Shenmue III to "Assess" EGS Exclusivity

Kickstarter update from Ys Net, Epic Games and Deep Silver follows up to the recent news that Shenmue III will be a one-year exclusive on the Epic Games Store (thanks Eurogamer). This caused considerable backlash fuelled by previous indications there will be a Steam version of the action/adventure sequel. In a post made during E3 they acknowledge the outcry and while they don't actually say anything will change, they do say they would "assess the situation" once they were back from the show:
We want to make sure that the Backers are aware that we are listening to their concerns. We kindly ask all our fans to have some patience, we are currently at E3 demoing the game and need to get back to our respective offices to assess the situation and together find a way forward to justify the trust you placed in us.
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26.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 19, 2019, 09:14
Verno
 
26.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 19, 2019, 09:14
Jun 19, 2019, 09:14
 Verno
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:27:
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.

They sent out the Kickstarter based questionary where you decide which platform and version you want specifically, and people could pick Steam and picked steam. This selection is not optional, it's binding. If you as developer say you ship with nude blokes wearing a tiara then you have to deliver on that no matter what. Changing this post survey is a violation of the KS TOS. (This is also why these surveys come extremely late in development)

To boot, they offered PHYSICAL DVD versions, not with a code but with the actual game, which Deep Silver reneged on.

Finally, Deep Silver also reneged on the trial feat in the backer rewards. Backers do not receive an early trial anymore. So altogether really classy behavior by the parties involved.

I think you just don't know a lot how Kickstarters work to be honest, this survey you get from KS projects is an actual KS based thing which KS monitors. People were not just led to believe it comes on Steam, most people ALREADY PICKED THEIR PLATFORM months before this news. Not to mention the other things that they suddenly "forgot" they owe backers.

Yep exactly. They literally offered a locked in platform choice in that survey and that's what people are upset about.

Frankly I always thought this was dubious because they were fully funded by Sony and didn't need to do this at all.
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25.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 19, 2019, 02:23
25.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 19, 2019, 02:23
Jun 19, 2019, 02:23
 
Heh he, not worth it
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
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24.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 19, 2019, 01:30
Kxmode
 
24.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 19, 2019, 01:30
Jun 19, 2019, 01:30
 Kxmode
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:36:
It's even better than this, they sold exclusive first play rights to Backers ($100+) in the actual pledge, and showcased a playable version on E3 that they didn't give to Backers. So they didn't just renege on the deal, they fucked their backers over hard on that point.

This isn't so much amnesia as it is malicious asshattery as it would have cost them nothing to give backers the E3 demo.

I am honestly baffled they thought this would go over well. Their pledges are pretty funny reads when you consider Deepsilver already put to the wall that there will not be a physical PC DVD version because this violates the EPIC deal. LMAO

Except you miss the part on the active Kickstarter campaign where they listed, in bold, "Windows PC Physical Copy. Windows PC Digital Copy." They never explicitly said "Steam" as the platform. People assumed "Windows PC Digital Copy" meant Steam because Steam was the only non-publisher digital platform at the time.

However, Ys Net did not keep backers informed about what they were doing. In the end, the fault is squarely on Ys.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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23.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 19, 2019, 01:23
Kxmode
 
23.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 19, 2019, 01:23
Jun 19, 2019, 01:23
 Kxmode
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:30:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:27:
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.

They sent out the Kickstarter based questionary where you decide which platform and version you want specifically, and people could pick Steam and picked steam. This selection is not optional, it's binding. If you as developer say you ship with nude blokes wearing a tiara then you have to deliver on that no matter what. Changing this post survey is a violation of the KS TOS.

To boot, they offered PHYSICAL DVD versions, not with a code but with the actual game, which Deep Silver reneged on.

Finally, Deep Silver also reneged on the trial feat in the backer rewards. Backers do not receive an early trial anymore. So altogether really classy behavior by the parties involved.

I think you just don't know a lot how Kickstarters work to be honest, this survey you get from SK projects is an actual KS based thing which KS monitors. People were not just led to believe it comes on Steam, most people ALREADY PICKED THEIR PLATFORM months before this news. Not to mention the other things that they suddenly "forgot" they owe backers.
Money causes amnesia, news at eleven.

What's it like being a professional troll?
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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22.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 19, 2019, 01:22
Kxmode
 
22.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 19, 2019, 01:22
Jun 19, 2019, 01:22
 Kxmode
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:27:
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.

They sent out the Kickstarter based questionary where you decide which platform and version you want specifically, and people could pick Steam and picked steam. This selection is not optional, it's binding. If you as developer say you ship with nude blokes wearing a tiara then you have to deliver on that no matter what. Changing this post survey is a violation of the KS TOS. (This is also why these surveys come extremely late in development)

To boot, they offered PHYSICAL DVD versions, not with a code but with the actual game, which Deep Silver reneged on.

I wasn't talking about what happened after the Kickstarter campaign. I was specifically talking about the FAQ they posted for the campaign.

eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:27:
Finally, Deep Silver also reneged on the trial feat in the backer rewards. Backers do not receive an early trial anymore. So altogether really classy behavior by the parties involved.

Deep Silver wasn't a consideration during the Kickstarter campaign so stop bringing it up. It's not relevant to my post.

eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:27:
I think you just don't know a lot how Kickstarters work to be honest, this survey you get from KS projects is an actual KS based thing which KS monitors. People were not just led to believe it comes on Steam, most people ALREADY PICKED THEIR PLATFORM months before this news. Not to mention the other things that they suddenly "forgot" they owe backers.

I backed multiple Kickstarters including the Myst 25th Anniversary Kickstarter at the $250 level. I know how they work, and I am quite familiar with the surveys. I'm not referring to any of that.

I was specifically talking about the language on the campaign itself. It didn't mention "Steam." It merely said, "Windows PC Digital Copy." That's what people read when they backed. That said, I also said Ys Net is at fault for not managing backer expectations. If people expected Steam during the campaign, then they should honor it regardless of what happened years later.

This comment was edited on Jun 19, 2019, 01:33.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
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21.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 19, 2019, 01:09
Kxmode
 
21.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 19, 2019, 01:09
Jun 19, 2019, 01:09
 Kxmode
 
Acleacius wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 05:45:
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.
They explicitly let people think it would be on Steam as with 96%+ of all games. They did not come out ahead of time and let people know before they pledged, they hid the fact. They knew KS would have been a catastrophe, if that's clearer.

Let's be clear here. I made those points in BOTH of my posts. Here, I'll highlight the comments to make it explicitly clear:

Post 1: "The fault is really on Ys Net for not managing backer expectations."

Post 2: "[Ys net] are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault."
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
20.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 18, 2019, 12:01
Cram
 
20.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 18, 2019, 12:01
Jun 18, 2019, 12:01
 Cram
 
I found the whole thing weird from the start. Announcing a Kickstarter during Sony's E3 conference was strange - Sony was willing to give you substantial time during their E3 conference but you need a few million dollars from Kickstarter for some reason? If it was to gauge interest - they could have done that a number of different ways.

On another note, once this news broke out a lot of people started talking about how this bait and switch was specifically very illegal in the EU, and grounds for class action lawsuit. Is this true, and if so are there any rumblings of something happening on that front?

19.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 18, 2019, 10:36
19.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 18, 2019, 10:36
Jun 18, 2019, 10:36
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:30:
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:27:
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.

They sent out the Kickstarter based questionary where you decide which platform and version you want specifically, and people could pick Steam and picked steam. This selection is not optional, it's binding. If you as developer say you ship with nude blokes wearing a tiara then you have to deliver on that no matter what. Changing this post survey is a violation of the KS TOS.

To boot, they offered PHYSICAL DVD versions, not with a code but with the actual game, which Deep Silver reneged on.

Finally, Deep Silver also reneged on the trial feat in the backer rewards. Backers do not receive an early trial anymore. So altogether really classy behavior by the parties involved.

I think you just don't know a lot how Kickstarters work to be honest, this survey you get from SK projects is an actual KS based thing which KS monitors. People were not just led to believe it comes on Steam, most people ALREADY PICKED THEIR PLATFORM months before this news. Not to mention the other things that they suddenly "forgot" they owe backers.
Money causes amnesia, news at eleven.

It's even better than this, they sold exclusive first play rights to Backers ($100+) in the actual pledge, and showcased a playable version on E3 that they didn't give to Backers. So they didn't just renege on the deal, they fucked their backers over hard on that point.

This isn't so much amnesia as it is malicious asshattery as it would have cost them nothing to give backers the E3 demo.

I am honestly baffled they thought this would go over well. Their pledges are pretty funny reads when you consider Deepsilver already put to the wall that there will not be a physical PC DVD version because this violates the EPIC deal. LMAO
Avatar 54727
18.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 18, 2019, 10:30
18.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 18, 2019, 10:30
Jun 18, 2019, 10:30
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 18, 2019, 10:27:
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.

They sent out the Kickstarter based questionary where you decide which platform and version you want specifically, and people could pick Steam and picked steam. This selection is not optional, it's binding. If you as developer say you ship with nude blokes wearing a tiara then you have to deliver on that no matter what. Changing this post survey is a violation of the KS TOS.

To boot, they offered PHYSICAL DVD versions, not with a code but with the actual game, which Deep Silver reneged on.

Finally, Deep Silver also reneged on the trial feat in the backer rewards. Backers do not receive an early trial anymore. So altogether really classy behavior by the parties involved.

I think you just don't know a lot how Kickstarters work to be honest, this survey you get from SK projects is an actual KS based thing which KS monitors. People were not just led to believe it comes on Steam, most people ALREADY PICKED THEIR PLATFORM months before this news. Not to mention the other things that they suddenly "forgot" they owe backers.
Money causes amnesia, news at eleven.
“The time has come for us to move beyond seeing public health as the ax in the display case, where the sign says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.”
Pandemics don’t end because the economy is suffering and we want them to.
Avatar 58135
17.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 18, 2019, 10:27
17.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 18, 2019, 10:27
Jun 18, 2019, 10:27
 
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.

They sent out the Kickstarter based questionary where you decide which platform and version you want specifically, and people could pick Steam and picked steam. This selection is not optional, it's binding. If you as developer say you ship with nude blokes wearing a tiara then you have to deliver on that no matter what. Changing this post survey is a violation of the KS TOS. (This is also why these surveys come extremely late in development)

To boot, they offered PHYSICAL DVD versions, not with a code but with the actual game, which Deep Silver reneged on.

Finally, Deep Silver also reneged on the trial feat in the backer rewards. Backers do not receive an early trial anymore. So altogether really classy behavior by the parties involved.

I think you just don't know a lot how Kickstarters work to be honest, this survey you get from KS projects is an actual KS based thing which KS monitors. People were not just led to believe it comes on Steam, most people ALREADY PICKED THEIR PLATFORM months before this news. Not to mention the other things that they suddenly "forgot" they owe backers.
Avatar 54727
16.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 18, 2019, 05:45
16.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 18, 2019, 05:45
Jun 18, 2019, 05:45
 
Kxmode wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:49:
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.
They explicitly let people think it would be on Steam as with 96%+ of all games. They did not come out ahead of time and let people know before they pledged, they hid the fact. They knew KS would have been a catastrophe, if that's clearer.

It's pretty clear deep silver is letting people think their games will be on Steam, as long as they can to increase sales. They are shady pieces of shit.
“The failure of normal empathy, is central to sociopathy, which is marked by an absence of guilt, intentional manipulation and controlling or even sadistically harming others for personal power or gratification.”
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15.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 17, 2019, 22:49
Kxmode
 
15.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 17, 2019, 22:49
Jun 17, 2019, 22:49
 Kxmode
 
Acleacius wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 22:11:
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.

Except they didn't for all the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph from in my comment below. Yet, concurrently, they are at fault for not being transparent with their backers/customers. In the end it is their fault.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
14.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 17, 2019, 22:11
14.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 17, 2019, 22:11
Jun 17, 2019, 22:11
 
At the very least they intentionally misled customers.
“The failure of normal empathy, is central to sociopathy, which is marked by an absence of guilt, intentional manipulation and controlling or even sadistically harming others for personal power or gratification.”
Avatar 1858
13.
 
Re: Shenmue III
Jun 17, 2019, 15:08
Kxmode
 
13.
Re: Shenmue III Jun 17, 2019, 15:08
Jun 17, 2019, 15:08
 Kxmode
 
The Kickstarter doesn't explicitly mention Steam. It only states "Windows PC Physical Copy 4. Windows PC Digital Copy." Throughout the entire Kickstarter, the vague "Windows PC" appears. When the Kickstarter launched on June 16, 2015, Epic Games Store wasn't a thing. Steam was the only non-publisher digital PC platform. So the expectation from backers was "Windows PC Digital Copy" meant Steam.

The fault is really on Ys Net for not managing backer expectations. When they agreed to have Deep Silver publish/distribute their game they didn't bother to let backers know that there might be a risk that the game could go EGS exclusive (in hindsight with the fiasco with Deep Silver and Metro Exodus). However, had they said they needed the money to finish the game then I think a lot of backers would be amicable to the move. The problem is they didn't talk to their backers; the ones who helped create the game.
"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times." - Those Who Remain by G. Michael Hopf
Avatar 18786
12.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 17, 2019, 09:56
12.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 17, 2019, 09:56
Jun 17, 2019, 09:56
 
I will "assess" not buying this garbage-ass game.
Avatar 55267
11.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 17, 2019, 01:11
11.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 17, 2019, 01:11
Jun 17, 2019, 01:11
 
necrosis wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 21:04:
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:53:
Putting a game on EGS exclusively that got crowdfunded under the assumption that it would be available on Steam is pretty shitty.
My understanding Steam was never name dropped on the kickstarter.

To assume is the mother of all fuckups. Anyone getting all mad over this needs to get their head out of their asses.

I don't like the Epic store any more than the next person but down right stupidity is another thing.

Acleacius wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 16:28:
Fraud?
Read the kickstarter. Or is that difficult? No where does it even say the word steam.

Verno wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:56:
Yeah this one is indefensible regardless of how people feel about EGS vs Steam. Just a shitty move. I know some backers got refused refunds and have started doing chargebacks on their credit cards, I suspect that's why they made this announcement. Probably getting some blowback from Kickstarter about it.
Shitty move because they did not deliver on something that was not promised? Entitled much?


"Anyone getting all mad over this needs to get their head out of their asses."


Oh the irony...
10.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 16, 2019, 23:46
Cram
 
10.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 16, 2019, 23:46
Jun 16, 2019, 23:46
 Cram
 
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 23:19:
necrosis wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 21:04:
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:53:
Putting a game on EGS exclusively that got crowdfunded under the assumption that it would be available on Steam is pretty shitty.
My understanding Steam was never name dropped on the kickstarter.

To assume is the mother of all fuckups. Anyone getting all mad over this needs to get their head out of their asses.

I don't like the Epic store any more than the next person but down right stupidity is another thing.

Acleacius wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 16:28:
Fraud?
Read the kickstarter. Or is that difficult? No where does it even say the word steam.

Verno wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:56:
Yeah this one is indefensible regardless of how people feel about EGS vs Steam. Just a shitty move. I know some backers got refused refunds and have started doing chargebacks on their credit cards, I suspect that's why they made this announcement. Probably getting some blowback from Kickstarter about it.
Shitty move because they did not deliver on something that was not promised? Entitled much?

Why the aggressive, accusatory, insulting response when you're clearly not even up to speed on the situation?

Was wondering the same thing. Steam was very much name dropped during the Kickstarters entire process; backers had the option to choose a Steam Key for their reward/perk/whatever.

One thing I want to add, which may be unpopular opinion though, is that Kickstarter makes it clear in their version of a TOS that rewards may change, shit can happen, and they won't be responsible for it. I think that's fair.
9.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 16, 2019, 23:19
NKD
9.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 16, 2019, 23:19
Jun 16, 2019, 23:19
NKD
 
necrosis wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 21:04:
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:53:
Putting a game on EGS exclusively that got crowdfunded under the assumption that it would be available on Steam is pretty shitty.
My understanding Steam was never name dropped on the kickstarter.

To assume is the mother of all fuckups. Anyone getting all mad over this needs to get their head out of their asses.

I don't like the Epic store any more than the next person but down right stupidity is another thing.

Acleacius wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 16:28:
Fraud?
Read the kickstarter. Or is that difficult? No where does it even say the word steam.

Verno wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:56:
Yeah this one is indefensible regardless of how people feel about EGS vs Steam. Just a shitty move. I know some backers got refused refunds and have started doing chargebacks on their credit cards, I suspect that's why they made this announcement. Probably getting some blowback from Kickstarter about it.
Shitty move because they did not deliver on something that was not promised? Entitled much?

Why the aggressive, accusatory, insulting response when you're clearly not even up to speed on the situation?
"Fuck off, bard." -Geralt of Rivia
Avatar 43041
8.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 16, 2019, 21:21
Verno
 
8.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 16, 2019, 21:21
Jun 16, 2019, 21:21
 Verno
 
Shitty move because they did not deliver on something that was not promised? Entitled much?

No, you misunderstand. Shitty move because they sent out a letter less than a month ago asking backers where they wanted their keys on - Steam and PS4 were the only options so people made their choices accordingly. Along with the whole Steam store page they clearly setup for the game. Yes those silly entitled backers, the few who have any faith left in Kickstarters

And yes they can put their game wherever they want and yes people should not Kickstart games along with other obvious comments. It still sucks and I hope people express their displeasure in the only way companies listen.
Playing: FF7R
Watching: The Last Dance
Avatar 51617
7.
 
Re: Shenmue III to
Jun 16, 2019, 21:14
7.
Re: Shenmue III to Jun 16, 2019, 21:14
Jun 16, 2019, 21:14
 
necrosis wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 21:04:
NKD wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:53:
Putting a game on EGS exclusively that got crowdfunded under the assumption that it would be available on Steam is pretty shitty.
My understanding Steam was never name dropped on the kickstarter.

To assume is the mother of all fuckups. Anyone getting all mad over this needs to get their head out of their asses.

I don't like the Epic store any more than the next person but down right stupidity is another thing.

Acleacius wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 16:28:
Fraud?
Read the kickstarter. Or is that difficult? No where does it even say the word steam.

Verno wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 13:56:
Yeah this one is indefensible regardless of how people feel about EGS vs Steam. Just a shitty move. I know some backers got refused refunds and have started doing chargebacks on their credit cards, I suspect that's why they made this announcement. Probably getting some blowback from Kickstarter about it.
Shitty move because they did not deliver on something that was not promised? Entitled much?
Not difficult, don't care enough, not involved. You know what a question mark is for, well that's how and why I used it.
“The failure of normal empathy, is central to sociopathy, which is marked by an absence of guilt, intentional manipulation and controlling or even sadistically harming others for personal power or gratification.”
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