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Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund

A post on the Factorio Blog has word that Wube Software is attempting to take key reseller G2A up on G2A's recent offer to refund ten times the chargebacks on fraudulent charges (thanks PC Gamer). Here's word:

Upon hearing the news of G2A advertising Descenders, we took a look ourselves, and we discovered they were doing the same with Factorio:

Obviously we aren't super happy about it, but after looking into some trademark/copyright law, it seems there is not much we can do.

After the news broke, G2A posted an article on their website: G2A vows to pay devs 10x the money proven to be lost on chargebacks. After reading it through, I thought I would take them up on their offer.

We had a ton of chargeback and fraud issues in 2016 just after our Steam launch, with over 300 Steam keys of the game being purchased with stolen credit cards. With an average chargeback fee of about $20, we estimate the total amount of fees we paid because of chargebacks is about $6,600. We will be doing a deeper evaluation of our historic accounting records to get a more exact figure, but it doesn't matter so much now.

So I emailed G2A about the article and their 'vow' last week, and they are not exactly prompt in terms of dealing with the request. I have a list of all the Steam keys I had to revoke because they were purchased fraudulently, and G2A offered to check the keys. Currently this is where the story ends, they haven't replied to my last email (2 days ago) sending them the keys and asking how many of them were sold on the website.

Funnily, we already know that at least some of the keys were sold on G2A, because after I revoked them, I had people emailing to ask what was wrong with their key:

  • Hello, on 2016-12-26 I bought my brother a Factorio steam cd key from G2A website. On 2017-01-20 he got a message on steam that the game was revoked. What happened and how can we solve this issue?
  • Hey, I got this game from my friend on my birthday a while back, March 11thish. He sent me it by key, I didn’t really question it. Yesterday, though, I was greeted by a popup telling me the game had been removed. After investigating, I learned my friend bought it from a site called G2A, little shady site from what I hear. Steam support says it was “revoked at the request of the publisher.”
  • I bought Factorio on G2A last week for Steam. However, I can't find it in my Steam library anymore.
  • On 3 March I bought the game Factorio on G2a.com It was 5 euro cheaper than on your website so I thought let's buy it here. But today I got a pop-up from steam saying that my Factorio steamkey has been revoked because of a problem with processing payment for this item.
  • Today i logged in, after playing this game rougly 300 hours and about 2 month and got a message that Factorio was removed from my account. I got my key from G2A.com.
  • I bought Factorio on steam a while back and when i went to play it, it said i had to purchase it. I contacted steam and they said that it had been revoked and i should contact the publisher. How and will i get the game back? I bought the game off of G2A.
  • I bought the game on g2a.com and got the steam product code and my account is saying that I don't have the game bought.

Well anyway, after we switched payment providers to Humble Widget, the fraudulent purchases stopped. We don't really care about G2A anymore (but we are in a unique position due to our no sales policy).

There are still Steam gifts of Factorio being sold on G2A, these are most likely 'legit', in that they were not purchased using stolen credit cards. The question is, where do these gifts come from? Obviously people would not be selling Factorio Steam gifts if it did not generate a profit. We have some ideas:

  1. Regional fraud - Buying the game in 1 country and gifting it to someone in another. This is likely, as we can see that the Europe gift is cheaper than the US/Worldwide.
  2. Speculative buyers from before the price increase - The price of the game was $20 a year ago. So buying 1,000 copies and waiting 1 year, nets you a profit of $5,000 if you sell for $25. Not a bad gain in a year. For Factorio the opportunity only came once, but other games go on sale multiple times each year, which is where the speculative buyers and the grey market cash-in.

To conclude this whole topic, we strongly recommend people buy from us or one of our official partners. Not only for the reasons you might think. If you buy from a grey-market site and have a problem with the game, or something goes wrong, you will have to deal with their support system. I don't have the exact details of how to request a refund or customer support from G2A, or how long they will take to respond to your issue.

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30 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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30. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 16, 2019, 03:40 jdreyer
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 23:21:
jdreyer wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 16:08:
Teh SQL iz Hardz:

Select * from KeyTable KT
inner join GameTable GT
where KT.KeyNum in (key0001, key0002, key0003) AND
GT.GameName = "Factorio"


My SQL is super rusty, so I probably have some syntax wrong, but it's something as simple as that.

You're assuming they actually have a table of all of the keys they've sold. Records might be decentralized and tied to individual accounts. Records might be purged after 6-12 months. If the game was sold as Steam gift, I don't think there's any way they can actually identify its key. There are a lot of variables that complicate the process beyond the actual comparison code.

I would be surprised if they didn't have it. Usually you need to keep at least 3 years of transaction data for audit, by law.

If each code is in the customer table or the sales table, then it's still a simple query. If for some odd reason, different codes are in various tables (which is so odd, I can't imagine that schema), it's a slightly more complicated query, but still a 5 minute job for someone that knows the DB.
 
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29. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 16, 2019, 03:38 jdreyer
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 23:11:

jdreyer wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 16:14:
Buy one DVD in China and ship it to the US: No Problem.

Buy 1000 DVDs and ship them to the US, Customs is going to have words.

I guess it's a good thing PC game keys don't go through customs.

Thank you for helping me making a counterpoint against you. It means your "usually called 'free market' when it comes to other goods" is a moot point, because game keys behave differently than nearly every other good on the market.
 
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28. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 23:21 Jerykk
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 16:08:
Teh SQL iz Hardz:

Select * from KeyTable KT
inner join GameTable GT
where KT.KeyNum in (key0001, key0002, key0003) AND
GT.GameName = "Factorio"


My SQL is super rusty, so I probably have some syntax wrong, but it's something as simple as that.

You're assuming they actually have a table of all of the keys they've sold. Records might be decentralized and tied to individual accounts. Records might be purged after 6-12 months. If the game was sold as Steam gift, I don't think there's any way they can actually identify its key. There are a lot of variables that complicate the process beyond the actual comparison code.
 
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27. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 23:11 Jerykk
 
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 06:11:
Some people breaking the law does not make it ok for others to also break the law.

It's not "some people." It's like 95% of the sellers using eBay. If all these sellers were actually breaking the law, you'd think that a high-profile site like eBay would be held accountable for facilitating them, right? Unless it's not illegal and there's nothing to be held accountable for.

Tax laws surrounding reselling and digital goods have always been nebulous. I've never been charged tax for any of the thousands of games I've purchased online, even from authorized resellers like Steam, GOG, Origin and Uplay. With current tax laws, it is completely legal to buy keys and resell them without charging tax.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 16:14:
Buy one DVD in China and ship it to the US: No Problem.

Buy 1000 DVDs and ship them to the US, Customs is going to have words.

I guess it's a good thing PC game keys don't go through customs.
 
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26. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 16:14 jdreyer
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 15:46:
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 07:05:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 03:55:
"Wire fraud?" What are you talking about? They buy the games in bulk from regions where they are significantly cheaper, then resell them globally at a higher price (but still cheaper than MSRP). Again, there's absolutely nothing illegal about that.
It technically circumvents regional taxation (sales tax/VAT), which is fraud. The keys being sold are registered as being sold by the developer in a different country than where they're resold for profit. And the resale for profit via G2A almost certainly does not include any taxes.

1) Don't distribute keys to anyone except verified reviewers or influencers.
This takes a lot more work than most indie studios have budget for, especially since "verified reviewers or influencers" tend to have a lot of things going on already, which takes away time for them to check out a game they may not have heard about. So unless you have enough money to get a sponsored video up, larger influencers and big review sites are a crapshoot at best.

This means that the developer would then have to spend a lot of time researching smaller influencers (which means a smaller potential audience) instead of eg. fixing bugs or polishing the game. Outside the most successful Indie studios, Indies don't have enough income to keep a non-developer/artist on staff for tasks like this.

2) Region-lock your games.
Region locking games means that legitimate users can't gift to actual friends in a different and/or more expensive region (depending on the type of region lock used). It's something people have complained about many times, even on this forum.

If the keys were legally purchased, then all relevant taxes were paid at the time of purchase in the region they were purchased from. As for resales, they typically don't involve taxes for most products. If I buy a DVD from Walmart and resell it, I don't have to charge tax because I already paid the tax when I bought it. This is not unique to G2A.

If you don't have time to verify all of the people you're giving keys to, then limit your keys to people you trust. Sorry if I can't feel sympathetic to indie devs who hand out keys nilly willy, then get mad when some of those keys are resold.

If you want to restrict cross-region reselling then you have to use region-locking. It's that simple. Yes, that hurts customers but restricting reselling hurts customers anyway. You're trying to control pricing so you can force customers to pay more.

Buy one DVD in China and ship it to the US: No Problem.

Buy 1000 DVDs and ship them to the US, Customs is going to have words.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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25. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 16:12 jdreyer
 
El Pit wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 01:44:
I'm all about going against people selling stuff they bought with stolen credit cards.

But
Regional fraud - Buying the game in 1 country and gifting it to someone in another.
is usually called "free market" when it comes to other goods... I guess there is a special protection for games here - a good that was made at one price in one country (not produced regionally at cheaper prices to be sold cheaper regionally) but is sold at different prices in other countries. Some might call regional pricing the regional fraud. GOG went against this for some time and offered store credit to all buyers that got shafted because of regioanl pricing - I guess the Factorio guys will sue GOG next?

Regional pricing of a good that is not regionally produced is, as The Donald would put it, unfair. Stop it and this problem will be solved. And I hope they also get all those criminals stealing credit card credentials and put them in jail - but I doubt it.

And if regional pricing is about "but the people there would pirate it because they can not afford the price the game should actually cost", then please make it also cheaper for all poor people in the rich countries! Then I might actually start to believe that argument - currently I cannot.

Well, except that other goods that travel from country to country are subject to shipping costs, import quotas, tariffs, etc. Most markets are regulated. Software keys are not. That's a huge difference.
 
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24. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 16:08 jdreyer
 
DarkCntry wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 21:57:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 20:23:
Sorry but cross-region reselling isn't illegal regardless of quantity. Publishers and devs don't like it but that doesn't make it fraud.

As for the delay in G2A's response, it takes time to check 300+ keys against the sales history on the site, especially if they don't have any tools specifically designed to do that. If they don't have any tools for that, they should definitely buy/make some.

If my memory serves, it would more than likely be classed as wire fraud...so yes, illegal.

You're going to tell me that G2A doesn't have the ability to search a table for a specific string within a reasonable amount of time? I mean, there are refrigerators out there that can take a picture and catalog their contents within 5 minutes...how hard can it be to peruse a table of keys looking for a specific string of alphanumerics?

I'm sorry, your constant defense of this obviously shady company is really starting to become tiresome...your whole argument relies on the basis that the reason the Devs are upset is because they don't want anyone to be able to resell their keys, which is a strawman at best and completely asinine at worst. How many articles do you need where Devs have flat out stated that their sole issue with G2A is G2A's inabillity and inaction in regards to protecting the developers from fraudulent sales on their site?

There have been 2 articles over the last couple years in regards to how G2A have seriously hurt indie devs and how G2A shows absolutely no compassion in regards to fixing simple issues outside of going "we're going to work harder" or "if Devs give us legitimacy we'll work with them more!"

Teh SQL iz Hardz:

Select * from KeyTable KT
inner join GameTable GT
where KT.KeyNum in (key0001, key0002, key0003) AND
GT.GameName = "Factorio"


My SQL is super rusty, so I probably have some syntax wrong, but it's something as simple as that.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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23. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 16:04 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 20:42:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 20:28:
Holy shit, the chargeback fee to the Developer/Publisher is $20 !?!? That's insane! Is that automatically filed by the credit card companies when a customer reports a suspicious charge? It seems like that could potentially bankrupt small studios.
It has and blue has posted horror stories about it.
It's just one of the reasons indies don't sell games themselves.

Trust me, it if was easy to sell the game yourself then EVERY indie studio would do it.


Your memory is probably better than mine. What was that story from a few years back about the indie (sole proprietor?) that sold his own keys and got slammed with chargebacks?
 
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22. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 16:03 jdreyer
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 20:23:

As for the delay in G2A's response, it takes time to check 300+ keys against the sales history on the site, especially if they don't have any tools specifically designed to do that. If they don't have any tools for that, they should definitely buy/make some.

But only if 100 devs pledge to send in keys to check! Building key checking software is expensive!
 
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21. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 06:11 roguebanshee
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 02:55:
Red886 wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 00:41:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 21:38:
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 18:27:
Resale for commercial purposes does require Sales Tax/VAT being applied to the new sales, thinking that any tax collection agency would see purchasing 40+ anything to resell at a later date as a non-commercial use is quite frankly naive.

Selling any amount of anything is a commercial use. That doesn't make it taxable. Go on eBay and you'll see plenty of people selling large quantities of items without charging tax. G2A is essentially the eBay for PC games.

dude, you do know that these resellers don't even 'exist'.

if these resellers actually do 'exist' , then they need to get a proper business license (of whichever form that is relevant).

Again, a quick glance at eBay shows that resellers very much do exist regardless of whether they have a proper business license. I don't see the government shutting them down so apparently they're allowed to resell hundreds and thousands of items without charging tax.
Some people breaking the law does not make it ok for others to also break the law.
 
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20. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 02:55 Jerykk
 
Red886 wrote on Jul 15, 2019, 00:41:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 21:38:
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 18:27:
Resale for commercial purposes does require Sales Tax/VAT being applied to the new sales, thinking that any tax collection agency would see purchasing 40+ anything to resell at a later date as a non-commercial use is quite frankly naive.

Selling any amount of anything is a commercial use. That doesn't make it taxable. Go on eBay and you'll see plenty of people selling large quantities of items without charging tax. G2A is essentially the eBay for PC games.

dude, you do know that these resellers don't even 'exist'.

if these resellers actually do 'exist' , then they need to get a proper business license (of whichever form that is relevant).

Again, a quick glance at eBay shows that resellers very much do exist regardless of whether they have a proper business license. I don't see the government shutting them down so apparently they're allowed to resell hundreds and thousands of items without charging tax.
 
Avatar 20715
 
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19. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 15, 2019, 00:41 Red886
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 21:38:
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 18:27:
Resale for commercial purposes does require Sales Tax/VAT being applied to the new sales, thinking that any tax collection agency would see purchasing 40+ anything to resell at a later date as a non-commercial use is quite frankly naive.

Selling any amount of anything is a commercial use. That doesn't make it taxable. Go on eBay and you'll see plenty of people selling large quantities of items without charging tax. G2A is essentially the eBay for PC games.

dude, you do know that these resellers don't even 'exist'.

if these resellers actually do 'exist' , then they need to get a proper business license (of whichever form that is relevant).







 
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18. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 14, 2019, 21:38 Jerykk
 
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 18:27:
Resale for commercial purposes does require Sales Tax/VAT being applied to the new sales, thinking that any tax collection agency would see purchasing 40+ anything to resell at a later date as a non-commercial use is quite frankly naive.

Selling any amount of anything is a commercial use. That doesn't make it taxable. Go on eBay and you'll see plenty of people selling large quantities of items without charging tax. G2A is essentially the eBay for PC games.
 
Avatar 20715
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 14, 2019, 18:27 roguebanshee
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 15:46:
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 07:05:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 03:55:
"Wire fraud?" What are you talking about? They buy the games in bulk from regions where they are significantly cheaper, then resell them globally at a higher price (but still cheaper than MSRP). Again, there's absolutely nothing illegal about that.
It technically circumvents regional taxation (sales tax/VAT), which is fraud. The keys being sold are registered as being sold by the developer in a different country than where they're resold for profit. And the resale for profit via G2A almost certainly does not include any taxes.

1) Don't distribute keys to anyone except verified reviewers or influencers.
This takes a lot more work than most indie studios have budget for, especially since "verified reviewers or influencers" tend to have a lot of things going on already, which takes away time for them to check out a game they may not have heard about. So unless you have enough money to get a sponsored video up, larger influencers and big review sites are a crapshoot at best.

This means that the developer would then have to spend a lot of time researching smaller influencers (which means a smaller potential audience) instead of eg. fixing bugs or polishing the game. Outside the most successful Indie studios, Indies don't have enough income to keep a non-developer/artist on staff for tasks like this.

2) Region-lock your games.
Region locking games means that legitimate users can't gift to actual friends in a different and/or more expensive region (depending on the type of region lock used). It's something people have complained about many times, even on this forum.

If the keys were legally purchased, then all relevant taxes were paid at the time of purchase in the region they were purchased from.
Resale for commercial purposes does require Sales Tax/VAT being applied to the new sales, thinking that any tax collection agency would see purchasing 40+ anything to resell at a later date as a non-commercial use is quite frankly naive.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
16. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 14, 2019, 15:46 Jerykk
 
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 07:05:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 03:55:
"Wire fraud?" What are you talking about? They buy the games in bulk from regions where they are significantly cheaper, then resell them globally at a higher price (but still cheaper than MSRP). Again, there's absolutely nothing illegal about that.
It technically circumvents regional taxation (sales tax/VAT), which is fraud. The keys being sold are registered as being sold by the developer in a different country than where they're resold for profit. And the resale for profit via G2A almost certainly does not include any taxes.

1) Don't distribute keys to anyone except verified reviewers or influencers.
This takes a lot more work than most indie studios have budget for, especially since "verified reviewers or influencers" tend to have a lot of things going on already, which takes away time for them to check out a game they may not have heard about. So unless you have enough money to get a sponsored video up, larger influencers and big review sites are a crapshoot at best.

This means that the developer would then have to spend a lot of time researching smaller influencers (which means a smaller potential audience) instead of eg. fixing bugs or polishing the game. Outside the most successful Indie studios, Indies don't have enough income to keep a non-developer/artist on staff for tasks like this.

2) Region-lock your games.
Region locking games means that legitimate users can't gift to actual friends in a different and/or more expensive region (depending on the type of region lock used). It's something people have complained about many times, even on this forum.

If the keys were legally purchased, then all relevant taxes were paid at the time of purchase in the region they were purchased from. As for resales, they typically don't involve taxes for most products. If I buy a DVD from Walmart and resell it, I don't have to charge tax because I already paid the tax when I bought it. This is not unique to G2A.

If you don't have time to verify all of the people you're giving keys to, then limit your keys to people you trust. Sorry if I can't feel sympathetic to indie devs who hand out keys nilly willy, then get mad when some of those keys are resold.

If you want to restrict cross-region reselling then you have to use region-locking. It's that simple. Yes, that hurts customers but restricting reselling hurts customers anyway. You're trying to control pricing so you can force customers to pay more.
 
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15. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 14, 2019, 12:32 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
FloorPie wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 22:04:

I've noticed I'm getting hit with foreign exchange fees thru paypal managed credit card charges now on one of my cards for GoG purchases which means I'm paying $1-3 more for games in some cases.


Slightly off topic: I am currently in the US, and buy things off Gog, via Paypal balance. This avoids the fees and/or your credit card company blocking the foreign charge. The More You Know! *Rainbow*

I usually keep about $50 or so in Paypal balance, mainly for GoG games.


*Disclaimer: Use strong passwords, never use the same password for multiple sites, use different emails, etc.
 
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14. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 14, 2019, 07:05 roguebanshee
 
Jerykk wrote on Jul 14, 2019, 03:55:
DarkCntry wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 21:57:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 20:23:
Sorry but cross-region reselling isn't illegal regardless of quantity. Publishers and devs don't like it but that doesn't make it fraud.

As for the delay in G2A's response, it takes time to check 300+ keys against the sales history on the site, especially if they don't have any tools specifically designed to do that. If they don't have any tools for that, they should definitely buy/make some.

If my memory serves, it would more than likely be classed as wire fraud...so yes, illegal.

You're going to tell me that G2A doesn't have the ability to search a table for a specific string within a reasonable amount of time? I mean, there are refrigerators out there that can take a picture and catalog their contents within 5 minutes...how hard can it be to peruse a table of keys looking for a specific string of alphanumerics?

I'm sorry, your constant defense of this obviously shady company is really starting to become tiresome...your whole argument relies on the basis that the reason the Devs are upset is because they don't want anyone to be able to resell their keys, which is a strawman at best and completely asinine at worst. How many articles do you need where Devs have flat out stated that their sole issue with G2A is G2A's inabillity and inaction in regards to protecting the developers from fraudulent sales on their site?

There have been 2 articles over the last couple years in regards to how G2A have seriously hurt indie devs and how G2A shows absolutely no compassion in regards to fixing simple issues outside of going "we're going to work harder" or "if Devs give us legitimacy we'll work with them more!"

"Wire fraud?" What are you talking about? They buy the games in bulk from regions where they are significantly cheaper, then resell them globally at a higher price (but still cheaper than MSRP). Again, there's absolutely nothing illegal about that.
It technically circumvents regional taxation (sales tax/VAT), which is fraud. The keys being sold are registered as being sold by the developer in a different country than where they're resold for profit. And the resale for profit via G2A almost certainly does not include any taxes.

1) Don't distribute keys to anyone except verified reviewers or influencers.
This takes a lot more work than most indie studios have budget for, especially since "verified reviewers or influencers" tend to have a lot of things going on already, which takes away time for them to check out a game they may not have heard about. So unless you have enough money to get a sponsored video up, larger influencers and big review sites are a crapshoot at best.

This means that the developer would then have to spend a lot of time researching smaller influencers (which means a smaller potential audience) instead of eg. fixing bugs or polishing the game. Outside the most successful Indie studios, Indies don't have enough income to keep a non-developer/artist on staff for tasks like this.

2) Region-lock your games.
Region locking games means that legitimate users can't gift to actual friends in a different and/or more expensive region (depending on the type of region lock used). It's something people have complained about many times, even on this forum.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
13. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 14, 2019, 03:55 Jerykk
 
DarkCntry wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 21:57:
Jerykk wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 20:23:
Sorry but cross-region reselling isn't illegal regardless of quantity. Publishers and devs don't like it but that doesn't make it fraud.

As for the delay in G2A's response, it takes time to check 300+ keys against the sales history on the site, especially if they don't have any tools specifically designed to do that. If they don't have any tools for that, they should definitely buy/make some.

If my memory serves, it would more than likely be classed as wire fraud...so yes, illegal.

You're going to tell me that G2A doesn't have the ability to search a table for a specific string within a reasonable amount of time? I mean, there are refrigerators out there that can take a picture and catalog their contents within 5 minutes...how hard can it be to peruse a table of keys looking for a specific string of alphanumerics?

I'm sorry, your constant defense of this obviously shady company is really starting to become tiresome...your whole argument relies on the basis that the reason the Devs are upset is because they don't want anyone to be able to resell their keys, which is a strawman at best and completely asinine at worst. How many articles do you need where Devs have flat out stated that their sole issue with G2A is G2A's inabillity and inaction in regards to protecting the developers from fraudulent sales on their site?

There have been 2 articles over the last couple years in regards to how G2A have seriously hurt indie devs and how G2A shows absolutely no compassion in regards to fixing simple issues outside of going "we're going to work harder" or "if Devs give us legitimacy we'll work with them more!"

"Wire fraud?" What are you talking about? They buy the games in bulk from regions where they are significantly cheaper, then resell them globally at a higher price (but still cheaper than MSRP). Again, there's absolutely nothing illegal about that.

You're being intentionally dense. Yes, devs have complained about keys being obtained with stolen credit cards and then resold. They've also complained about cross-region reselling, bundle reselling and giveaway reselling. The fact that Wube refers to cross-region reselling as "regional fraud" despite its objective legality pretty much says it all. Publishers and developers don't want any unauthorized reselling regardless of legality. They want absolute control over pricing and unauthorized reselling undermines that. However, the notion that resales require authorization in the first place is patently absurd regardless of what pubs and devs want. If I legally obtain a key, I'm allowed to sell it at whatever price I want.

If you're an indie dev and you want absolute control over pricing, you should do the following:
1) Don't distribute keys to anyone except verified reviewers or influencers.
2) Region-lock your games.
 
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12. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 14, 2019, 01:44 El Pit
 
I'm all about going against people selling stuff they bought with stolen credit cards.

But
Regional fraud - Buying the game in 1 country and gifting it to someone in another.
is usually called "free market" when it comes to other goods... I guess there is a special protection for games here - a good that was made at one price in one country (not produced regionally at cheaper prices to be sold cheaper regionally) but is sold at different prices in other countries. Some might call regional pricing the regional fraud. GOG went against this for some time and offered store credit to all buyers that got shafted because of regioanl pricing - I guess the Factorio guys will sue GOG next?

Regional pricing of a good that is not regionally produced is, as The Donald would put it, unfair. Stop it and this problem will be solved. And I hope they also get all those criminals stealing credit card credentials and put them in jail - but I doubt it.

And if regional pricing is about "but the people there would pirate it because they can not afford the price the game should actually cost", then please make it also cheaper for all poor people in the rich countries! Then I might actually start to believe that argument - currently I cannot.
 
They're waiting for you, Gabe, in the test chamber!
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11. Re: Factorio Seeks G2A Chargeback Refund Jul 13, 2019, 22:04 FloorPie
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jul 13, 2019, 20:28:
Holy shit, the chargeback fee to the Developer/Publisher is $20 !?!? That's insane! Is that automatically filed by the credit card companies when a customer reports a suspicious charge? It seems like that could potentially bankrupt small studios.

I'm honestly surprised that various digital entertainment companies don't charge people fees to use a credit card. The outcry of anger probably keeps them tolerating the expense. I've noticed I'm getting hit with foreign exchange fees thru paypal managed credit card charges now on one of my cards for GoG purchases which means I'm paying $1-3 more for games in some cases.

If you've ever bought a gun in the USA, you'll learn quickly that gun stores make little to no money on selling new guns, its all made in accessories. Margins are razor thin in many industries. Much like MS or Sony selling their hardware at a loss and making it up on game software.

I have very little sympathy for game companies when it comes to regional pricing anymore though. Thats the pain of living in a "global economy" especially with digital goods that you don't really own unless you go DRM free route. Nevermind the endless DLC/season pass games they all play to maximize profits.
 
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