* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on May 26, 2019, 22:41.

RedEye9 wrote on May 23, 2019, 15:26:

Acleacius wrote on May 23, 2019, 14:53:

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:
And what makes you think Sweeney isn't building a store based on quality and merit? It's just that building that takes time and money - looking at Steam, hundreds of millions over 15 years. Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

At least we agree he isn't qualified in anyway for the long term like Valve. Since he is bribing to force his way into a business, he isn't qualified to do, it really makes him unworthy.

No, he's not in agreement with you.
Either you deliberately twisted around what Beamer meant or you misunderstood the vernacular. He never once brought up qualifications in the snippet of a snippet you twisted around.

A better way to put it might be sweeney is Paying to Win. Or if he had a son named imweeney, who played Fortnite. imweeney offered the top 100 players $5000 each for a 'exclusive 1 year deal' where they would lose matches to him, so he could be the top ranked player.

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 11:53:
Here's the first Steam thread Blue posted Sadly, replace "steam" with "EGS" and that could be a somewhat modern thread here.

Here's the second or so. Lots of Steam hatred, lots of people angry at Valve, and a few people baffled as to why anyone would ever want to watch anyone play games (I agree, but man, the future sure disagreed.)

i dont agree with steam being the only option for dload...its not fair to the users.

Here's when Valve announced HL2 would require Steam going forward. Unsurprisingly, a few people claimed they'd boycott HL2.

Another thread with people claiming they'll boycott HL2 over Steam

People canceling B&M HL2 preorders over Steam

It's all just history repeating itself, and we've been through all of this before. Here, on this very site.

Thank you for taking the time and posting this. Yes, we have been here before.

Remember when we were all pissed off about having to install some third party shit just to play HL2? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

This comment was edited on May 24, 2019, 01:58.

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 11:22:

Did they have time? I don't think so. Unless they started building this in 2014, they have no chance to catch up to Valve.
Do they have money? Yes

I think they had plenty of time. And I'm the first one here to think someone armcharing like I'm about to doesn't know all sides of a story, but this all seems pretty clear to me so... they could have started this (with the full intent to make a full blown Steam competitor) by building it as a store front for all of the virtual items sold for Fortnight, then gotten to at least having basic things in place like a shopping cart (for ffs).

They'd then have that entire player base seeing a feature complete (or nearly), full-blown store form. Then add the news that they'll be carrying other titles with a 13% revenue split and huzzah! we have our competent Steam competitor!

I have to assume that would have given them much larger profit margins during the build up then whatever pile of money they must be giving out to do these exclusives. Even if they did the payed exclusives at that point I'd have enough trust in the development of the store front to use it.

I really don't get the mentality here of must needing to defend EGS's name no matter the cost! When A) the 13% take is obviously a race to the bottom to keep going for as long as they can afford to (due to their war chest from Fortnite). And B) the lack-luster state of the store drawing virtually no criticism from the pro-camp. It's ok to do so, it's not like Steam wins if an inch is given up in the course of the war here. Assuming the developers don't pull any antics Epic's not going anywhere, that much is clear.

Also don't get the sudden vilifying of anything Steam does these days. For example, Steam reviews are subject to abuse, but they're awesome for judging smaller titles where the reviews are genuine. If they can solve the bombing problem I'd much rather have reviews exist than not.

I welcome the competition but I'm not giving money to a store that's using it for this current course that heavily favors them over the customers. I'm not even bringing up some of the customer complaints I've read about account hacks and returns.

Well, here is some good news for the game and those who pre-ordered the game. This was announced just about an hour ago.

We understand that pre-order supporters were promised a Steam key for their pre-order purchase. To that end, we are offering every person that has pre-ordered RUNE II before 05/22/19 an additional Steam key containing all pre-order incentives, to be delivered when we launch on Steam in Summer 2020.

RedEye9 wrote on May 23, 2019, 15:26:

Acleacius wrote on May 23, 2019, 14:53:

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:
And what makes you think Sweeney isn't building a store based on quality and merit? It's just that building that takes time and money - looking at Steam, hundreds of millions over 15 years. Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

At least we agree he isn't qualified in anyway for the long term like Valve. Since he is bribing to force his way into a business, he isn't qualified to do, it really makes him unworthy.

No, he's not in agreement with you.
Either you deliberately twisted around what Beamer meant or you misunderstood the vernacular. He never once brought up qualifications in the snippet of a snippet you twisted around.

It was a little naughty of me wasn't it.
However it was 'kidding on the square', in the sense that sweeney 'does' have to bribe to have a chance at competing.

Acleacius wrote on May 23, 2019, 14:53:

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:
And what makes you think Sweeney isn't building a store based on quality and merit? It's just that building that takes time and money - looking at Steam, hundreds of millions over 15 years. Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

At least we agree he isn't qualified in anyway for the long term like Valve. Since he is bribing to force his way into a business, he isn't qualified to do, it really makes him unworthy.

No, he's not in agreement with you.
Either you deliberately twisted around what Beamer meant or you misunderstood the vernacular. He never once brought up qualifications in the snippet of a snippet you twisted around.

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:

Acleacius wrote on May 23, 2019, 08:57:
I've been a big supporter of Human Head. They've had a lot of tough breaks including the idiotic bethesda Prey 2 decision. I wish them well but no way I'm, joining this epic farce,
even for them.

Hell, I was a huge supporter of epic for 20+ years but sweeney's blown all that good will. As far as I can tell he is just a coward, to afraid to build a store based on quality and merit.

How do you know the Prey 2 decision was a bad one? We have so little evidence of what Human Head was doing.

And what makes you think Sweeney isn't building a store based on quality and merit? It's just that building that takes time and money - looking at Steam, hundreds of millions over 15 years. Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

Your entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. Most of us find games like Heretic, Hexen, Rune and Prey to be innovative, fun and high quality. Additionally bethesda seemed to be on a power bullying rage back then. Trying to buy developers like Obsidian, Human Head and id. Then blackballing them if they didn't sell. Can you think of a title by Human Head which was bad due to their workmanship?
Prey 2 - E3 2011 Cinematic Trailer (1080p)
Human Head's cancelled Prey 2 game had a disturbing plot twist
New Prototype Footage of Canceled Prey 2 has Leaked

Because egs is clearly a 'rushed out and fix later' piece of software. I don't need to read any of the links in your last post because I was one of the last people here to join Steam in 2011. I didn't trust them at first, wanting to make sure Steam was bug tested out and safe. Even if I was being a hypocrite (which I'm not) there would still be damn good reason to hold epic in high disregard. They seem to be literally bribing publishers and developers. There's a huge difference between isolating your own software (HL2) and bribing others. Not to mention when Valve did this they were pioneers and visionaries who have guided the industry for nearly two decades. Did they make mistakes...yes. Are they perfect...no.

Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

At least we agree he isn't qualified in anyway for the long term like Valve. Since he is bribing to force his way into a business, he isn't qualified to do, it really makes him unworthy.

Here's the first Steam thread Blue posted Sadly, replace "steam" with "EGS" and that could be a somewhat modern thread here.

Here's the second or so. Lots of Steam hatred, lots of people angry at Valve, and a few people baffled as to why anyone would ever want to watch anyone play games (I agree, but man, the future sure disagreed.)

i dont agree with steam being the only option for dload...its not fair to the users.

Here's when Valve announced HL2 would require Steam going forward. Unsurprisingly, a few people claimed they'd boycott HL2.

Another thread with people claiming they'll boycott HL2 over Steam

People canceling B&M HL2 preorders over Steam

It's all just history repeating itself, and we've been through all of this before. Here, on this very site.

This comment was edited on May 23, 2019, 12:26.

Darks wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:49:

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:

Acleacius wrote on May 23, 2019, 08:57:
I've been a big supporter of Human Head. They've had a lot of tough breaks including the idiotic bethesda Prey 2 decision. I wish them well but no way I'm, joining this epic farce,
even for them.

Hell, I was a huge supporter of epic for 20+ years but sweeney's blown all that good will. As far as I can tell he is just a coward, to afraid to build a store based on quality and merit.

How do you know the Prey 2 decision was a bad one? We have so little evidence of what Human Head was doing.

And what makes you think Sweeney isn't building a store based on quality and merit? It's just that building that takes time and money - looking at Steam, hundreds of millions over 15 years. Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

Come on Beamer, even you have to admit that when Steam was launched it had ten times more option s and features then Epics pos launcher has.

Theirs no excuse for them to have released it in its current state. It was pure laziness and greed to get it into the market first and then possibly fix it later.

And in all honesty, if you put it to a vote and let the consumer vote with their wallets. Steam would win this battle hands down. Tim Sweeney knows and fears this and why hes forcing exclusive titles onto the market. Because he knows his launcher would fail out of the gate.

Steam sucked in 2004. It had very few features and 3 games. It was terrible. We all hated it.

Epic is lacking features now, but for me, personally, it's only lacking 1 feature I care about: mods. And that's coming this summer, per their pipeline. In a year and a half, pretty much everything we want will be here. But they wouldn't spend that year and a half throwing money away on something that may not work, because this is an extremely expensive thing to build. And no one would use it now if not for the exclusives - every single person involved admits that. Kind of like no one would go to McDonald's if they could get the hamburger somewhere not seedy and shitty like most McDonald's are. They have a lot of money, but are limited by the time it takes to develop things, so they're solving the userbase problem one way as they build something compelling.

Getting angry over this seems dumb. I don't particularly like it, most people don't, but it's really ultimately meaningless to me right now, but could be very beneficial in a year or 3.

Drayth wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:57:

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:
It's just that building that takes time and money

Something they had plenty of before releasing it as-is.

Did they have time? I don't think so. Unless they started building this in 2014, they have no chance to catch up to Valve.
Do they have money? Yes, and they're actively spending it, but only an idiot spends hundreds of millions building something likely to fail. In nearly any business, minimum viable products go up and out so that they can build user counts, earn money, and be properly tested. Even games do Early Access now.

And while they do have money, and are spending it, it also comes back to time, because throwing more money at building software only speeds up development to a point.

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:
It's just that building that takes time and money

Something they had plenty of before releasing it as-is.

Beamer wrote on May 23, 2019, 10:29:

Acleacius wrote on May 23, 2019, 08:57:
I've been a big supporter of Human Head. They've had a lot of tough breaks including the idiotic bethesda Prey 2 decision. I wish them well but no way I'm, joining this epic farce,
even for them.

Hell, I was a huge supporter of epic for 20+ years but sweeney's blown all that good will. As far as I can tell he is just a coward, to afraid to build a store based on quality and merit.

How do you know the Prey 2 decision was a bad one? We have so little evidence of what Human Head was doing.

And what makes you think Sweeney isn't building a store based on quality and merit? It's just that building that takes time and money - looking at Steam, hundreds of millions over 15 years. Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

Come on Beamer, even you have to admit that when Steam was launched it had ten times more option s and features then Epics pos launcher has.

Theirs no excuse for them to have released it in its current state. It was pure laziness and greed to get it into the market first and then possibly fix it later.

And in all honesty, if you put it to a vote and let the consumer vote with their wallets. Steam would win this battle hands down. Tim Sweeney knows and fears this and why hes forcing exclusive titles onto the market. Because he knows his launcher would fail out of the gate.

Acleacius wrote on May 23, 2019, 08:57:
I've been a big supporter of Human Head. They've had a lot of tough breaks including the idiotic bethesda Prey 2 decision. I wish them well but no way I'm, joining this epic farce,
even for them.

Hell, I was a huge supporter of epic for 20+ years but sweeney's blown all that good will. As far as I can tell he is just a coward, to afraid to build a store based on quality and merit.

How do you know the Prey 2 decision was a bad one? We have so little evidence of what Human Head was doing.

And what makes you think Sweeney isn't building a store based on quality and merit? It's just that building that takes time and money - looking at Steam, hundreds of millions over 15 years. Uncertain how you expect Sweeney to get to that out the gate...

Not excited enough for this game to care about it being an exclusive. If anything, it lowers the chance of it being sold... The original was OKAY. I remember playing it a bit but that's just because title selection back then was limited when you had just about everything you could for the time, lol.

I don't care if this game is a real MMO or not, but it looks like this single player game had turned into a GaaS which I hate the most...

BTW, Anthem dev also said you can play that garbage in single player too...

I've been a big supporter of Human Head. They've had a lot of tough breaks including the idiotic bethesda Prey 2 decision. I wish them well but no way I'm, joining this epic farce,
even for them.

Hell, I was a huge supporter of epic for 20+ years but sweeney's blown all that good will. As far as I can tell he is just a coward, to afraid to build a store based on quality and merit.

Dravnt wrote on May 23, 2019, 01:41:
Gonna be honest: I've lost all interest in this for two reasons:

1) Epic store front exclusive
2) MMO (did a search online; appears they changed this game from being an epic single player experience to some sort of MMO)

Meh! Oh well, got a bunch of other great games to focus on.

Belive me, I'm really pissed about this decision. I have a big investment in Rune, I was the one who created the 4 players Coop mod for the game. I know these guys personally. And I'm really pissed off at Chris Reinhardt decision about cawing into bed with Epic.

I was in the beta, and I can tell you for a fact, this game plays nothing like the original Rune. I'm not a fan of the new style of game play it just feels off and bad.

But, the game does have an offline mode so you can play it solo if you want, other server options are coming. just not sure what at this point.

Going by that trailer, those UE4 enhanced graphics seem quite meh. Games released almost a decade ago look better in terms of texturing and animation than this.

Couldn't care less about which client I'd have to use, but hearing it's secretly an MMO or at least very online focused game is a bummer. I don't blame companies for going that route, it's where all the hype and attention is lately, but I'm just not interested.