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AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews

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39. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 15:02 CJ_Parker
 
chickenboo wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 12:49:
Ozmodan wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 10:17:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
After all this hyped, they are still not 1 inch closer to beat intel in games. At this point, it can not be the hardware, because in optimized tests it's 3% faster than intel in single core IPC. So is this a compiler optimization issue? Is there a review actually touching on this?

Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

Hard to tell with initial reviews, goint to wait a bit and see what turns up. At least if money is an issue, AMD owns Intel.

We need frame time examinations. 9900k is +2.5% better at 1440p than the 3700X. In pure FPS that is absolutely negligible - you're going from 125 to 130, or from 240 to 243. But if 3700x provides a smoother game experience with fewer dropped frames and better frame times, the "lower" FPS would be worth it for a more stable less jittery game experience.

Computerbase has average frametime scores.

The 9900K leads the pack in 1080p. The 3900X is 1% behind, the 3700X 2% so it's basically a tie, the 3600 drops off a more significant 7%.

In 4K the 9900K also leads the pack again, followed by the 3700X at 2% behind, the 3900X at 3% behind and the 3600 is 8% slower.

It varies quite a bit depending on the game, e.g. in Metro Exodus and Far Cry New Dawn the 9900K pulls WAY ahead at +20%/+22% while it falls behind by -13% and -10% in Kingdom Come Deliverance and Resident Evil 2 respectively when compared to the 3900X.

Against the 3700X, the 9900K is 26% faster in Far Cry New Dawn and 16% in Metro Exodus while being 14% slower in KCD and 9% slower in RE2.

All other frametimes are within a +/- 5% range for the most part.

This comment was edited on Jul 8, 2019, 15:13.
 
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38. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 12:49 chickenboo
 
Ozmodan wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 10:17:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
After all this hyped, they are still not 1 inch closer to beat intel in games. At this point, it can not be the hardware, because in optimized tests it's 3% faster than intel in single core IPC. So is this a compiler optimization issue? Is there a review actually touching on this?

Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

Hard to tell with initial reviews, goint to wait a bit and see what turns up. At least if money is an issue, AMD owns Intel.

We need frame time examinations. 9900k is +2.5% better at 1440p than the 3700X. In pure FPS that is absolutely negligible - you're going from 125 to 130, or from 240 to 243. But if 3700x provides a smoother game experience with fewer dropped frames and better frame times, the "lower" FPS would be worth it for a more stable less jittery game experience.
 
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37. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 10:17 Ozmodan
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
After all this hyped, they are still not 1 inch closer to beat intel in games. At this point, it can not be the hardware, because in optimized tests it's 3% faster than intel in single core IPC. So is this a compiler optimization issue? Is there a review actually touching on this?

Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

Hard to tell with initial reviews, goint to wait a bit and see what turns up. At least if money is an issue, AMD owns Intel.
 
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36. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 09:30 eRe4s3r
 
Osc8r wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 08:19:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 04:28:
Osc8r wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 02:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

From memory tomshardware did civ 6 AI times which may be somewhat comparable?

The problem with CIV6 is that it is too short to really tell us anything. Turns in WH2 are around 30 to 300 seconds (yes, that span is real).... and if Ryzen has boost issues or the new mainboards have issues then it would be very far from 50 seconds ^^

They definitely aren't short on larger maps with multiple AI opponents in the late game...it's kinda frustrating at times waiting minutes for the AI to finish reach of their turns, so I definitely feel you there! (nukes help a lot though)

But you are right, the way they tested it during the reviews don't tell you much on second look...the times are way too short. Though I guess it kinda does at least give you an indicator of which CPU would perform best if nothing else...

Yeah, I am actually a bit confused why reviewers don't benchmark these things where memory and platform issues could crop up. They all review the CPU, but nobody properly reviews the *platform* as a whole. Not even reviews that mention the platform that would be most interesting (ie. x570 + Ryzen3)

Where PCI-E 4.0 has already made me worried about SSD's.. because I've seen the power rating on that, I am not putting a passive cooled NVMe SSD in a x570 that's for damn sure.
 
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35. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 09:13 Verno
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
After all this hyped, they are still not 1 inch closer to beat intel in games. At this point, it can not be the hardware, because in optimized tests it's 3% faster than intel in single core IPC. So is this a compiler optimization issue? Is there a review actually touching on this?

Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

There's some speculation about scheduler issues but honestly some of it is just pure clock speed. Intel can all-core boost to 5ghz, that's a big advantage. This is compounded by the fact that some games actually perform worse with SMT enabled (Hitman 2 for example) which hurts AMD more than Intel.

It's not like its bad, overall its very good. Unless you're doing high refresh gaming at low resolutions you really will not notice the difference. They have closed the gap another 10-15% to near parity. You get a lot of bang for your buck with any 3000 series chip whereas with Intel you need to get the 9900k to get the total package. The 9700k is close but the lack of HT hampers it if you're doing anything other than gaming. You're also on a dead end platform whereas you get another potential upgrade if necessary with AM4.

I think the 3600 and the 3700X are the real value CPUs. You get a ton of bang for your buck at its price point, it's a killer deal.
 
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Playing: Fire Emblem Three Houses, Spider-Man, Subnautica Below Zero
Watching: The Expanse, Three Kingdoms, The Curse of La Llorona
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34. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 08:19 Osc8r
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 04:28:
Osc8r wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 02:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

From memory tomshardware did civ 6 AI times which may be somewhat comparable?

The problem with CIV6 is that it is too short to really tell us anything. Turns in WH2 are around 30 to 300 seconds (yes, that span is real).... and if Ryzen has boost issues or the new mainboards have issues then it would be very far from 50 seconds ^^

They definitely aren't short on larger maps with multiple AI opponents in the late game...it's kinda frustrating at times waiting minutes for the AI to finish reach of their turns, so I definitely feel you there! (nukes help a lot though)

But you are right, the way they tested it during the reviews don't tell you much on second look...the times are way too short. Though I guess it kinda does at least give you an indicator of which CPU would perform best if nothing else...
 
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33. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 07:32 TheEmissary
 
Osc8r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 21:46:
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 20:46:
Osc8r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 19:02:
Hmmm... was honestly hoping for a little bit more.

Same here. The AMD fanbois said that Zen2 would "annihilate" or "curb-stomp" Intel but that hasn't really happened, especially not in gaming.

Now i'm undecided, 3900 or a 9900 with a little overclock. Gaming is pretty much all the PC will do.

Will be paired with a 2800ti and running 3440 widescreen. Aiming to make the PC as silent as possible as well.

If you are buying now then I'd consider AMD. In spite of the beefy 2080Ti, you will be GPU-limited when playing at ultra settings most of the time. The CPU is not that important anyway.

An AMD platform *might* be more future-proof. AMD promised that socket AM4 would last until 2020 so it is possible that Ryzen 4000 CPUs will also work on current boards.
Intel OTOH is definitely end of the road. 9900K + Z390 board = guaranteed dead end.

However, AMD also said at the Zen 2 reveal that it was "challenging" to make Zen 2 compatible with the current socket so maybe they were hinting at the end of the AM4 socket next year. If they introduced a new socket in 2020 it would not even technically be a "lie" because AM4 did last until 2020.

The "silent as possible" part could be problematic with Zen 2. Almost all X570 boards have an active chipset fan. Some are throttling (esp. MSI boards), some aren't.
German site Computerbase claimed that the unthrottled 2500rpm chipset fan on the Asus Crosshair Hero is "inaudible" but I call extreme bullshit on that. It would be the first 2500rpm fan in computing history that is inaudible. They probably had an open setup and weren't in a silent room to begin with.
And let's not even get started with regard to longevity... that 2500rpm fan is likely to turn into a buzz saw in ~2 to 3 years.

I'd say very careful research is advisable, i.e. wait for X570 board reviews and user reviews.
The X570 boards are also expensive as fuck by the way. The Asus Crosshair Hero is €425 while the Intel Z390 equivalent Asus Maximus Hero is "only" €289.

For a silence lover it might make more sense to simply buy a decent X470 board which is much cheaper, too. There shouldn't be any performance loss according to AMD but one might want to wait for X470/Zen 2 reviews to be sure.

Wouldn't mind pcie4 for future proofing, but not sure if it's worth paying more for it?

Nah. Check out this link from the 5700XT reviews:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pci-express-4-0-performance-scaling-radeon-rx-5700-xt/

There was also a test of the m.2 Corsair PCIe 4.0 SSD somewhere around here and it hit new highs in synthetic benchmarks. Real world difference is non-existent though unless you constantly copy large, contiguous files between SSDs for some reason.


Thanks mate, appreciate the input - i keep going back and forth, but as i said, no real hurry so may end up waiting a month or two before pulling the trigger. Who knows, maybe intel will drop their prices in response to actually having some competition for once!

Seems one reviewer bricked their 3900x already just by trying an auto overclock, that and the motherboard fan turned me off, as you mentioned.

On the flip side, i know i'm buying the end of the line with Intel, and i would like a bit of a change.

If i go the AMD route i don't think i'd bother with OC anyway, especially as i want it to be quiet. If i went the 9900 i'd probably put a dark rock pro 4 on there with a minor boost.

Hmmm...

Though if i was smart i'd probably just buy the new GPU and monitor then hold off till 2020...


I saw that video review as well. I think it comes down to the fact that even though the cpus have the precision boost overdrive and other automated overclocking its not supported. In a number of a videos AMD straight up tells you it voids your warranty to use it. So it would be nice if reviewers would mention that fact.

The Ryzen X series cpus don't have a whole lot of headroom to overclock.
 
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32. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 04:28 eRe4s3r
 
Osc8r wrote on Jul 8, 2019, 02:03:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

From memory tomshardware did civ 6 AI times which may be somewhat comparable?

The problem with CIV6 is that it is too short to really tell us anything. Turns in WH2 are around 30 to 300 seconds (yes, that span is real).... and if Ryzen has boost issues or the new mainboards have issues then it would be very far from 50 seconds ^^
 
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31. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 8, 2019, 02:03 Osc8r
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 23:18:
Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.

From memory tomshardware did civ 6 AI times which may be somewhat comparable?
 
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30. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 23:18 eRe4s3r
 
After all this hyped, they are still not 1 inch closer to beat intel in games. At this point, it can not be the hardware, because in optimized tests it's 3% faster than intel in single core IPC. So is this a compiler optimization issue? Is there a review actually touching on this?

Also I wish benchmarks for CPU would include the end-turn time in Warhammer 2 mortal empires.
 
Avatar 54727
 
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29. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 21:46 Osc8r
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 20:46:
Osc8r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 19:02:
Hmmm... was honestly hoping for a little bit more.

Same here. The AMD fanbois said that Zen2 would "annihilate" or "curb-stomp" Intel but that hasn't really happened, especially not in gaming.

Now i'm undecided, 3900 or a 9900 with a little overclock. Gaming is pretty much all the PC will do.

Will be paired with a 2800ti and running 3440 widescreen. Aiming to make the PC as silent as possible as well.

If you are buying now then I'd consider AMD. In spite of the beefy 2080Ti, you will be GPU-limited when playing at ultra settings most of the time. The CPU is not that important anyway.

An AMD platform *might* be more future-proof. AMD promised that socket AM4 would last until 2020 so it is possible that Ryzen 4000 CPUs will also work on current boards.
Intel OTOH is definitely end of the road. 9900K + Z390 board = guaranteed dead end.

However, AMD also said at the Zen 2 reveal that it was "challenging" to make Zen 2 compatible with the current socket so maybe they were hinting at the end of the AM4 socket next year. If they introduced a new socket in 2020 it would not even technically be a "lie" because AM4 did last until 2020.

The "silent as possible" part could be problematic with Zen 2. Almost all X570 boards have an active chipset fan. Some are throttling (esp. MSI boards), some aren't.
German site Computerbase claimed that the unthrottled 2500rpm chipset fan on the Asus Crosshair Hero is "inaudible" but I call extreme bullshit on that. It would be the first 2500rpm fan in computing history that is inaudible. They probably had an open setup and weren't in a silent room to begin with.
And let's not even get started with regard to longevity... that 2500rpm fan is likely to turn into a buzz saw in ~2 to 3 years.

I'd say very careful research is advisable, i.e. wait for X570 board reviews and user reviews.
The X570 boards are also expensive as fuck by the way. The Asus Crosshair Hero is €425 while the Intel Z390 equivalent Asus Maximus Hero is "only" €289.

For a silence lover it might make more sense to simply buy a decent X470 board which is much cheaper, too. There shouldn't be any performance loss according to AMD but one might want to wait for X470/Zen 2 reviews to be sure.

Wouldn't mind pcie4 for future proofing, but not sure if it's worth paying more for it?

Nah. Check out this link from the 5700XT reviews:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pci-express-4-0-performance-scaling-radeon-rx-5700-xt/

There was also a test of the m.2 Corsair PCIe 4.0 SSD somewhere around here and it hit new highs in synthetic benchmarks. Real world difference is non-existent though unless you constantly copy large, contiguous files between SSDs for some reason.


Thanks mate, appreciate the input - i keep going back and forth, but as i said, no real hurry so may end up waiting a month or two before pulling the trigger. Who knows, maybe intel will drop their prices in response to actually having some competition for once!

Seems one reviewer bricked their 3900x already just by trying an auto overclock, that and the motherboard fan turned me off, as you mentioned.

On the flip side, i know i'm buying the end of the line with Intel, and i would like a bit of a change.

If i go the AMD route i don't think i'd bother with OC anyway, especially as i want it to be quiet. If i went the 9900 i'd probably put a dark rock pro 4 on there with a minor boost.

Hmmm...

Though if i was smart i'd probably just buy the new GPU and monitor then hold off till 2020...

 
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28. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 21:43 RedEye9
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 18:27:
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 15:01:
Now when do we get the only review that matters
3700x v 3800x

Is that so I can laugh at your electricity guzzling proc for a few meagre point percentage gains?

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately after watching Wendel's struggles with getting a consistent Linux experience on Level1Linux, I have to defer my upgrade by at least a month. Wife is going in for surgery tomorrow and her aftercare is going to require a large portion of my time. So she's much more important and the upgrade can wait til I have the free time.
Jesus dude, no wonder fedora ain't launching and the 5700 ain't rocking. WENDELLS MUSIC SUX ASS
I'd never seen him before, looked like he was having a blast. Idea

Hope all goes according to plan w/your better half.
PS If you see the lights flicker you'll know I got my 3800x up and running.
 
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"The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." Neil deGrasse Tyson
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27. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 20:59 Cutter
 
Simon Says wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 17:32:
You change the incentives, you change the priorities, you change the outcome, doesn't take a doctorate to understand that. The private's incentives aren't to minimize the state's and citizens expenses, it's to maximize them for profit. The outcome isn't hard to predict... increased prices.

Thanks for the info. And sorry for your situation, it sucks big time!

Exactly. Same reason we get F'd in the A on auto insurance. Anything mandatory or a public necessity should always be run by gov't or have complete oversight and rates set by gov't. Even within Ontario rates can vary wildly. Brampton, for example, costs 65% more to insure in than the rest of the province on average. It's legalized extortion. Healthcare, car insurance, energy, internet/phone should all be heavily regulated, if not run, by government. Contrary to what the conservative boneheads cry I don't recall a single case of privatization of a major sector like this where it got cheaper and better - improved service and competition - for consumers. It always gets worse. I don't think everything should be government run just the stuff that's too important to be left to vulture capitalists.

 
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"Ah, Impressionists, the boy bands of the art world." - Sideshow Bob
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26. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 20:46 CJ_Parker
 
Osc8r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 19:02:
Hmmm... was honestly hoping for a little bit more.

Same here. The AMD fanbois said that Zen2 would "annihilate" or "curb-stomp" Intel but that hasn't really happened, especially not in gaming.

Now i'm undecided, 3900 or a 9900 with a little overclock. Gaming is pretty much all the PC will do.

Will be paired with a 2800ti and running 3440 widescreen. Aiming to make the PC as silent as possible as well.

If you are buying now then I'd consider AMD. In spite of the beefy 2080Ti, you will be GPU-limited when playing at ultra settings most of the time. The CPU is not that important anyway.

An AMD platform *might* be more future-proof. AMD promised that socket AM4 would last until 2020 so it is possible that Ryzen 4000 CPUs will also work on current boards.
Intel OTOH is definitely end of the road. 9900K + Z390 board = guaranteed dead end.

However, AMD also said at the Zen 2 reveal that it was "challenging" to make Zen 2 compatible with the current socket so maybe they were hinting at the end of the AM4 socket next year. If they introduced a new socket in 2020 it would not even technically be a "lie" because AM4 did last until 2020.

The "silent as possible" part could be problematic with Zen 2. Almost all X570 boards have an active chipset fan. Some are throttling (esp. MSI boards), some aren't.
German site Computerbase claimed that the unthrottled 2500rpm chipset fan on the Asus Crosshair Hero is "inaudible" but I call extreme bullshit on that. It would be the first 2500rpm fan in computing history that is inaudible. They probably had an open setup and weren't in a silent room to begin with.
And let's not even get started with regard to longevity... that 2500rpm fan is likely to turn into a buzz saw in ~2 to 3 years.

I'd say very careful research is advisable, i.e. wait for X570 board reviews and user reviews.
The X570 boards are also expensive as fuck by the way. The Asus Crosshair Hero is €425 while the Intel Z390 equivalent Asus Maximus Hero is "only" €289.

For a silence lover it might make more sense to simply buy a decent X470 board which is much cheaper, too. There shouldn't be any performance loss according to AMD but one might want to wait for X470/Zen 2 reviews to be sure.

Wouldn't mind pcie4 for future proofing, but not sure if it's worth paying more for it?

Nah. Check out this link from the 5700XT reviews:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pci-express-4-0-performance-scaling-radeon-rx-5700-xt/

There was also a test of the m.2 Corsair PCIe 4.0 SSD somewhere around here and it hit new highs in synthetic benchmarks. Real world difference is non-existent though unless you constantly copy large, contiguous files between SSDs for some reason.

 
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25. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 20:40 Creston
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 18:27:
Wife is going in for surgery tomorrow and her aftercare is going to require a large portion of my time. So she's much more important and the upgrade can wait til I have the free time.

Dang man, hope everything goes okay!
 
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24. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 20:36 Creston
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 16:49:
Creston wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 16:12:
I couldn't find it so quickly in the few links that I clicked. Anyone know what the difference would be if I upgrade from a 1700 (@ 3.5GHZ) to a 3700X/3800X whatever?
It would be significant https://www.anandtech.com/show/14605/the-and-ryzen-3700x-3900x-review-raising-the-bar/17

waiting for the 3800x reviews.

Thanks dude!
 
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23. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 20:22 Osc8r
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 19:45:
Osc8r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 19:02:
Hmmm... was honestly hoping for a little bit more.

Now i'm undecided, 3900 or a 9900 with a little overclock. Gaming is pretty much all the PC will do.

Will be paired with a 2800ti and running 3440 widescreen. Aiming to make the PC as silent as possible as well.

Wouldn't mind pcie4 for future proofing, but not sure if it's worth paying more for it? (amd cpu is $20 more in AUD, motherboard TBA still).

Decisions decisions.

Good job getting back in the game though AMD, now stay in it! And tell your GPU department to wake up.
Post your build when you're done.

haha, yeah, it's been a while so i'm going to take my time... plus the planning itself can be rather enjoyable in itself.

Pretty much set on a MSI GeForce RTX 2080 Ti GAMING X TRIO 11GB and a Acer X34P, just waiting on some sales.

Probably going to re-use my RAM, water cooling, fractal case, ae5 soundcard and 970 pro m2 ssd (unless pcie4).

Totally undecided about the rest now though! Was really hoping the 3900x would have knocked it out of the park :/
 
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22. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 19:45 jdreyer
 
Osc8r wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 19:02:
Hmmm... was honestly hoping for a little bit more.

Now i'm undecided, 3900 or a 9900 with a little overclock. Gaming is pretty much all the PC will do.

Will be paired with a 2800ti and running 3440 widescreen. Aiming to make the PC as silent as possible as well.

Wouldn't mind pcie4 for future proofing, but not sure if it's worth paying more for it? (amd cpu is $20 more in AUD, motherboard TBA still).

Decisions decisions.

Good job getting back in the game though AMD, now stay in it! And tell your GPU department to wake up.
Post your build when you're done.
 
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The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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21. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 19:02 Osc8r
 
Hmmm... was honestly hoping for a little bit more.

Now i'm undecided, 3900 or a 9900 with a little overclock. Gaming is pretty much all the PC will do.

Will be paired with a 2800ti and running 3440 widescreen. Aiming to make the PC as silent as possible as well.

Wouldn't mind pcie4 for future proofing, but not sure if it's worth paying more for it? (amd cpu is $20 more in AUD, motherboard TBA still).

Decisions decisions.

Good job getting back in the game though AMD, now stay in it! And tell your GPU department to wake up.
 
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20. Re: AMD Zen 2 CPU Reviews Jul 7, 2019, 18:45 HorrorScope
 
jdreyer wrote on Jul 7, 2019, 15:40:
Also, doesn't AMD have an advantage when it comes to stuff like Meltdown and Spectre?

I think more of this will be a focus in the upcoming days, there are patches that can hinder Intel and help AMD. Getting that all sort out and clearly explained will be interesting to see.
 
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