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Op Ed

VG247 - Epic Games is so aggressive because it wants the PC games market to itself.
"So why is Epic so aggressive, even after taking into account the potential consequences for developers and crowdfunding platforms? Why is the focus on securing games instead of creating a better service than Steam? To understand that, let’s talk about diapers…"

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36 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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36. Re: Op Ed Jul 15, 2019, 02:56 Ant
 
Hahaha. Epic has to prove it.  
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Ant's Quality Foraged Links (http://aqfl.net) & The Ant Farm (http://antfarm.ma.cx / http://antfarm.home.dhs.org).
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35. Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2019, 02:19 jdreyer
 
This thread is still going?  
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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34. Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2019, 19:59 Sepharo
 
I've gotta a bunch of games on EGS at this point...
but ain't nobody going to tell me that exclusives are good thing for consumers,
and I'm not going to prefer EGS until it's better than Steam...
but apparently preferring the better platform is bad and being mad about exclusives is bad and a lot of people will spend a lot of time to tell me this.
 
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33. Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2019, 19:44 Verno
 
Yes let's quote Derek Smart, the biggest laugh in the industry, as if he has wisdom to offer a peer who has made a billion dollars. Or frankly anyone else for that matter.

Tim Sweeney is a savvy business man who doesn't give a shit about consumers or developers for that matter. But you better support him otherwise you're a TRIBALIST!! RRARRR TRIBAL BAD U BAD GUY NOW! No I don't think I will go out of my way to help Tim buy his latest Ferrari when hes putting forth such a shitty effort to earn my money. And anyone telling me how to spend my hard earned money can fuck right off. You want to use the EGS? No one is stopping you, stop proselytizing to the rest of us. Like a fuckin cult, people say Steam users are bad lol, steam users do nothing but bitch about Steam.
 
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32. Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2019, 17:33 RedEye9
 
edit
not worth it Wink
 
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“If the government is covering up knowledge of aliens, they are doing a better job of it than they do at anything else.”
- Stephen Hawking
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31. Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2019, 16:32 Creston
 
Bye toolshed.
 
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30. removed Jul 11, 2019, 11:48 RedEye9
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jul 11, 2019, 19:55.
 
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“If the government is covering up knowledge of aliens, they are doing a better job of it than they do at anything else.”
- Stephen Hawking
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29. removed Jul 11, 2019, 10:35 Creston
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jul 12, 2019, 09:14.
 
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28. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 23:08 Jerykk
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 14:56:
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:39:
They will keep doing exclusives until either

1) They are number 1 in sales.
2) Their Fortnite money fountain runs out.

Steam is clearly betting on 2 happening way before 1, but for some reason people just keep on playing fortnite.

It'll stop long before they're #1. They'll do it until a rational person willingly uses them. That won't happen until they have feature parity, or close to it. But once people are ok with EGS, this will all end. They're well aware that no one would pick EGS over Steam now, but once there's near parity, there'd be no true reason not to (which doesn't mean everyone would, but it's closer.)

Epic clearly has no interest in feature parity. Sweeney has even gone on record stating that he doesn't want to match Steam's feature set and sees most of it as superfluous. Epic has no shortage of cash, with Fortnite, Unreal Engine and Tencent all providing plenty of funding, yet they've completely dropped the ball on their feature roadmap and have yet to even implement cloud saves. Improving the customer-side experience obviously isn't a priority for them.

Epic wants to achieve market dominance by simply undermining its competitors, hence all the exclusives. It is entirely focused on catering (i.e. giving large amounts of money) to developers and publishers over customers.

You're making a lot of assumptions that aren't really supported by reality. The PS4 has been the market leader this entire generation and yet Sony continues to do shit like timed DLC exclusivity, refusal to support cross-platform multiplayer, etc. If Epic somehow became market leader, you can rest assured that they would continue to hurt competitors in any way possible.
 
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27. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 14:56 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:39:
They will keep doing exclusives until either

1) They are number 1 in sales.
2) Their Fortnite money fountain runs out.

Steam is clearly betting on 2 happening way before 1, but for some reason people just keep on playing fortnite.

It'll stop long before they're #1. They'll do it until a rational person willingly uses them. That won't happen until they have feature parity, or close to it. But once people are ok with EGS, this will all end. They're well aware that no one would pick EGS over Steam now, but once there's near parity, there'd be no true reason not to (which doesn't mean everyone would, but it's closer.)
 
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26. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 14:47 RedEye9
 
Sepharo wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 14:41:
Says he hasn't bought a game on Steam in 6 years.
Accused of tribalism.

Who's who?
What's what?
Buying or uses, no difference in my book.

Thanks for playing and focusing on the immaterial part of the conversation. :jupitersizedeyerollgifemoji:
 
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“If the government is covering up knowledge of aliens, they are doing a better job of it than they do at anything else.”
- Stephen Hawking
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25. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 14:41 Sepharo
 
Says he hasn't bought a game on Steam in 6 years.
Accused of tribalism.

Who's who?
 
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24. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 14:23 RedEye9
 
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 12:44:
So let's hear it then. What, according to your infinite wisdom, is EGS' endgame. What's their goal they are trying to achieve?

This ought to be good.
It is good because it's what's really going on.

"This was never about beating Steam. It's about disrupting it enough to carve out a portion of a multi-billion Dollar industry. Starving Steam of content isn't going to kill it. In fact, it's akin to Disney pulling Marvel content off Netflix. They'll survive it."

full version

I know that doesn't align w/your rabid tribalism, but oh well.
 
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“If the government is covering up knowledge of aliens, they are doing a better job of it than they do at anything else.”
- Stephen Hawking
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23. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 12:44 Creston
 
So let's hear it then. What, according to your infinite wisdom, is EGS' endgame. What's their goal they are trying to achieve?

This ought to be good.
 
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22. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 10:58 RedEye9
 
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:55:
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:53:
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:39:
They will keep doing exclusives until ..
1) They are number 1 in sales.

Oh ffs
We're gonna need a bigger boat eyeroll. The brain mush Shits getting deep.

Do you ever get a complimentary handjob back? Or is it just a one-way street? I feel like you're being taken advantage of, man, you should talk to somebody about that. They have professionals that can help.
Keep your head level lest the mush spill out your ears. Grin
 
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“If the government is covering up knowledge of aliens, they are doing a better job of it than they do at anything else.”
- Stephen Hawking
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21. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 10:55 Creston
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:53:
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:39:
They will keep doing exclusives until ..
1) They are number 1 in sales.

Oh ffs
We're gonna need a bigger boat eyeroll. The brain mush Shits getting deep.

Do you ever get a complimentary handjob back? Or is it just a one-way street? I feel like you're being taken advantage of, man, you should talk to somebody about that. They have professionals that can help.
 
Avatar 15604
 
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20. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 10:53 RedEye9
 
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:39:
They will keep doing exclusives until ..
1) They are number 1 in sales.

Oh ffs
We're gonna need a bigger boat eyeroll. The brain mush Shits getting deep.
 
Avatar 58135
 
“If the government is covering up knowledge of aliens, they are doing a better job of it than they do at anything else.”
- Stephen Hawking
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19. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 10:39 Creston
 
Beamer wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 10:00:
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 08:52:
By "every store," you mostly mean the publishers' own stores, right?
Steam really is over 90% of the market, so of course it's what they're focusing on. If they steal 100% of the market share from GOG and Humble Bundle they still have, what, 3% of the total market? Maybe less? Add in UPlay, Origin, etc., and it's 5%?

How does that invalidate what I said, dude? They sell their keys (now) on GMG, Humble, the games are still on the publishers' own stores, by Sweeney's own tweets they're looking at selling on more stores, but they aren't on Steam. I'm not sure why market share invalidates the concept that clearly they are 'waging war' (metaphorically) against Steam and Steam alone.

Taking from them is utterly meaningless. It's like trying to build a competitor to Windows by focusing on OS/2 users.

Again, that doesn't invalidate what I said.

Except for the headline of the article we're discussing. And the concluding paragraph. Both imply Epic's goal is to put Steam out of business, which is ludicrous. However, Jerykk seems to agree in the post I quoted, and further down, you seem to agree that its goal is to "replace Steam," or at least your concern is it replacing Steam, which seems to be a weird thing to be concerned about.

Replace Steam as the #1 client, yes, most certainly, though certain rabid developers (aka the imbecile known as Randy Pitchford) are apparently fervently hoping for Steam to go up in ashes. If that came across as "replace Steam and Steam ceases to exist", that was not my intent, so apologies if it appeared that way.

Legally, no, but I'm not making the legal argument. Functionally, yes. This site is power users, and what percentage of games do you think people here play that don't involve Steam? I'd be shocked if it's 10%. Some of the online-only games don't touch Steam, but virtually every other major PC game does. A huge chunk use Steam as their backend, and even ones using something like uPlay as it are still bought far more frequently on Steam than on, well, uPlay.

Right, but that's USAGE. I can't really help using Steam for the majority of my games, because the majority of my games need Steam to run. A far better question to ask, imo, is how many people here BUY their games solely on Steam? Because other than stuff in sales which I buy because I can't be bothered to look elsewhere to see if it's a dollar cheaper, I haven't BOUGHT an actual game on Steam in like six years. I buy them everywhere BUT Steam. So how is that a monopoly? Steam gives away free keys to its store without ever seeing a dime from that, but they do provide the bandwidth and the patching etc. which is fucking incredible. But they pay for that from their regular 30% cut. (I will say that it appears as if Epic is now slowly going to start doing the same though we'll see if it really becomes a thing. It's one thing to gives keys to Humble, it's another to allow tens of thousands of keys to be sold elsewhere so you don't see a dime but you are still footing the bill for all the bandwidth and all the patching work.)

Which is one of my main points about Epic being a shittier client. Sure, we're 'forced' to use Steam right now in a lot of cases, but using Steam has become quite a boon to gaming. There's tons of shit I can do in Steam which is super useful to me as a gamer. Want a mod? Click on Subscribe, boom, done. Want to backup the game to replay later? Four clicks and it's done. Play with other people and use chat? Simple. Stream for your friends? Simple. No other client has these options. Uplay, Origin, GOG, etc, they all pretty much have little to none of those options. EGS has very few of these options, and since every client other than Steam has never bothered to build out these kind of options, I'm rather doubtful EGS will ever do either.

(Btw, I get all of that without Steam having seen a dime off of me for new games in years. Queue the EGS fanboy horde bleating about how fucking terrible Steam is for PC gaming because the poor publisher doesn't make more money.)


Is it a strawman? Reread the quote I put up from Jerykk - how else do you construe it? He's saying they want to "replace Steam," which I construe as meaning "have more than 90% of the market"

That's one guy and one clickbait article. Also, Steam may have 90% of the usage market (which I doubt, to be honest, but whatever), but they sure as hell don't have 90% of the sales.

and goes on to say "considering its complete lack of features, paltry selection and complete disregard towards consumer interests," which I construe to mean that he sees this state going forward and them not building features or selection.

We'll see. Sweeney's roadmap was followed very quickly by him saying that they had to "postpone" it because they needed to devote time to building the actual required mp infrastructure for Borderlands 3. Understandable, but so far they are still a barren wasteland, feature-wise, compared to Steam. So we'll see how much of that roadmap gets put in place.

And now you're saying "replaced Steam" with something shittier. You just said I made a strawman, but now you're talking about Steam essentially going away despite EGS not building feature parity.

No, that's not what I mean. I mean EGS replaces Steam as the #1 usage client, but I should have made that more clear, so sorry. So even if I buy a game elsewhere (if and when that becomes as prevalent as it's been on Steam), I have to use EGS to play it.

I don't really care who gets the money for the sales, whether that's Steam or EGS or GMG or GOG (preferably GOG or Humble, but whatever), but I do not look forward to a possible future where EGS becomes the default usage client, because let's face it, for a publisher that 18% is a BIG incentive, and then I have to play all future games on a (currently) far shittier client that has little to none of all the conveniences that the Steam client offers.

And I'm sorry, until EGS actually HAS those features in place, I'm going to remain skeptical that they'll get there. The paint hadn't dried on their roadmap yet when they already tweeted they had to delay said roadmap because of X. What's the next X?



How would that even happen? The only possible way that happens, the only single way, is to keep doing exclusives, which you just said no one is claiming they'll do. So how do you see them "replacing" Steam without building feature parity or exclusives? Because I see no path to that, and therefore complaining about it is like complaining that the sky is blue instead of yellow.

Fair enough, I should have been more clear.

In any case, I do think that IF Epic stops doing exclusives prematurely, everyone except the most rabid EGS Shareholder fanboy immediately goes back to Steam, so I don't really buy this argument that the exclusives are just for a year or so either. They will keep doing exclusives until either

1) They are number 1 in sales.
2) Their Fortnite money fountain runs out.

Steam is clearly betting on 2 happening way before 1, but for some reason people just keep on playing fortnite.
 
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18. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 10:00 Beamer
 
Creston wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 08:52:

Except... keeping all the exclusives it's buying on every store EXCEPT Steam? What if Steam stubbornly sticks to 30%, do you think after a year Epic is just going to be "oh, oh well, I guess our strongarm tactics didn't work. Let's all embrace Steam again!"



By "every store," you mostly mean the publishers' own stores, right?
Steam really is over 90% of the market, so of course it's what they're focusing on. If they steal 100% of the market share from GOG and Humble Bundle they still have, what, 3% of the total market? Maybe less? Add in UPlay, Origin, etc., and it's 5%?

Taking from them is utterly meaningless. It's like trying to build a competitor to Windows by focusing on OS/2 users.

I don't think anyone here has said they want a near monopoly,

Except for the headline of the article we're discussing. And the concluding paragraph. Both imply Epic's goal is to put Steam out of business, which is ludicrous. However, Jerykk seems to agree in the post I quoted, and further down, you seem to agree that its goal is to "replace Steam," or at least your concern is it replacing Steam, which seems to be a weird thing to be concerned about.

which Steam most certainly DOESN'T have.

Legally, no, but I'm not making the legal argument. Functionally, yes. This site is power users, and what percentage of games do you think people here play that don't involve Steam? I'd be shocked if it's 10%. Some of the online-only games don't touch Steam, but virtually every other major PC game does. A huge chunk use Steam as their backend, and even ones using something like uPlay as it are still bought far more frequently on Steam than on, well, uPlay.


And I don't think anybody has said they're going to keep doing exclusives forever, so it's a beautiful little straw man you're kicking there.

Is it a strawman? Reread the quote I put up from Jerykk - how else do you construe it? He's saying they want to "replace Steam," which I construe as meaning "have more than 90% of the market" and goes on to say "considering its complete lack of features, paltry selection and complete disregard towards consumer interests," which I construe to mean that he sees this state going forward and them not building features or selection. Otherwise, it's a ridiculous thing to say, as EGS would never "replace" Steam without exclusives, features, or selection. Jerykk isn't an idiot, so he's implying EGS keeps one of those.
So no, not really a strawman, it's what I was responding to.

We'll have replaced Steam, which isn't perfect but it's pretty good, with a far, far, far shittier client, owned by a company that has long given the PC gaming market a big fucking middle finger.

And now you're saying "replaced Steam" with something shittier. You just said I made a strawman, but now you're talking about Steam essentially going away despite EGS not building feature parity. How would that even happen? The only possible way that happens, the only single way, is to keep doing exclusives, which you just said no one is claiming they'll do. So how do you see them "replacing" Steam without building feature parity or exclusives? Because I see no path to that, and therefore complaining about it is like complaining that the sky is blue instead of yellow.

 
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http://www.deathwishinc.com
http://www.hydrahead.com
http://www.painkillerrecords.com
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17. Re: Op Ed Jul 10, 2019, 09:54 Creston
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 10, 2019, 09:45:
If only blue had eyeroll emoji's the size of Jupiter.

If only. You'd get so many with your brainless parroting of Tim Sweeney's marketing materials.
 
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