Piranha Games on MechWarrior 5 Epic Games Store Exclusivity [Jul 31, 2019, 10:03 am ET] – Share – Viewing Comments
In a recent
No Guts No Galaxy Podcast on SoundCloud, Piranha Games president Russ
Bullock subjected himself to an ask me anything session about MechWarrior 5:
Mercenaries, their upcoming BattleTech game.
Polygon has some quotes from this discussing the decision to make the game a
one-year exclusive on the Epic Games Store. There is no indication there was any
payoff to make the deal, but Russ does delve into the economics, noting that
selling on Steam would mean 30% of their take would go to Valve on top of a 5%
commission going to Epic to cover their use of the Unreal Engine. By selling on
the Epic Games Store, Epic's commission will be 12% total which means Piranha
will make an additional $9 million if they achieve their goal of selling one
million copies. He also makes a related point, saying the game will get better
and more prolonged exposure on the Epic Games Store, where he expects it to be
highlighted for a month, as opposed to Steam, where he imagines the game would
be buried by newer releases in a matter of hours:
Bullock gave multiple reasons for the exclusivity agreement. Chief among them was the amount of exposure that MechWarrior 5 would get on the front page of the Epic Games Store as compared to Steam.
“It’s a good platform,” Bullock said, referring to Steam. “But, as we’ve done our updates and our little exposure rounds that they provide [for MechWarrior Online], what I’ve found is the critical mass [of other new games being released] is just so heavy over there that ... after a patch or something ... 10 hours later it’s done and you’re buried again. So that was a concern for us and, I think, it’s a growing concern for a lot of smaller developers.”
By contrast, Bullock said his team expects to be in front of Epic Games Store customers for a full month or more after his game comes out. Additionally, he cited the increased volume of new users that he expects will be adopting the platform for Borderlands 3, which will be releasing exclusively on the Epic Games Store around the same time as MechWarrior 5.
The goal, he said, is to sell at least 1 million copies of MechWarrior 5. Given what he knows about the sales of Harebrained Schemes’ BattleTech and other games in the same genre, he believes that’s entirely possible. Moreover, he feels it’s especially possible on the Epic Games Store.
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Aug 3, 2019, 15:10.
This comment was deleted on Aug 3, 2019, 15:10.
CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 11:43:Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 22:22:
If Epic was really doing this for devs and gamers, they'd waive it for any store. Just a scummy move to ramp up revenue from games that they'd usually only get 5% from up to 12%.
Engine licensing is Epic's core business model and the 5% is their flat fee regardless of where the game is sold. They only charge the 5% if a game generates at least $3,000 revenue per game per quarter.
If a game sells less (as may be the case with very small indie devs) then there is no fee and the engine can be used for free.Also, people are conveniently forgetting that Steam makes ZERO profit off of Steam keys that they generate for FREE for third party stores-so in those cases the developers get much more, possibly close to 100% in some cases.
People also conveniently forget to mention that devs can not request free Steam keys all willy-nilly. Valve reserves the right to deny high volume requests. Devs can't just generate the keys as they please. They have to request them and get approval.
When the devs sell on those "free" keys on 3rd party stores then e.g. Fanatical or GMG also take a cut so forget about 100%.
My point is that Epic is unfairly leveraging their huge influence in the game engine market to influence the digital market.
Your point about keys is irrelevant, like any company of course Valve reserves the right to deny a ridiculous request, any other company would have the same fine print.
But point me to a confirmed case where Valve has ever denied a developers request to generate keys, and maybe it would have merit. As it stands, developers can sell those keys however they see fit, so 100% profit off of them is not unreasonable in a lot of cases, with many other most likely being closer to the cut they'd receive from EGS.
Bumpy wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 08:33:DarkCntry wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 01:58:MeanJim wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 21:00:
Here's a crazy idea: Release your game on all stores, and let people chose where to buy it. Raise the price on other stores that take a bigger cut to make up for the difference in what EGS takes. It's a win for everyone, consumers get to chose where to buy the game and the dev/pub gets the same profit, more probably since it would be available and getting exposure on more store fronts.
Yea, that would go over like a lead balloon...you'd have people yelling and screaming about how more expensive it is on X or Y store. I mean, we already get this a lot with things like GMG's prices compared to straight Steam.
There's really no 'good' way to do something like that and not have someone, somewhere, screaming about X store making things too expensive.
Boohoo, too bad. If someone wants it badly in their store of choice, they'd need to pay for it and support their freedom of choice.
I happily pay a higher price and buy whatever I can on GOG.com for their lack of anti-piracy software.
Good for you, and until you become the norm the world doesn't work your way.
As I said, a setup like this would create just as much a shitstorm as exclusives would...as it would be creating a preferred storefront to purchase from that may, or may not, go against the general consensus of favored storefronts.
So what is a Dev/Publisher to do? Do they bite the bullet and put it on as many storefronts as possible with varying price points (which can be a nightmare itself) creating an outcry over said different price points? Do they decide to bite the bullet, create an exclusive storefront and get the outcry over said exclusivity?
There's just no 'good' way to do this in the entitled world of the gaming community where everything must be exactly to the specifications of the consumer or else they are somewhere getting ripped off of something.
CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 11:43:
When the devs sell on those "free" keys on 3rd party stores then e.g. Fanatical or GMG also take a cut so forget about 100%.
itch.io allows the developer to decide how much, if any, to share with itch.io. I've been buying a lot more from them lately. You get a Steam key and sometimes a DRM free build. You can pay more than the minimum if you want to support the developer. Some developers also sell steam keys from their own site, which is 100% profit. GMG, Humble, etc. take less of a cut than Steam. I've heard Epic start allowing third party key sellers to sell EGS keys, but I haven't heard if they take a cut from key sales or not. Anyone know?
jdreyer wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 14:02:Nimh wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 06:44:Not true. There are lots of games for sale on EGS and Steam. Oxygen Not Included for example just came out of EA on both platforms.
Epic has no interest in non-exclusive new releases.
Just look at how many games are available on the EGS that are also available on Steam and GOG and other stores. Those crazy developers, giving people choices, what are they thinking? CDPR could have easily made Cyberpunk 2077 a GOG exclusive or timed exclusive, but they didn't. It's also for sale on Steam, EGS and key sites.
"The only way anyone can live in peace is if they're prepared to forgive." - The Doctor
Nimh wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 06:44:Not true. There are lots of games for sale on EGS and Steam. Oxygen Not Included for example just came out of EA on both platforms.MeanJim wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 21:00:
Here's a crazy idea: Release your game on all stores, and let people chose where to buy it. Raise the price on other stores that take a bigger cut to make up for the difference in what EGS takes. It's a win for everyone, consumers get to chose where to buy the game and the dev/pub gets the same profit, more probably since it would be available and getting exposure on more store fronts.
Epic has no interest in non-exclusive new releases.
"Even after you've had the COVID-19 vaccine, you still need to wash hands, watch distance and wear a mask because you can still transmit the virus even though you're not going to get sick." - NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
CJ_Parker wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 11:43:We are in the era of conveniently forgetting facts. sighRazumen wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 22:22:
If Epic was really doing this for devs and gamers, they'd waive it for any store. Just a scummy move to ramp up revenue from games that they'd usually only get 5% from up to 12%.
Engine licensing is Epic's core business model and the 5% is their flat fee regardless of where the game is sold. They only charge the 5% if a game generates at least $3,000 revenue per game per quarter.
If a game sells less (as may be the case with very small indie devs) then there is no fee and the engine can be used for free.Also, people are conveniently forgetting that Steam makes ZERO profit off of Steam keys that they generate for FREE for third party stores-so in those cases the developers get much more, possibly close to 100% in some cases.
People also conveniently forget to mention that devs can not request free Steam keys all willy-nilly. Valve reserves the right to deny high volume requests. Devs can't just generate the keys as they please. They have to request them and get approval.
When the devs sell on those "free" keys on 3rd party stores then e.g. Fanatical or GMG also take a cut so forget about 100%.
Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 22:22:
If Epic was really doing this for devs and gamers, they'd waive it for any store. Just a scummy move to ramp up revenue from games that they'd usually only get 5% from up to 12%.
Engine licensing is Epic's core business model and the 5% is their flat fee regardless of where the game is sold. They only charge the 5% if a game generates at least $3,000 revenue per game per quarter.
If a game sells less (as may be the case with very small indie devs) then there is no fee and the engine can be used for free.
Also, people are conveniently forgetting that Steam makes ZERO profit off of Steam keys that they generate for FREE for third party stores-so in those cases the developers get much more, possibly close to 100% in some cases.
People also conveniently forget to mention that devs can not request free Steam keys all willy-nilly. Valve reserves the right to deny high volume requests. Devs can't just generate the keys as they please. They have to request them and get approval.
When the devs sell on those "free" keys on 3rd party stores then e.g. Fanatical or GMG also take a cut so forget about 100%.
DarkCntry wrote on Aug 1, 2019, 01:58:MeanJim wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 21:00:
Here's a crazy idea: Release your game on all stores, and let people chose where to buy it. Raise the price on other stores that take a bigger cut to make up for the difference in what EGS takes. It's a win for everyone, consumers get to chose where to buy the game and the dev/pub gets the same profit, more probably since it would be available and getting exposure on more store fronts.
Yea, that would go over like a lead balloon...you'd have people yelling and screaming about how more expensive it is on X or Y store. I mean, we already get this a lot with things like GMG's prices compared to straight Steam.
There's really no 'good' way to do something like that and not have someone, somewhere, screaming about X store making things too expensive.
Boohoo, too bad. If someone wants it badly in their store of choice, they'd need to pay for it and support their freedom of choice.
I happily pay a higher price and buy whatever I can on GOG.com for their lack of anti-piracy software.
MeanJim wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 21:00:
Here's a crazy idea: Release your game on all stores, and let people chose where to buy it. Raise the price on other stores that take a bigger cut to make up for the difference in what EGS takes. It's a win for everyone, consumers get to chose where to buy the game and the dev/pub gets the same profit, more probably since it would be available and getting exposure on more store fronts.
Epic has no interest in non-exclusive new releases.
Red886 wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 23:58:
EPIC is just forced savings for 12 months.
not too bad considering games exclusive to EPIC in 2019 thus far is rather shit.
Translation of "rather shit:" Not my cup of tea.
"Even after you've had the COVID-19 vaccine, you still need to wash hands, watch distance and wear a mask because you can still transmit the virus even though you're not going to get sick." - NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
Creston wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 23:30:Shock wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 21:24:Creston wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 11:19:
Can't fault his math, but I find it curious that he says he can stay on the front page of the EGS for a longer time than with Steam (Certainly a possibility), but then he releases around the same time as BL3.
No offense, buddy, but which of these two games do you think is going to be front and center?
There's 3 months difference between release dates.
Borderlands 3 - Sept 13
Mechwarrior 5 - December 10
Oh okay. I was just going by what the guy said himself. "which will be releasing exclusively on the Epic Games Store around the same time as MechWarrior 5."
A *very* loose definition of "around."
"Even after you've had the COVID-19 vaccine, you still need to wash hands, watch distance and wear a mask because you can still transmit the virus even though you're not going to get sick." - NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 22:22:jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 22:02:Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 20:26:Tipsy McStagger wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 17:17:jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 15:46:
Yeah, I doubt it's 10 to 1. That said, if it's double:
500K copies @ $50 per game on EGS @ 88% revenue = $22M
1M copies @ $50 per game on Steam @ 65% revenue = $32.5M
I'll take it one further for this example of break even is 177k more game copies
677k copies @ $50 per game on steam @ 65% revenue = $22M
Steam takes 30%, not 35%.
If you had read Blue's blurb, you'd know that in addition to Steam's 30%, PG must pay Epic 5% for licensing the Unreal engine. That 5% is waived if they use the EGS. So revenue losses are 35% on Steam but only 12% on EGS.
If Epic was really doing this for devs and gamers, they'd waive it for any store. Just a scummy move to ramp up revenue from games that they'd usually only get 5% from up to 12%.
Also, people are conveniently forgetting that Steam makes ZERO profit off of Steam keys that they generate for FREE for third party stores-so in those cases the developers get much more, possibly close to 100% in some cases.
Why would they waive it for any store? That makes no sense. The Unreal engine is their core business. So they'd give away for free the engine that they've spent $100s of millions developing?
"Even after you've had the COVID-19 vaccine, you still need to wash hands, watch distance and wear a mask because you can still transmit the virus even though you're not going to get sick." - NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins
MeanJim wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 21:00:
Here's a crazy idea: Release your game on all stores, and let people chose where to buy it. Raise the price on other stores that take a bigger cut to make up for the difference in what EGS takes. It's a win for everyone, consumers get to chose where to buy the game and the dev/pub gets the same profit, more probably since it would be available and getting exposure on more store fronts.
Yea, that would go over like a lead balloon...you'd have people yelling and screaming about how more expensive it is on X or Y store. I mean, we already get this a lot with things like GMG's prices compared to straight Steam.
There's really no 'good' way to do something like that and not have someone, somewhere, screaming about X store making things too expensive.
EPIC is just forced savings for 12 months.
not too bad considering games exclusive to EPIC in 2019 thus far is rather shit.
not too bad considering games exclusive to EPIC in 2019 thus far is rather shit.
Shock wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 21:24:Creston wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 11:19:
Can't fault his math, but I find it curious that he says he can stay on the front page of the EGS for a longer time than with Steam (Certainly a possibility), but then he releases around the same time as BL3.
No offense, buddy, but which of these two games do you think is going to be front and center?
There's 3 months difference between release dates.
Borderlands 3 - Sept 13
Mechwarrior 5 - December 10
Oh okay. I was just going by what the guy said himself. "which will be releasing exclusively on the Epic Games Store around the same time as MechWarrior 5."
Hope Piranha likes their new subpar apartment run by a bunch of anti-consumer scumlords.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 22:02:Damn Your Eyes!Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 20:26:Tipsy McStagger wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 17:17:jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 15:46:
Yeah, I doubt it's 10 to 1. That said, if it's double:
500K copies @ $50 per game on EGS @ 88% revenue = $22M
1M copies @ $50 per game on Steam @ 65% revenue = $32.5M
I'll take it one further for this example of break even is 177k more game copies
677k copies @ $50 per game on steam @ 65% revenue = $22M
Steam takes 30%, not 35%.
If you had read Blue's blurb, you'd know that in addition to Steam's 30%, PG must pay Epic 5% for licensing the Unreal engine. That 5% is waived if they use the EGS. So revenue losses are 35% on Steam but only 12% on EGS.
jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 22:02:Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 20:26:Tipsy McStagger wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 17:17:jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2019, 15:46:
Yeah, I doubt it's 10 to 1. That said, if it's double:
500K copies @ $50 per game on EGS @ 88% revenue = $22M
1M copies @ $50 per game on Steam @ 65% revenue = $32.5M
I'll take it one further for this example of break even is 177k more game copies
677k copies @ $50 per game on steam @ 65% revenue = $22M
Steam takes 30%, not 35%.
If you had read Blue's blurb, you'd know that in addition to Steam's 30%, PG must pay Epic 5% for licensing the Unreal engine. That 5% is waived if they use the EGS. So revenue losses are 35% on Steam but only 12% on EGS.
If Epic was really doing this for devs and gamers, they'd waive it for any store. Just a scummy move to ramp up revenue from games that they'd usually only get 5% from up to 12%.
Also, people are conveniently forgetting that Steam makes ZERO profit off of Steam keys that they generate for FREE for third party stores-so in those cases the developers get much more, possibly close to 100% in some cases.
For all sales between $10 million and $50 million, the split goes to 25 percent. And for every sale after the initial $50 million, Steam will take just a 20 percent cut. “The value of a large network like Steam has many benefits that are contributed to and shared by all the participants
So they'd be looking at 20 points, not 30, if they made their million sales.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."
Well I won't support exclusives, nor do I think the market will support full price a year later.
It will be interesting to see.
Heck, Epic might have a 75% off sale 1 month short of a year and try to gain massive sales numbers before it goes to Steam.
It will be interesting to see.
Heck, Epic might have a 75% off sale 1 month short of a year and try to gain massive sales numbers before it goes to Steam.
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