Nidian wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 15:36:

Beamer wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 08:20:

Nidian wrote on Jun 17, 2019, 01:05:

Beamer wrote on Jun 16, 2019, 10:09:
Fact 1: what sarkeesian does us extremely common in every other form of art or entertainment, but only gamers find it offensive

Fact 2: there are very few strong female characters in games

I'll never understand why that's controversial to say, but it probably ties into fact 1. Somehow criticizing one part of games is an all out attack on all things games and gamers to some of you.

Fact 1 Correction: Only recently within the last few decades have people gotten an avenue to vent their frustrations in a public way that reaches far & wide like the internet. And games happen to be one of the biggest entertainment mediums on the planet right now overshadowing all others in comparison. So what you're trying to do is basically compare apples to oranges here.

Fact 2 response: Like it was pointed out earlier... most writers or developers can only create based on their own perspective. This is why so many people say "if you don't like it... go out & make a game yourself" because that is the only answer worth giving to those whose only complaints about fictional game characters &/or games blindly revolve around pulling the sex or race card.

I don't understand your Fact 1, which I suppose should be 3. How does it relate? Anita isn't a regular person, she's an academic media critic, which means she'd still have a platform with wide reach. That you now pay way more attention to her is kind of meaningless, that's on you. Not many others do. And that games is big is also meaningless - part of what makes them big is mobile, and she's not really criticizing mobile. You're adding way more importance to games, and putting them on a pedestal, because you personally like them. Again, this exact type of criticism was happening to movies in the 50s and earlier. No one was sending death threats then.

Your Fact 2, henceforth Fact 4, is funny. "These people are creatively simple, so they can't do any better!" If you can't write outside your own experiences, maybe you shouldn't be paid well to be a writer? And it isn't hard to simply add characters of some variety.

I just don't know why saying "hey, it would be nice if the demographics of our protagonists was closer to the demographics of our population" is "playing the sex or race card." Doesn't that feel weasely to you? And why is asking for better representation of our population so offensive and vulgar to you?

If you're going to strawman... don't waste my time.

One, what is the biggest difference between the 1950's & today? It's not hard & it was in my response to your fact 1. People... have... the... internet. It make's it easier to talk or complain to other people on a global scale. Also, if you wish to compare the demographics of gamers compared to other entertainment mediums... know that, right now, you are comparing little numbers to giant ones. As a result... discrepancies between them will be numerous. There has always been people in other entertainment mediums that find offense when their favorite past time is being attacked. The difference is numbers... & the internet.

Two, most gamers, that I have met, don't put weight or importance on the sex or race of the main character. It doesn't even register unless one of two criteria have been met first with any game. Is the storyline well written... or... is the gameplay fun. The only people that actually complain about these issues are the ones that are actively looking to be offended (i.e. Anita Sarkeesian).

And if you want to ignore writers being simple. That's your own ignorance... I could bring up a plethora of authors who are. People like Tolkien & such. But I'll go even further on this... let's look at J. K. Rowling for a moment. In the Harry Potter books, she only started adding diversity & changing things after her books were published. The books make no mention or even hint at anything she insinuates currently. So why the strong need to bring these insinuations up now? Because the books were written from her original perspective which was too simplistic from her current viewpoint. Since she wrote the books, she can make whatever changes she wants to them. But it does make her look extremely shallow.

1) Funny that you bring up JK Rowling. Is she a 10 year old boy? No? then she wrote outside her perspective. Didn't seem hard for her to do so

2) Yes, most don't put the weight or importance on sex or race. Because most are white. Do you know why people make fun of white as default? Because us white people just take it for granted and only notice when it's different. Generally, non-white non-males always notice.

3) You say Anita is trying to be offended. I think that you're trying to be offended. Her list is pretty simple, but here you are, all kinds of angry about it.