deserves blame for Brexit, I'd say it was David Cameron. But of course there really is no single person who deserves to carry the entire weight of it. I personally doubt that Boris even thinks Brexit is a good idea. He thought he could use it to gain political power, so he did. He is a nationalist, bordering on being a racist. From his wiki page,
In April 2016, in an article for The Sun, in response to a comment by President Barack Obama that Britain should remain in the European Union, Johnson said that Obama's views may have been shaped by an "ancestral dislike" of Britain owing to his "part-Kenyan" background.
Boris' only interest is Boris. This is a big part of what makes him so "Trump-like".
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
43.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 14, 2019, 13:50
43.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 14, 2019, 13:50
Dec 14, 2019, 13:50
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 13:17:
Scotland is threatening independence...
Neither Scotland nor Ireland support Brexit and Scotland is demanding a vote on Independence.
So now the whole of the UK is threatened by borons moronic move.
This is what happens when clueless trolls get elected.
sigh
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
Avatar 58135
42.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 14, 2019, 09:11
42.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 14, 2019, 09:11
Dec 14, 2019, 09:11
 
ventry wrote on Dec 14, 2019, 01:13:
Where should that balance lie?
Therein lies the problem. It is the nature of the problem that it can not be in balance. Either
1) The rural areas have representation equal numerically to urban area's representation. In this case the rural minority has an oversized advantage compared to their population.
2) Representation is assigned corresponding to population. In this case rural areas would have a minority in representation.

Personally, I think option 2 is more appropriate. The important thing is as I said, people need to be reasonable. I think the people representing urban areas need to be cognizant of the fact rural areas are in a minority and deserve some consideration. Additionally, rural representatives need to realize they speak for a minority population, and consider what might be good for them might not be good for a majority of the population. So, it all comes down to people being reasonable. And unfortunately the world has a long history of politicians all around the world, not being reasonable.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
41.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 14, 2019, 02:24
41.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 14, 2019, 02:24
Dec 14, 2019, 02:24
 
ventry wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 21:32:
RedEye9 wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 21:23:
*snip*

Why don't you fuck off.
No one was talking to you.
I'm having a perfectly reasonable discussion with Mr Tact.

I now realize why you use the handle "RedEye".
It's because of all those liberal tears you're crying.
I got yer Redeye right here.
To prevent CV-19, avoid the Serious Seven: weddings, funerals, faith-based activities, bars, gyms, house gatherings and other small events.
Avatar 22024
40.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 14, 2019, 01:13
40.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 14, 2019, 01:13
Dec 14, 2019, 01:13
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 23:03:
Unfortunately, there isn't really a good solution. There is some validity to saying/thinking that all the people in rural areas don't want all the decisions being made for and/or by the those living in urban areas. But the flip side of that is giving oversized authority to a minority population. It is a bit of a conundrum... the hope would be reasonable people can come together to make reasonable decisions which give consideration to everyone. But it isn't easy, and it happens far too infrequently...

Don't worry. I find validity in your side of the discussion and who knows you may be right that the UK system is too heavily in favor of the "rural" side I haven't really dug into the nitty-gritty of that system either.
Where should that balance lie?
Everybody's opinion will be different.
However the current systems must be more equitable (my opinion only) to the people in rural areas than the "popular" vote can possibly be.
My prediction:
Joe Biden will come down with the Chinese Coof Coof so he won't have to debate Trump.
39.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 13, 2019, 23:03
39.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 13, 2019, 23:03
Dec 13, 2019, 23:03
 
Unfortunately, there isn't really a good solution. There is some validity to saying/thinking that all the people in rural areas don't want all the decisions being made for and/or by the those living in urban areas. But the flip side of that is giving oversized authority to a minority population. It is a bit of a conundrum... the hope would be reasonable people can come together to make reasonable decisions which give consideration to everyone. But it isn't easy, and it happens far too infrequently...
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
38.
 
removed
Dec 13, 2019, 22:58
38.
removed Dec 13, 2019, 22:58
Dec 13, 2019, 22:58
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Dec 14, 2019, 12:18.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
37.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 13, 2019, 22:54
37.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 13, 2019, 22:54
Dec 13, 2019, 22:54
 
Take a look at these maps

https://www.businessinsider.com/2016-election-results-maps-population-adjusted-cartogram-2016-11

Specifically, look at the fifth map down which resizes counties by population...

(Weird, could not put that link in a url code...)
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
36.
 
removed
Dec 13, 2019, 22:40
36.
removed Dec 13, 2019, 22:40
Dec 13, 2019, 22:40
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Dec 14, 2019, 12:18.
A mask is not a political statement. It's an IQ test.
Avatar 58135
35.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 13, 2019, 22:37
35.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 13, 2019, 22:37
Dec 13, 2019, 22:37
 
ventry wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 22:09:
Have you ever considered this map from 2016:

https://imgur.com/XtaIQ82

It shows the 2016 US election broken up into i believe the US calls them counties.
Yes, I have seen it. Yes, they are called counties. It is essentially, meaningless. As an example, Montana represents 4.71% of the land mass of the continental US, but only .32% of the population. ie... the map is distorted.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
34.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 13, 2019, 22:17
34.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 13, 2019, 22:17
Dec 13, 2019, 22:17
 
ventry wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 21:44:
Look in reality I can only really use Au as an example. I haven't done an extensive study into the US electoral system.
Here in Australia whoever wins the most seats wins the election regardless of the population of those seats. If it wasn't for that Sydney and Melbourne would decide for the country every time.
Sydney 20.93%
Melbourne 19.86%
the next closest to these two is
Brisbane 9.85%
Another thing to consider is we have compulsory voting here. You get fined if you don't.
So, it seems you are saying each area (which are clearly defined differently in the US, UK and Aus.) deserve an equal say. Would that be accurate? So, if you allow each area to be defined in a way which allows some areas to have a higher population than other areas. You are essentially saying the people in the higher population areas get less say per vote than the other areas.

If you break up all the areas to be equal populations (which is primarily how it is designed in the US) obviously New York City or Sydney are going to get more areas than less populous parts of the countries.

Neither of those seem completely "fair" (yeah, I know, ugly word). The US tried to solve this by doing both. The House is population based. The Senate is a straight two per state. I like the US way better than the UK way, but that isn't to say it is good, let alone great. There are very good reasons why they say, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
33.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 13, 2019, 22:09
33.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 13, 2019, 22:09
Dec 13, 2019, 22:09
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 21:45:
Interesting... proportional electoral colleges voting (takes 270 to win):

Have you ever considered this map from 2016:

https://imgur.com/XtaIQ82

It shows the 2016 US election broken up into i believe the US calls them counties.
Under the AU system each one of those is a seat and Trump wins in a landslide because the majority of them are red regardless of the population of those counties and I know the US system is a lot different to our "Westminster" system.
When I saw that map it left no doubt in my mind who won the Presidency.
Anyways I have got shit to do.
My prediction:
Joe Biden will come down with the Chinese Coof Coof so he won't have to debate Trump.
32.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 13, 2019, 21:57
32.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 13, 2019, 21:57
Dec 13, 2019, 21:57
 
You really aren't answering my question. You seem to be fine with a minority electorate getting majority control of the legislature/parliament -- but are opposed to the idea of a popular vote to elect a PM/President. Why is one okay and the other isn't?

Put it this way -- let's say your previous statement was correct (even though I've shown it isn't) -- that New York and California would decide any Presidential election because they constituted a majority of the population. You think that's bad. I admit I can understand why you might say that, and if it was true I might even partially agree with it. However, it seems to be incongruent of you to turn around and say it is fine for a minority to control the majority.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
31.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Dec 13, 2019, 21:48
31.
Re: Out of the Blue Dec 13, 2019, 21:48
Dec 13, 2019, 21:48
 
ventry wrote on Dec 13, 2019, 21:44:
Another thing to consider is we have compulsory voting here. You get fined if you don't.
I've never been certain how I feel about that idea. On the one hand I definitely feel more people voting is a good thing. But on the other hand, if someone is so disinterested they don't care to vote, I'm not sure I want them to.

This comment was edited on Dec 13, 2019, 21:59.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx
50 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  3  ] Older