Dev wrote on Sep 6, 2019, 09:48:
I mean... one could just wait until release and reviews to see if the SP content was screwed over from decision to add MP after launch. And at that point make the buy decision.

It's pretty much unknowable whether there could have been more or higher quality post-release SP content had post-release MP content not been worked on. It's just speculation that it's detrimental. So for people who don't care about MP (I'm not one of them) they'd rather have more SP content than MP.
I do think it's reasonable speculation. Grossly simplified, and for point of example, say plans are 3 SP DLC and MP... maybe without MP plans would have been 6 SP DLC. KX thinks that's not reasonable because CDPR would hire as many people to fulfill whatever its plans are therefore if they wanted 6 SP DLC they'd just hire more people and MP development has no bearing on this process...

I mean... one could just wait until release and reviews to see if the SP content was screwed over from decision to add MP after launch. And at that point make the buy decision.

All i want i co-op, single player games are so 80's.

Sepharo wrote on Sep 5, 2019, 16:31:

Kxmode wrote on Sep 5, 2019, 16:11:

VaranDragon wrote on Sep 5, 2019, 10:32:
What the hell is the problem here? I don't see it. Free DLC and post release multiplayer support? Why the fuck would anyone have a problem with this is beyond me.

Because people are confusing POST-support with PRE-release development. In other words, they don't RTFM. It's par for the course for some on Blue's News.

You're the one that's having trouble reading the posts... because you keep responding with CORE SP when you can plainly see the complaints you're quoting were talking about post-release content.

https://i.imgur.com/jNstlUn.png

The post-launch single-player experience is driven entirely by the number of people CDPR hires to produce the content. I've stated ad nauseam the number of people they had on Witcher 3, meaning if there are quality issues, it's not because they didn't have enough people to work on the content.

Kxmode wrote on Sep 5, 2019, 16:11:

VaranDragon wrote on Sep 5, 2019, 10:32:
What the hell is the problem here? I don't see it. Free DLC and post release multiplayer support? Why the fuck would anyone have a problem with this is beyond me.

Because people are confusing POST-support with PRE-release development. In other words, they don't RTFM. It's par for the course for some on Blue's News.

You're the one that's having trouble reading the posts... because you keep responding with CORE SP when you can plainly see the complaints you're quoting were talking about post-release content.

https://i.imgur.com/jNstlUn.png

VaranDragon wrote on Sep 5, 2019, 10:32:
What the hell is the problem here? I don't see it. Free DLC and post release multiplayer support? Why the fuck would anyone have a problem with this is beyond me.

Because people are confusing POST-support with PRE-release development. In other words, they don't RTFM. It's par for the course for some on Blue's News.

* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Sep 5, 2019, 16:19.

All this says to me is CDPR is about to make the best game ever made. Again.

What the hell is the problem here? I don't see it. Free DLC and post release multiplayer support? Why the fuck would anyone have a problem with this is beyond me.

How most projects go is you have a bunch of disciplines and then department heads with lackeys workers underneath.

Once the deliverables are done, people get laid off because well, there's no work for them OR they get moved to another project.

Typically you don't have 1 of these guys working on a group of assets, you usually have 6 of them working on one section. There's certain times where you're basically pregnant with one worker. I've used this a few times in my career to describe a deliverable. Some tasks require 1 guy to focus solely on it and you can't throw multiple people on it to make it faster. It takes 1 woman 9 months to make a baby, you can't take 9 women to make a baby in 1 month as I like I say. This happens quite often in certain fields more than others.

What they're most likely doing is "keeping guys busy" by starting work on a multiplayer. Does this take away from maybe a day 30 DLC? maybe and maybe not, it depends how much man-power loading they've assigned to the tasks. New DLC won't be as labor intensive as initial generation as most assets have been created. Example is a modeling team will generate a bunch of models and assets and have some saved ideas that didn't make it past the cut at first, this will take the bulk of the hours. Later those assets can be revisited for extra content. So they will split the team of 6 and accomplish double the work in the same time using all 6 guys instead of axing 3 guys from team of 6 and only churning out a DLC package.

This is all speculation and assumption but you guys get pretty bent out of shape at the announcement that some multiplayer is going to come in.

I'll just say this: Mass effect 3 was a single player game that they added multiplayer to and it was the best damn thing that game had going. It was really really good.

Sepharo wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 21:49:

Slick wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 20:25:

Sepharo wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 19:51:
He's joking.

Lol, you're probably right. But honestly ask yourself, can you really tell?

Yes.
And someone in the thread already pointed it out to someone else who fell for it as well.

Post 15 in this thread.
It's goddamnmyredhaiR's* modus operandi. *Riahderymnmaddog

Kxmode wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 20:02:
Are you serious?

Yes.

The question to me is more if the post-launch DLC will be as meaty as it could have been if there was no tacked on multiplayer garbage being worked on.

That's a reasonable thing to be concerned about. Yet it caused you to do your "you don't work there" spiel which applies to you as well.

Slick wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 20:25:

Sepharo wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 19:51:
He's joking.

Lol, you're probably right. But honestly ask yourself, can you really tell?

Yes.
And someone in the thread already pointed it out to someone else who fell for it as well.

Sepharo wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 19:51:
He's joking.

Lol, you're probably right. But honestly ask yourself, can you really tell?

RedEye9 wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 18:46:

Darks wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 18:36:
I see the usually pissing and moaning is going on, nothing new here.

On a side note, hoping that MP will maybe be Coop too.

Dick measuring contest extraordinaire.

My-Platform-Is-Better-Than-Yours. Hypocrite much?

Sepharo wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 18:15:

Kxmode wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 17:27:

Sepharo wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 17:08:
You don't know anything either bud.
People are fine to complain that they'd rather see those employees working on SP content regardless of the delineation or numbers.

The first paragraph = I state very clear unknowns. It's not hard to gauge them.

The second paragraph = This is a valid observation into how CDPR produces their games from a staffing level based on info they shared at one of their annual meetings.

There's a difference between people complaining to complain, and people complaining based on information they have about something. Parker was blindly throwing a tirade about something he has no credible information on.

And again neither do you.
So, please stop. You don't work at CDPR so you can't know about where they place their employees or what work they give their contractors. Nor if resources are moved away from the SP game to MP R&D. You also don't know a thing about Cyberpunk's engine technology and how robust it is to support MP. Nor do you understand how approachable it is for the studio. You don't know how many people are working on the tech to support both an SP and MP experience.

Are you serious? I did not state them as facts. It was a list of unknowns based on what most developer/publishers have. We know all have a headcount, all use an engine (either theirs or licensed), and most employee contractors. The only people who know the specific details from my list is CDPR themselves. However, the list is immaterial. I used it as a counterpoint to Parker's asinine attempt to explain the inner workings of CDPR with no knowledge of the company.

Case in point (for context):

CJ_Parker wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 16:02:
Of course it is. They only have number x employees and if a certain number of them is working on post-launch multiplayer DLC then it is definitely taking away from the (post-launch) single player content.

The question is to what extent but no matter what they say: As soon as multiplayer enters the stage we are talking resources, compromises and pre-planning that is going to affect the single player in some way. Claiming otherwise is typical CD Projekt "look at us, look at us, LOOK ALREADY, we are the good guys" marketing bullshit.

My second paragraph mentioned CDPR's staffing numbers on The Witcher 3 (a known fact). I don't know if a 1,000 people will work on CP77, but it provides a clear precedent that CDPR isn't worried about staffing needs and will likely hire as many as they need to get the job done.

He's joking.

Riahderymnmaddog wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 13:32:
OHHH so basically CDPR just announced that they plan on charging FULL PRICE for an unfinished game just like EA!!!

Couple things:

1) What game doesn't cost FULL PRICE? No matter what the number is, I'm assuming that it's full price at launch.

2) Inferring that post-launch content and support is equal to releasing an unfinished game is a fallacy.

If they delivered only SP, you'd be 100% content that it was a "finished" game. But they say they're going to release more content later, so now it's unfinished? Where does that lead us? So any game still actively supported post-launch is "unfinished"? Is the only "finished" game one where all support and production has ceased? Would you consider World of Warcraft an unfinished game? They've been releasing content for 15 years...

I do remember some story about an EA game, Battlefield 1 maybe? Where they released the first DLC free for everyone, but everyone was just mad insisting that the product on release was unfinished lol. Seems like some developers just can't win.

What's the play here? If you were the game company, what would you do?

GothicWizard wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 18:25:

Creston wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 13:21:

Sadly, as previous attempts at player-created missions have shown, most people will just create garbage, or exploitative missions. :\

Not true at all LOTS of SOLID content in NWN1 & 2 and more recently Conan Exiles who both did the toolkit/server model. His GTA example was a poorly made one, the ones I give are much better of how to do such properly.

What content for CE? First I've heard of it.

RedEye9 wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 18:46:

Darks wrote on Sep 4, 2019, 18:36:
I see the usually pissing and moaning is going on, nothing new here.

On a side note, hoping that MP will maybe be Coop too.

Dick measuring contest extraordinaire.

Coop would be a sweet addition to the game.

Campaign coop would be awesome but I'd imagine that it would be a pain in the ass to implement if the campaign and quests are as branching and complex as Witcher 3's.

Although it'd be less cool, I'd settle for separate coop missions though. It seems like this would be the easiest method to add some form of coop to Cyberpunk 2077 for CDPR.