Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem

Newsweek interviewed Chris Roberts as part of a Star Citizen preview. For some reason this diverged into how the Star Citizen director "Would Fix Anthem" after Koatku's rough postmortem of BioWare's recently released action/RPG. Apparently the thing he would fix is gamers, as he seems to feel the main issues here are expectations and prejudice against EA. This is also reflected in his comment on No Man's Sky: "The problem was players' expectations were so far beyond that." For Anthem, he admits to wishing for more content and depth, and that the game was not as dynamic as what was pitched. But while he excuses the developers for this, he's less forgiving of the audience. "A lot of gamers don't understand quite how difficult it is to deliver everything working flawlessly," he opines. "The expectations keep ramping up, and in some ways those expectations may be higher than people are humanly possible of always delivering." He also seems to think Electronic Arts is not getting a fair shake: "Part of the problem is that Anthem comes with the EA penalty so people are predisposed to hate on it because they feel EA messes everything up." He indicates he feels the developers of Star Citizen are avoiding these woes by better communicating with their audience, and not suffering release pressure from an external publisher.
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77 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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77.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 25, 2019, 17:13
77.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 25, 2019, 17:13
Apr 25, 2019, 17:13
 
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 00:43:
wait wait wait..

did this mother fucker really just blame anthems failure on the gamers expectation?

Requoting... I still can't believe this.
Avatar 57660
76.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 23, 2019, 03:50
76.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 23, 2019, 03:50
Apr 23, 2019, 03:50
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 23, 2019, 00:28:
Sepharo wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 21:47:
Kxmode wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 20:39:
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 20:36:
Being a hypocrite has never stopped eric smart from chiming in

Is Eric Smart, Derek's quiet brother?

That's what WaltC calls Jarek Smart.

How many brothers does Derek have?!

Quite a few, apparently. Met his brother Marek Smart in a bar in Atlanta once, and he bought me a drink of Romulan Ale.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
75.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 23, 2019, 03:48
75.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 23, 2019, 03:48
Apr 23, 2019, 03:48
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 18:25:
Kosumo wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 17:20:
So that is Chris view on NMS and Anthem - gamers had too high an expectations …… after paying ~$60 for the games.

So Chris, if people have paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars for DLC for an unreleased game, can they have high expectations that they will receive value for that money? What should their expectations be?

Chris, why are you selling stuff that you are unsure of if you can make it work flawlessly? Are you just going to say that if people are not happy with you product, that they should not have wanted so much?

He already said that. "As is true with most projects when the scope changes so do the timelines, you can't build a castle in the same time you would a woodshed no matter how much money or how many people you have. To try to make some kind of narrative about how we promised the game in two years no matter how big the scope grew is false. Could we have shipped a small scale 30 mission game in the old Wing Commander format in two years? Yes, but that's not the game the community wants or the game we're building." Source I'm pretty certain a small scale 30 mission game in the old Wing Commander format is precisely what most wanted. The endless array of stretch goals literally changed what the final game would become. That's not the fault of Gamers. That's the fault of Chris for scope-creeping his product into oblivion after a successful Kickstarter campaign. It is not unlike what BioWare devs did with iteration after iteration of Anthem until they were forced by EA to produce something.

Nobody asked for a facial tracking system that recorded your facial expressions via webcam and animated them on your avatar. That's gold-plating to the nth degree, and one of the LAST fucking things you do, not one of the first things. Chris Fucking Roberts, ship your fucking game.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
Avatar 22024
74.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Apr 23, 2019, 00:28
Kxmode
 
74.
Re: Out of the Blue Apr 23, 2019, 00:28
Apr 23, 2019, 00:28
 Kxmode
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 21:47:
Kxmode wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 20:39:
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 20:36:
Being a hypocrite has never stopped eric smart from chiming in

Is Eric Smart, Derek's quiet brother?

That's what WaltC calls Jarek Smart.

How many brothers does Derek have?!
"Listen, Peter... with great horsepower comes... the sickest drifts..." - source
Avatar 18786
73.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 21:47
73.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 21:47
Apr 22, 2019, 21:47
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 20:39:
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 20:36:
Being a hypocrite has never stopped eric smart from chiming in

Is Eric Smart, Derek's quiet brother?

That's what WaltC calls Jarek Smart.
Avatar 17249
72.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 20:39
Kxmode
 
72.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 20:39
Apr 22, 2019, 20:39
 Kxmode
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 20:36:
Being a hypocrite has never stopped eric smart from chiming in

Is Eric Smart, Derek's quiet brother?
"Listen, Peter... with great horsepower comes... the sickest drifts..." - source
Avatar 18786
71.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 20:36
71.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 20:36
Apr 22, 2019, 20:36
 
Being a hypocrite has never stopped eric smart from chiming in
“We’ve arranged a society on science and technology in which nobody understands anything about science and technology, and this combustible mixture of ignorance and power sooner or later is going to blow up in our faces." Carl Sagan
Avatar 58135
70.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 20:34
Kxmode
 
70.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 20:34
Apr 22, 2019, 20:34
 Kxmode
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 19:50:
Xactly. And for the PU with its 100 star systems it would have been fine to have maybe one more fleshed out system at launch and 99 2D kiosks like in Freelancer. They could have always converted those 99 systems into full-fledged 3D locations later.

Instead that dipshit chose to do things ass backwards by fleshing out one system to the point that the other 99 systems will never get done (at the same level of detail) in our lifetime. Really smart approach that. Not.

Exactly. It doesn't make Chris wrong for chiming in, but it does make him a hypocrite for saying what he would do better to another company's product when his project is a trash-heap, alpha-tech demo on its way to obsolescence. In other words, he shouldn't say anything until he gets his product to a state where 1) he can ship the promised product (and by promise, I mean the post-stretch-goal-scope-creeped-into-oblivion Frankenstein version) and 2) it is sustainable as a live service (which doesn't happen until it is live several months after the fact, and we can review it in hindsight). It's like Sean Murray talking about the morality of EA's marketing practices.
"Listen, Peter... with great horsepower comes... the sickest drifts..." - source
Avatar 18786
69.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 19:50
69.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 19:50
Apr 22, 2019, 19:50
 
Kxmode wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 18:25:
He already said that. "As is true with most projects when the scope changes so do the timelines, you can't build a castle in the same time you would a woodshed no matter how much money or how many people you have. To try to make some kind of narrative about how we promised the game in two years no matter how big the scope grew is false. Could we have shipped a small scale 30 mission game in the old Wing Commander format in two years? Yes, but that's not the game the community wants or the game we're building." Source

Just more proof what a dishonest and disingenuous fuckstick that clown is. Because he also said way back in 2012...

You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?

Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.

I'm pretty certain a small scale 30 mission game in the old Wing Commander format is precisely what most wanted.

Xactly. And for the PU with its 100 star systems it would have been fine to have maybe one more fleshed out system at launch and 99 2D kiosks like in Freelancer. They could have always converted those 99 systems into full-fledged 3D locations later.

Instead that dipshit chose to do things ass backwards by fleshing out one system to the point that the other 99 systems will never get done (at the same level of detail) in our lifetime. Really smart approach that. Not.
68.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 18:25
Kxmode
 
68.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 18:25
Apr 22, 2019, 18:25
 Kxmode
 
Kosumo wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 17:20:
So that is Chris view on NMS and Anthem - gamers had too high an expectations …… after paying ~$60 for the games.

So Chris, if people have paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars for DLC for an unreleased game, can they have high expectations that they will receive value for that money? What should their expectations be?

Chris, why are you selling stuff that you are unsure of if you can make it work flawlessly? Are you just going to say that if people are not happy with you product, that they should not have wanted so much?

He already said that. "As is true with most projects when the scope changes so do the timelines, you can't build a castle in the same time you would a woodshed no matter how much money or how many people you have. To try to make some kind of narrative about how we promised the game in two years no matter how big the scope grew is false. Could we have shipped a small scale 30 mission game in the old Wing Commander format in two years? Yes, but that's not the game the community wants or the game we're building." Source I'm pretty certain a small scale 30 mission game in the old Wing Commander format is precisely what most wanted. The endless array of stretch goals literally changed what the final game would become. That's not the fault of Gamers. That's the fault of Chris for scope-creeping his product into oblivion after a successful Kickstarter campaign. It is not unlike what BioWare devs did with iteration after iteration of Anthem until they were forced by EA to produce something.
"Listen, Peter... with great horsepower comes... the sickest drifts..." - source
Avatar 18786
67.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 17:20
67.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 17:20
Apr 22, 2019, 17:20
 
So that is Chris view on NMS and Anthem - gamers had too high an expectations …… after paying ~$60 for the games.

So Chris, if people have paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars for DLC for an unreleased game, can they have high expectations that they will receive value for that money? What should their expectations be?


Chris, why are you selling stuff that you are unsure of if you can make it work flawlessly? Are you just going to say that if people are not happy with you product, that they should not have wanted so much?
66.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 16:09
Jivaro
 
66.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 16:09
Apr 22, 2019, 16:09
 Jivaro
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 12:23:
El Pit wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 08:17:
Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem: "So horrible to watch the massive failure of Anthem by Bioware. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to fix it. Must act quickly!"
/and thread

lolololol...
Avatar 55841
65.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 15:41
Kxmode
 
65.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 15:41
Apr 22, 2019, 15:41
 Kxmode
 
You've seen it from No Man's Sky and Sean Murray. Let me put it this way. There's was 13 of them and they built something amazing. They should not have taken the amount of abuse and flack they had when it came out. As a technical challenge, to build something that big with that much stuff and such a small team, I am hats off very impressed by their talent.

The problem was players' expectations were so far beyond that. They imagined all this extra stuff. When they were first showing it maybe there was some stuff that, through iteration or whatever, they couldn't get into the game. They took a huge amount of abuse, they were written off and they just put their heads down and they kept updating, delivering and making it better and better. Now the perception has changed.

Total BS. Where do you think the player's imaginations came from Chris?! It certainly wasn't from the vacuum of space. It came from Sean Murray always LYING about what his product would have for players AT launch. I wish people would stop seeing history through rose-colored glasses now that HG has delivered post-launch updates. The bottom line is No Man's Sky made a lot of money from one man's lie. The adverse reaction to NMS isn't the fault of players but Sean Murray for purposely going down a wrong business path, and it is something Chris Roberts is dangerous crossing for his game. Think of all the promises he has made. How many of those will be in the game at launch, and how quickly will he dismiss them as "oh, they're coming but in an eventual update?" Players are going to expect certain things and they will take issue with Chris if he doesn't deliver. That's besides the fact that they have open communication with the backer community.
"Listen, Peter... with great horsepower comes... the sickest drifts..." - source
Avatar 18786
64.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 15:17
64.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 15:17
Apr 22, 2019, 15:17
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 09:39:
Tom Brady having a losing season is going to be more painful and cause more ire than Blake Bortles having a losing season.

Come on, man. Did you really just compare Chris Roberts to Blake Bortles? What did Blake Bortles ever do to you??
Avatar 15604
63.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 15:13
63.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 15:13
Apr 22, 2019, 15:13
 
Red886 wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 00:13:
Anthem can't even deliver what they show in their "in engine" demo...

pssshhh, player's expectation too high ?

Remember how pissed all the Bioware devs were getting when after that initial trailer everyone went "Yeah that's bullshit. It's never going to look like this." and they were all like "THAT'S ALL IN-ENGINE! THIS IS HOW IT LOOKS!"

And the game comes out, and it doesn't even look HALF of what they showed. Never trust a dev when he says that his game looks like those bullshit trailers they make.
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62.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 14:10
Kxmode
 
62.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 14:10
Apr 22, 2019, 14:10
 Kxmode
 
Oh boy. A thread about No Man's Sky, Chris Roberts, AND Anthem! Just need to toss in Derek Smart, and the journey to the dark side is complete!

Anyhow, with that out of the way, the problem with Anthem is that it was sold as a feature-complete game when in reality it was an incomplete Games-as-a-Service. The problem with No Man's Sky is that Sean Murray repeatedly lied about what would be in the game at launch (in some respects Anthem did the same via it's 2017 E3 demo).

In both cases, gamers are NOT at fault. The fault is squarely on the publisher and studio's shoulders for not managing expectations. The hating on EA is sidelined by the fact that many saw Anthem as coming from the "A" Edmonton BioWare studio, and in the wake of Andromeda. The expectation from gamers was that the Edmonton studio was going to kill it and bring Bioware back to the form.

"He indicates he feels the developers of Star Citizen are avoiding these woes by better communicating with their audience" Because they're under obligation to do so per their Kickstarter pitch. But on that I do agree. Doing that definitely improves communication and helps establish better expectations.
"Listen, Peter... with great horsepower comes... the sickest drifts..." - source
Avatar 18786
61.
 
No subject
Apr 22, 2019, 13:57
61.
No subject Apr 22, 2019, 13:57
Apr 22, 2019, 13:57
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 21, 2019, 12:48:
This begs the question.
What would Derek Smart Derek Smart Derek Smart have done differently. grin
*hides under the bed*
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60.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 13:39
Prez
 
60.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 13:39
Apr 22, 2019, 13:39
 Prez
 
Slashman wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 11:13:
CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 11:10:
jdreyer wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 03:20:
Steele Johnson wrote on Apr 21, 2019, 22:09:
Yes, if EA didn’t have such a long history of douchebaggery, then yeah, maybe more gamers would buy their games. That’s how it works. Thanks for pointing it out, captain obvious.

It's not by accident that you win "Worst Company in the World" two years running, and remain in the top 10 to this day.

To be fair it was only "Worst Company in America" .

I'm not sure that is all that comforting...

It's like the old joke says:

"Why was EA voted worst company in America? Because Ubisoft is in Europe".

To be fair though, while Ubsisoft is certainly awash in its fair share of corporate sleaze, they are far and away better than EA in my view.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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59.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 13:18
59.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 13:18
Apr 22, 2019, 13:18
 
Porn-O-Matic wrote on Apr 22, 2019, 13:12:
Heh... he's not saying anything that I haven't been saying for almost a decade now. Truth bomb: Most gamers today are whiney, spoiled, entitled little bitches who expect far too much from their games.

I totally agree.
But marketing tends to fan this behavior (and absolutely created the "lonely basement incel" stereotype in the late 90s), and is often at least somewhat to blame. With Anthem, it seems an issue of marketing not level-setting, plus Bioware being a name that can't get away with a less-than-stellar release.

With lots of other releases, the anger over something minor often seems like a fan error, and then you wonder why these fans think people have passion for making products for them, and why devs often say they don't want to appease the loud minority and prefer to make games for anyone but them. Anthem, though, seems more like marketing's fault.

58.
 
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem
Apr 22, 2019, 13:12
58.
Re: Chris Roberts on Fixing Anthem Apr 22, 2019, 13:12
Apr 22, 2019, 13:12
 
Heh... he's not saying anything that I haven't been saying for almost a decade now. Truth bomb: Most gamers today are whiney, spoiled, entitled little bitches who expect far too much from their games.
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