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Out of the Blue

It seems the more the NFL does to try and clean up its officiating problems, the worse things get. The two illegal use of hands penalties in last night's game were pretty horrible, and had a direct impact on the game's outcome, which is particularly no bueno. I'd suggest they make this another of the penalties that's eligible for review, but the new rule allowing pass interference reviews has proven to be a giant nightmare, as the officials seem determined to avoid reversing any calls that are not as blatant as last year's blown call in the Saints game that inspired this rules change. It's a bad situation, so hopefully there's some way to address it.

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39. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 18, 2019, 10:04 Orogogus
 
Nofactor97 wrote on Oct 17, 2019, 18:41:
The climate is always changing . . . and according to scientific data has done this several times.

But lets say you are 100 percent right. We are the SOLE cause of the warming of the planet. Explain to me how you get every country on the planet to change their ways? You think most Americans want to sacrifice everything while all other third world countries striving for a better life fire the coal up?

It is utopian naivety to think that would happen.

The only two countries that really matter in the warming debate are the US and China. Russia and India are a somewhat distant third and fourth, and everyone else is small beans. The myth of third world countries and all their coal is an absurdity; they don't have steelmaking or heavy industry, and they're not all driving cars.

China's major problem is their population, and they've already committed atrocities to level that out. Per capita, the US is a much heavier polluter than the European or East Asian countries, on the order of 2-3 times, and invests less into cleaner/renewable energy, by 1.5-4.5 times. Somewhere between "what we're doing now" and "sitting around in the dark" is moving away from coal and petroleum, and cleaner, more efficient cars.
 
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38. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 17, 2019, 19:17 Beamer
 
Nofactor97 wrote on Oct 17, 2019, 18:41:
The climate is always changing . . . and according to scientific data has done this several times.

But lets say you are 100 percent right. We are the SOLE cause of the warming of the planet. Explain to me how you get every country on the planet to change their ways? You think most Americans want to sacrifice everything while all other third world countries striving for a better life fire the coal up?

It is utopian naivety to think that would happen.

Can't do everything so why do anything!

What a terrible philosophy.
 



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37. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 17, 2019, 18:41 Nofactor97
 
The climate is always changing . . . and according to scientific data has done this several times.

But lets say you are 100 percent right. We are the SOLE cause of the warming of the planet. Explain to me how you get every country on the planet to change their ways? You think most Americans want to sacrifice everything while all other third world countries striving for a better life fire the coal up?

It is utopian naivety to think that would happen.
 
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36. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 17, 2019, 18:36 Nofactor97
 
The graph on that site is 6 years old! And where was the graph showing the money spent to SUPPORT global warming/climate change? Oh wait, it didn't get published. . . due to irresponsible journalism.

How any of you trust the MMS at this point is beyond me. They have lost the trust of the populace as much as the political landscape has.
 
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35. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 16, 2019, 03:06 Kxmode
 
Cutter wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 18:54:
Kxmode wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 17:48:
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:54:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:37:
Only a Billion a year is spent on denying climate change. Furious2

"Climate Change". What kind of fucking term is that?

It used to be called "Global Warming" but of course that wasn't broad enough to try and get people on board with new science of world temperature. Climate tracking in +95% of the world has only been around 150 years which is a very very small sample size. England started mid 1600's but nothing was agreed upon in scales until around ~1720.

Is the temperature rising? Sure. Are people 100% responsible? Could be.. could not be. This could be part of natural cycles. I hate this fucking term of "Climate Change". The climate is ALWAYS changing.

Modeling software used to predict client change is only as good as the data it has to work with, as well as how well-written it is. I think making grandiose statements about fundamental changes to the climate from a data size of 150 years is irresponsible science when the earth is over four billion years old. The sample size is inadequate to provide accurate information. Also, applications are susceptible to human error.

Have scientists been able to retrieve weather records going further back from other sources or are they working in a vacuum on time?

Gosh, it's too bad they can't ascertain that sort of data from, oh I don't know...ice core samples and other geological data. Yeah, they're just making it all up to create work for themselves. There's just no possible way we can measure any of this stuff since the beginning of industrialization. And there's no such thing as carbon or methane. They're just made up too. In fact there's no such thing as gravity and the earth is flat and alchemy and phrenology are the only real science there is. Yeah it's all fiction, except for your invisible sky wizard of course.
Rolleyes

I'm just asking questions.
 
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William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 1: Aboard the rebel ship. / Enter C-3PO and R2-D2. / C-3PO: "Now is the summer of our happiness / Made winter by this sudden, fierce attack!" / R2-D2 — Beep beep, Beep, beep, meep, squeak, beep, whee!
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34. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 16, 2019, 01:43 Orogogus
 
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 13:21:
Is it so hard to believe there's people looking to get paid so they'll do research on a viewpoint and skew it enough to get more grants? There's been entire research groups dedicated to Anti-Vax profiteering. Climate Change is no different. There's dickheads on both sides.

This seems incredibly facile on the face of it, on the level of "Trump won the popular vote." You have to believe that millions of people can keep a secret. Somehow none of these perpetrators of a global conspiracy between academia and government, across multiple countries, have blown the whistle, no one has leaked memos where research was purposely falsified. No one has admitted buying politicians with money from Big Green. You can point to specific people behind the anti-vax cause, but you don't see the equivalent on the manmade climate change argument. What villain is handing out all these malicious grants, in every developed country on earth? Surely all this organized misinformation would have to be organized by a mastermind, or a cabal, right?

On the other hand you do have repeated incidents of energy companies and heavy industry funding studies with the opposite goal, hiding their own research that showed results they didn't want to see, of them spending lavishly on politicians to do what they say.

I think the "you owe oil companies, so give it up" argument pretty much says it all. There was a pretty good article about former denialist John Kaiser, where he described the process. Evidence and facts don't matter, you start with what you believe is right and work backwards from there. Someone working the other way would have said, oil has done all these things for us, but what are the consequences?
 
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33. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 16, 2019, 00:37 SunnyD
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 20:35:
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 13:21:

<<Some Stuff>>

<<Snip of Other Stuff>>

Nobody is saying oil didn't build modern society. What we're saying is now that we understand the massive threat that burning fossil fuels poses, we need to develop and implement alternatives, and quickly.

Good for Greta and the other kids. We'll be dead before things get too shitty, but they and their children will have to live with the consequences of our inaction.

You think they're pissed off now, wait til they get a load of the nuclear debt thrown on the backs of them and their dna-chains for the next few thousand years by way of having to manage all the pools of spent nuclear fuel rods 'n such.

If asked today, I couldn't argue that a bit of a Logan's Run kind of rebellion against those above the age of 30 isn't deserved.

~Finis~
 
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32. Re: Weather: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) Oct 15, 2019, 21:36 Mr. Tact
 
Another fine example of "I don't know if I should be laughing or crying..." *sigh*  



Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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31. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 20:56 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 19:34:
Some nation spent thousands of dollars training that beluga whale. Can't wait till we can communicate with those critters.

Well, we already know what they are going to say:

"MORE FISH PLEASE!"

 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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30. Re: School start times Oct 15, 2019, 20:49 jdreyer
 
Creston wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 17:45:
This is nonsensical. First of all, this will do NOTHING for "sleep-deprived" students. Those students will just to go bed an hour later, and still be exactly as sleep-deprived as they always were. if they're that short on sleep, make them go to bed earlier.

Second, many states themselves force students to stay up absurdly late for extra-curricular activities. My wife said her softball students' game to determine whether they'd go to the state championship STARTED at 9.17pm. Needless to say, none of those kids were home before midnight. Who fault is it that the stupid game starts after 9 o clock?

And, as the article mentions, many students are dropped off by parents before said parents go to work. No employer is going to be okay with parents suddenly being an hour late to work every day because school starts at 8.30, so those kids are still just going to get dropped off at school at 7.30.

This is the kind of thing that needs to be determined at a district level, or even a local town level. NOT at the state level.

Head of sleep research at Berkeley Dr. Matt Walker has shown how starting school an hour later has drastic effects on grades, suicide rates, accident rates, obesity, and a whole host of other data points. This law is based on solid science of how teenage circadian rhythms are tuned. Even with the workarounds you posit, a lot of children will benefit from this.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 20:44 jdreyer
 
Kxmode wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 17:48:
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:54:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:37:
Only a Billion a year is spent on denying climate change. Furious2

"Climate Change". What kind of fucking term is that?

It used to be called "Global Warming" but of course that wasn't broad enough to try and get people on board with new science of world temperature. Climate tracking in +95% of the world has only been around 150 years which is a very very small sample size. England started mid 1600's but nothing was agreed upon in scales until around ~1720.

Is the temperature rising? Sure. Are people 100% responsible? Could be.. could not be. This could be part of natural cycles. I hate this fucking term of "Climate Change". The climate is ALWAYS changing.

Modeling software used to predict client change is only as good as the data it has to work with, as well as how well-written it is. I think making grandiose statements about fundamental changes to the climate from a data size of 150 years is irresponsible science when the earth is over four billion years old. The sample size is inadequate to provide accurate information. Also, applications are susceptible to human error.

Have scientists been able to retrieve weather records going further back from other sources or are they working in a vacuum on time?
Proxies like tree rings and Antarctic ice cores give us temperature and atmospheric composition going back thosands and hundreds of thousands of years respectively.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 20:35 jdreyer
 
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 13:21:

Is it so hard to believe there's people looking to get paid so they'll do research on a viewpoint and skew it enough to get more grants? There's been entire research groups dedicated to Anti-Vax profiteering. Climate Change is no different. There's dickheads on both sides.

The argument "scientists only research global warming to get grants!" is a petroleum industry smear to muddy the consensus.

Only the anti-vaxxers profit, there's no profit in opposing them.

"Both sides do it!" does not apply to either the anti-vax or global warming debates. On the right side is science, with its reproducible empiricism. On the other side is massive profits and/or superstition.

Nobody is saying oil didn't build modern society. What we're saying is now that we understand the massive threat that burning fossil fuels poses, we need to develop and implement alternatives, and quickly.

Good for Greta and the other kids. We'll be dead before things get too shitty, but they and their children will have to live with the consequences of our inaction.
 
Avatar 22024
 



The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 19:34 RedEye9
 
Some nation spent thousands of dollars training that beluga whale. Can't wait till we can communicate with those critters.  
Avatar 58135
 



“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 18:56 Cutter
 
Killer Kane wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 18:45:
Why bother arguing with these brainwashed anti-science cretins. We're moving toward renewable energy whether they, their evil petroleum overlords or what "President Windmills-Bad" says. It's happening, so get out of the way Bronto, you're archaic ways are no longer valid in our world.

Unfortunately we can't fix stupid and those morons are literally destroying the world we have to live in.
 
Avatar 25394
 
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25. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 18:54 Cutter
 
Kxmode wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 17:48:
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:54:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:37:
Only a Billion a year is spent on denying climate change. Furious2

"Climate Change". What kind of fucking term is that?

It used to be called "Global Warming" but of course that wasn't broad enough to try and get people on board with new science of world temperature. Climate tracking in +95% of the world has only been around 150 years which is a very very small sample size. England started mid 1600's but nothing was agreed upon in scales until around ~1720.

Is the temperature rising? Sure. Are people 100% responsible? Could be.. could not be. This could be part of natural cycles. I hate this fucking term of "Climate Change". The climate is ALWAYS changing.

Modeling software used to predict client change is only as good as the data it has to work with, as well as how well-written it is. I think making grandiose statements about fundamental changes to the climate from a data size of 150 years is irresponsible science when the earth is over four billion years old. The sample size is inadequate to provide accurate information. Also, applications are susceptible to human error.

Have scientists been able to retrieve weather records going further back from other sources or are they working in a vacuum on time?

Gosh, it's too bad they can't ascertain that sort of data from, oh I don't know...ice core samples and other geological data. Yeah, they're just making it all up to create work for themselves. There's just no possible way we can measure any of this stuff since the beginning of industrialization. And there's no such thing as carbon or methane. They're just made up too. In fact there's no such thing as gravity and the earth is flat and alchemy and phrenology are the only real science there is. Yeah it's all fiction, except for your invisible sky wizard of course.

Rolleyes


 
Avatar 25394
 
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24. Re: School start times Oct 15, 2019, 18:49 Cutter
 
Creston wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 17:45:
This is nonsensical. First of all, this will do NOTHING for "sleep-deprived" students. Those students will just to go bed an hour later, and still be exactly as sleep-deprived as they always were. if they're that short on sleep, make them go to bed earlier.

Second, many states themselves force students to stay up absurdly late for extra-curricular activities. My wife said her softball students' game to determine whether they'd go to the state championship STARTED at 9.17pm. Needless to say, none of those kids were home before midnight. Who fault is it that the stupid game starts after 9 o clock?

And, as the article mentions, many students are dropped off by parents before said parents go to work. No employer is going to be okay with parents suddenly being an hour late to work every day because school starts at 8.30, so those kids are still just going to get dropped off at school at 7.30.

This is the kind of thing that needs to be determined at a district level, or even a local town level. NOT at the state level.

Why not? Early starts have always been brutal for me which is probably the biggest part of why I worked in hospitality most of my life. I hated, and I mean hated, getting up for school. I never felt like I was there and awake until after lunch. I've never understood the whole 9-5 ethos. Thanks but I'd rather roll in around noonish or so and work later. I guess some people are morning people but there are just as many people who aren't.
 
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 18:45 Killer Kane
 
Why bother arguing with these brainwashed anti-science cretins. We're moving toward renewable energy whether they, their evil petroleum overlords or what "President Windmills-Bad" says. It's happening, so get out of the way Bronto, you're archaic ways are no longer valid in our world.  
Avatar 14092
 
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22. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 17:48 Kxmode
 
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:54:
RedEye9 wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 10:37:
Only a Billion a year is spent on denying climate change. Furious2

"Climate Change". What kind of fucking term is that?

It used to be called "Global Warming" but of course that wasn't broad enough to try and get people on board with new science of world temperature. Climate tracking in +95% of the world has only been around 150 years which is a very very small sample size. England started mid 1600's but nothing was agreed upon in scales until around ~1720.

Is the temperature rising? Sure. Are people 100% responsible? Could be.. could not be. This could be part of natural cycles. I hate this fucking term of "Climate Change". The climate is ALWAYS changing.

Modeling software used to predict client change is only as good as the data it has to work with, as well as how well-written it is. I think making grandiose statements about fundamental changes to the climate from a data size of 150 years is irresponsible science when the earth is over four billion years old. The sample size is inadequate to provide accurate information. Also, applications are susceptible to human error.

Have scientists been able to retrieve weather records going further back from other sources or are they working in a vacuum on time?
 
Avatar 18786
 



William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 1: Aboard the rebel ship. / Enter C-3PO and R2-D2. / C-3PO: "Now is the summer of our happiness / Made winter by this sudden, fierce attack!" / R2-D2 — Beep beep, Beep, beep, meep, squeak, beep, whee!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 

21. School start times Oct 15, 2019, 17:45 Creston
 
This is nonsensical. First of all, this will do NOTHING for "sleep-deprived" students. Those students will just to go bed an hour later, and still be exactly as sleep-deprived as they always were. if they're that short on sleep, make them go to bed earlier.

Second, many states themselves force students to stay up absurdly late for extra-curricular activities. My wife said her softball students' game to determine whether they'd go to the state championship STARTED at 9.17pm. Needless to say, none of those kids were home before midnight. Who fault is it that the stupid game starts after 9 o clock?

And, as the article mentions, many students are dropped off by parents before said parents go to work. No employer is going to be okay with parents suddenly being an hour late to work every day because school starts at 8.30, so those kids are still just going to get dropped off at school at 7.30.

This is the kind of thing that needs to be determined at a district level, or even a local town level. NOT at the state level.
 
Avatar 15604
 
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 15, 2019, 17:38 Tipsy McStagger
 
NKD wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 14:29:
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Oct 15, 2019, 13:21:

Is it so hard to believe there's people looking to get paid so they'll do research on a viewpoint and skew it enough to get more grants?

Why should we believe this when you've provided no evidence that research is being systematically doctored or that these "grants" are somehow contingent on what the results of said research are?

Got me there, mostly because I don't feel like doing the investigative journalism on the subject but there's also further proof on the start of this topic:
Meet the money behind the climate denial movement Derrrrp.

As for the rest of you, read what I wrote. My beef is with the climate change term. It's a terrible term.

Is the climate changing? Yes.
Are humans 100% to blame? Not fully proven but they think so
Is there actually a huge issue that humans can do something about? no one can answer that. It might be completely inevitable.
 
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