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15. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 15:24 RedEye9
 
So DDR4-3600 C16 or save $20 and go with the 3200.
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232194
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820231916
One less thing to check off the list.

Edit
Actually in this case the 3600 has tighter timings so I'd go that route. e-peen being what it is and all
Timing 16-16-16-36 vs 16-18-18-38
 
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14. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 15:04 CJ_Parker
 
Verno wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 12:29:
I'm also still trying to figure out what the optimal spot will be for memory speed.

Well, for gaming low latency is king and according to this official AMD slide you don't really want to go over DDR4-3733 because the ratio switches from 1:1 to 2:1 beyond 3733MHz.

You are getting the best latency at DDR4-3733 C17, though I guess the marginal 2ns difference when compared to DDR4-3200 C14 and DDR4-3600 C16 is negligible.

As far as testing goes, I hope we will see some in-depth articles exploring the claim on that slide that DDR4-4200 will work "with ease".

So far, even with Intel you need to get very lucky with your CPU, mainboard and RAM combo to pull off 4000MHz+ DDR4.
You usually need to increase the voltage quite a bit to the 1.4xV range (even if the RAM kit or its XMP profile claims 1.35V for e.g. 4133MHz) and you will also have to tinker with the VCCIO and SA voltages.

Sometimes the only way to get high frequency RAM to work is to get a board with only two RAM slots to remove as much interference from the RAM slots/channels as possible.
It would be quite impressive if AMD's "4200MHz with ease" claim is true because that would be a first.

On the other hand, this is mostly academic since as a gamer you'll want low latency rather than high frequency and 3733MHz is kind of the limit due to the Infinity Fabric ratio.
 
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13. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 13:09 RedEye9
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 12:20:
The 3000 series will have built-in OC of up to 200MHz via Precision Boost (on decent premium X570 mobos) so that is exactly where the benefit of the higher TDP will play a role. The 3800X will allow a higher boost w/o manual OC over the 3700X.

AMD aren't complete retards. I believe that people who think they are clever cheapskates by buying a 3700X and hoping it will OC just as well as a 3800X are going to be in for a rude awakening.

It's not my money though so don't really care... just a friendly warning that AMD isn't arbitrarily putting these TDP limits as labels on their SKUs.
The 3700X will most likely have built-in auto-throttling to maintain its 65W target while the 3800X is free to run wild and suck up to 105W outta the wall. With that 65W limit you ain't going far if you attempt to OC...
Yep, the 3800x will have more cores boosting for longer periods of time is my take on the increased TDP. And that equates to better gaming performance.
AMD typically bakes in the overclocking, pushing their chips as far as they can go leaving little for the home user to gain. I don't have a problem with that.
Either way we'll just have to wait for the test/benchmarks to comes in.

No hurry, CBP 2077 is a ways off. Wink
 
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12. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 12:29 Verno
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 12:20:
The 3000 series will have built-in OC of up to 200MHz via Precision Boost (on decent premium X570 mobos) so that is exactly where the benefit of the higher TDP will play a role. The 3800X will allow a higher boost w/o manual OC over the 3700X.

AMD aren't complete retards. I believe that people who think they are clever cheapskates by buying a 3700X and hoping it will OC just as well as a 3800X are going to be in for a rude awakening.

It's not my money though so don't really care... just a friendly warning that AMD isn't arbitrarily putting these TDP limits as labels on their SKUs.
The 3700X will most likely have built-in auto-throttling to maintain its 65W target while the 3800X is free to run wild and suck up to 105W outta the wall. With that 65W limit you ain't going far if you attempt to OC...

I'm just spitballing until we get more info and obviously we'll need to see benchmarks as well before I actually buy anything. I'm also still trying to figure out what the optimal spot will be for memory speed. I can't make up my mind if I want to just consolidate my build machine and my gaming PC using VMs and get the 12 or 16 core machine or keep them separated. I think keeping them separate probably makes more sense but VMs with passthru make this so tempting.
 
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11. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 12:20 CJ_Parker
 
The 3000 series will have built-in OC of up to 200MHz via Precision Boost (on decent premium X570 mobos) so that is exactly where the benefit of the higher TDP will play a role. The 3800X will allow a higher boost w/o manual OC over the 3700X.

AMD aren't complete retards. I believe that people who think they are clever cheapskates by buying a 3700X and hoping it will OC just as well as a 3800X are going to be in for a rude awakening.

It's not my money though so don't really care... just a friendly warning that AMD isn't arbitrarily putting these TDP limits as labels on their SKUs.
The 3700X will most likely have built-in auto-throttling to maintain its 65W target while the 3800X is free to run wild and suck up to 105W outta the wall. With that 65W limit you ain't going far if you attempt to OC...
 
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10. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 11:45 Verno
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 11:31:
When I think 'overclocking' I don't mean the "1-click and you're done" bios method. I'm more into the 'manual' tweaking of voltages/frequencies, and actually understanding what's going on, in the search of that extra 0.1 fps increase.

I prefer systems to be rock solid. Running a game does not guarantee that. Crashing after 2 hours of gaming means you don't know if it's the games fault or a faulty overclock.
Run 10+ hours of prime95 and at least you know your cpu (and possibly the memory) is stable.

So just manually tune the settings then like the rest of us, it doesn't take much longer. I usually don't bother with a torture test anymore unless I run into instability then I run both Aida64 and Prime95 to help narrow things down /shrug. Of course this is on my gaming PC because its for gaming. On my build/homelab its a different scenario.

Or don't OC at all I guess. I'm perfectly comfortable with it but if you just want a higher binned chip without any hassle then that's what they have another SKU for. Personally I really like the $329 SKU for the mid-range and think its represents the best value but that's just me.

In other news their new videocard pricing was super disappointing but expected.
 
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9. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 11:31 RedEye9
 
When I think 'overclocking' I don't mean the "1-click and you're done" bios method. I'm more into the 'manual' tweaking of voltages/frequencies, and actually understanding what's going on, in the search of that extra 0.1 fps increase.

I prefer systems to be rock solid. Running a game does not guarantee that. Crashing after 2 hours of gaming means you don't know if it's the games fault or a faulty overclock.
Run 10+ hours of prime95 and at least you know your cpu (and possibly the memory) is stable.
 
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8. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 11:18 Verno
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 10:54:
At the very least we should expect that the 3700X are inferior CPUs that did not make the 3800X cut in terms of quality/specs. It's going to be a binning thing at the fab which ones go in the 3700X and which ones go in the 3800X basket.
It would therefore be quite reasonable to expect the 3700X CPUs to be rather poor overclockers. If they were decent overclockers then they would carry the 3800X label. Simple as that.

Not yet. Obviously they will be binned chips but its a very modest 100mhz clock bump on the turbo. I'm hopeful and frankly $70 for a 100mhz bump is pretty poor value IMO. $329 for the specs is very good mid range value, if I'm stepping up instead then I'm really going the distance.

I'm done with o'clocking, I'll just spend the extra and save time

Thankfully OC'ing these days is incredibly easy and takes less than a few minutes. I just torture test with CPU intensive games instead of running Prime95 overnight.
 
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7. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 10:59 RedEye9
 
Verno wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 10:40:
I'm actually more a fan of the 3700X than the 3800X. For $70 I will just try to OC the small difference.
I'm done with o'clocking, I'll just spend the extra and save time.
Verno wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 06:38:
This thing is $750 so yeah, definitely not for most gamers.

3600X, 3700X and 3900X look solid.
Yeah, threadripper is not for gaming. Unless you're a streamer.
 
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6. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 10:54 CJ_Parker
 
Verno wrote on Jun 11, 2019, 10:40:
I'm actually more a fan of the 3700X than the 3800X. For $70 I will just try to OC the small difference.

Has there been any word on how the TDP is handled by the CPU? The only way it makes sense to even differentiate between the 3700X (65W TDP) and the 3800X (105W TDP) would be to kinda hard-lock it or everyone would simply buy the 3700X if you could easily drive that one up to 105W as well.

At the very least we should expect that the 3700X are inferior CPUs that did not make the 3800X cut in terms of quality/specs. It's going to be a binning thing at the fab which ones go in the 3700X and which ones go in the 3800X basket.
It would therefore be quite reasonable to expect the 3700X CPUs to be rather poor overclockers. If they were decent overclockers then they would carry the 3800X label. Simple as that.
 
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5. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 10:40 Verno
 
I'm actually more a fan of the 3700X than the 3800X. For $70 I will just try to OC the small difference.  
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4. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 10:16 CJ_Parker
 
16 cores at 105W TDP with dual channel RAM is dumb for gaming. This CPU will have a much lower all core clock than its 6/8 core brethren and it will be bottlenecked. The 3800X is the most interesting new CPU IMHO.

The new conslows, PS5 and that itchy Microsoft illness called Scarlet, will also only get 8 core custom CPUs again so there is no reason to expect games to all of a sudden start turning miraculously into multithreaded marvels of engineering. Not gonna happen. Six to eight fast cores will remain the sweet spot for gaming for many years to come.
 
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3. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 11, 2019, 06:38 Verno
 
This thing is $750 so yeah, definitely not for most gamers.

3600X, 3700X and 3900X look solid.
 
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2. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 10, 2019, 23:30 WaltC
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 10, 2019, 22:25:
In years past, Intel wouldn’t even acknowledge AMD existed but now...


Heh-heh...;) nice catch--Kind of funny--it's Ryzen 7 3800X Intel needs to worry about...;) The ad compares with AMD's last generation R7 2700X...;) Intel's been doing a lot of that lately! Competition is marvelous to see for a change!
 
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1. Re: Evening Tech Bits Jun 10, 2019, 22:25 RedEye9
 

In years past, Intel wouldn’t even acknowledge AMD existed but now...

 
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